Indian Small Arms and Weapons

[Unknowncommando]

View: https://x.com/Kilo_Spec/status/1866843578707947868

 

[username unkown]

Yea just a big piece of Dogshit agreed, you do know how to trigger me so well

Nah
I was just trying to erase your hate for bullpup

 

[ezsasa]

View: https://youtu.be/3VqbXrXZvPM?si=V7G3GH39U_M5J3Ob

Anyone on this subject who holds a firearm licence ? Are there any issues with Indian made ammo or is this guy using cheap ammo ?

i don't hold a licence, but grew up in household with one when i was a kid.

it happens sometimes with some batches, half an mm here and there with the die during manufacturing will cause issue.
he himself is saying that issue is with one batch. it may be getting stuck in a pump action gun, but it may fire well in other rifles. but gun owners are finicky about their guns, most won't take such chances especially at old age.

for Indian gun owner, this is an issue because of the limit on how much ammo they can buy per year.

this happens in U.S as well, for some companies.

could be a different manufacturing process for this cartridge, i would guess issue is somewhere the stage at 41 sec time stamp .
====

How Shotgun Cartridges Is Made ! Production Process​

View: https://youtu.be/vnVjPFe5tSs

 

[Ayan Barat]

Imagine how bad your reputation must have been that no matter who messes up, it's only you getting cursed

IOF ammo is crap

OFB

Those were not OFB ammo

View: https://youtu.be/3VqbXrXZvPM?si=V7G3GH39U_M5J3Ob

He clearly mentioned a name "Shaktimaan"

There's an Arms & Ammunition manufacturing company in Bellary, Karnataka by the name "Dwarka Arms Stores" who uses this brand "Shaktiman" on both the 12 gauge ammo and SBBL/DBBL guns the make. A bit of a backstory about them from a news article "He got into the arms business in the late '60s by converting old guns discarded by the police into usable ones. After he became a partner in Sujatha Arms Factory in neighbouring Guntakal which had a licence to convert 525 arms annually. By 1977 he established Dwarka Arms and merged it with Sujatha and obtained a licence to manufacture 700 breech and muzzle-loading guns a year. Soon he got licences to manufacture three lakh blank cartridges, 3.75 lakh live cartridges and one lakh lead shots. They now manufacture an estimated 60,000 guns every year."

Now as usual, some technical blabbering from me. Making shot-shells is way more easier than making a rifle cartridge. In mechanics we use a terms called "critical dimension", meaning a dimension that if not kept accurate can hinder the proper functioning of a machine. In case of a rifle cartridge pretty much everything is critical; base diameter, shoulder diameter, length, neck diameter, headspace...a diameter of 6.91mm becomes 7mm and you won't be able to chamber a round. Not to mention the extreme pressure at which these operate, around 400MPa. Shotgun shells are much more forgiving as you've just three four critical dimensions and the pressure is way lower at around just 80 or so MPa...so much so that even paper is sufficient to make most part of the case. Thing are made even more easier by the fact that in rifle you'd need to make a bullet with complex geometries made by merging multiple cylinder, tangents and secants then a core of lead with a jacket of copper and everything needs to be in tolerance of 0.1mm otherwise you'd blow your barrel. But in shot-shells you just need a lead sphere of diameter 5mm...that's it.
So because of these there are multiple small scale shot shells manufacturers here in India. And obviously you can't expect Remington or Winchester level quality control from them.

By the way, another interesting or kind of funny fact. In 2013 this Dwarka Arms was raided in connection with making arms and ammunition for selling them to illegal markets. So ya, that's there too

 

[sydsnyper]

View: https://x.com/Kilo_Spec/status/1866843578707947868

Thank god... please remove the vestigial orange handle too...

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Thank god... please remove the vestigial orange handle too...

They even kept the orange carrot charging handle. Any senior officers still hungover from the "wood/Bakelite finish" era are threats to national security and should be discharged immediately.

Spoiler

/s

 

[VictorDelta4]

They even kept the orange carrot charging handle. Any senior officers still hungover from the "wood/Bakelite finish" era are threats to national security and should be discharged immediately.
View attachment 18337

Spoiler

/s

A shorter barrel length and this would be an optimal upgrade for me.

 

[Bleh]

A shorter barrel length..

Why?

 

[VictorDelta4]

Why?

Personal preference to be precise. Absolutely hate the Bayonet slot and the under barrel sling mount.
I would go with a shorter barrel and something like a three pronged muzzle device to mount cans.

 

[username unkown]

Why?

I think 16" would be nice and more compact

 

[ArjunMK1A]

They even kept the orange carrot charging handle. Any senior officers still hungover from the "wood/Bakelite finish" era are threats to national security and should be discharged immediately.
View attachment 18337

Spoiler

/s

The country is not ready for an prodigal return of INSAS in this new avatar on a large scale. Rahul Baba will shout FAB Defense scam.

 

[Bleh]

I think 16" would be nice and more compact

Won't that further increase the stopping power issue of 5.56?

The Bullpup one retains full barrel-length

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yuZbTd6Vl64

 

[Baseplate]

Personal preference to be precise. Absolutely hate the Bayonet slot and the under barrel sling mount.
I would go with a shorter barrel and something like a three pronged muzzle device to mount cans.

If you are using irons without any powered optics , there's no need to go above 16 inches ,heck even 14.5 is enough.
The problem of INSAS's underperformance can just be solved by using better ammunition , instead upon fixating upon long barrel length.

 

[VictorDelta4]

If you are using irons without any powered optics , there's no need to go above 16 inches ,heck even 14.5 is enough.
The problem of INSAS's underperformance can just be solved by using better ammunition , instead upon fixating upon long barrel length.

My preference was purely based on Aesthetics.

 

[Baseplate]

Imagine how bad your reputation must have been that no matter who messes up, it's only you getting cursed


Those were not OFB ammo

He clearly mentioned a name "Shaktimaan"

There's an Arms & Ammunition manufacturing company in Bellary, Karnataka by the name "Dwarka Arms Stores" who uses this brand "Shaktiman" on both the 12 gauge ammo and SBBL/DBBL guns the make. A bit of a backstory about them from a news article "He got into the arms business in the late '60s by converting old guns discarded by the police into usable ones. After he became a partner in Sujatha Arms Factory in neighbouring Guntakal which had a licence to convert 525 arms annually. By 1977 he established Dwarka Arms and merged it with Sujatha and obtained a licence to manufacture 700 breech and muzzle-loading guns a year. Soon he got licences to manufacture three lakh blank cartridges, 3.75 lakh live cartridges and one lakh lead shots. They now manufacture an estimated 60,000 guns every year."

Now as usual, some technical blabbering from me. Making shot-shells is way more easier than making a rifle cartridge. In mechanics we use a terms called "critical dimension", meaning a dimension that if not kept accurate can hinder the proper functioning of a machine. In case of a rifle cartridge pretty much everything is critical; base diameter, shoulder diameter, length, neck diameter, headspace...a diameter of 6.91mm becomes 7mm and you won't be able to chamber a round. Not to mention the extreme pressure at which these operate, around 400MPa. Shotgun shells are much more forgiving as you've just three four critical dimensions and the pressure is way lower at around just 80 or so MPa...so much so that even paper is sufficient to make most part of the case. Thing are made even more easier by the fact that in rifle you'd need to make a bullet with complex geometries made by merging multiple cylinder, tangents and secants then a core of lead with a jacket of copper and everything needs to be in tolerance of 0.1mm otherwise you'd blow your barrel. But in shot-shells you just need a lead sphere of diameter 5mm...that's it.
So because of these there are multiple small scale shot shells manufacturers here in India. And obviously you can't expect Remington or Winchester level quality control from them.

By the way, another interesting or kind of funny fact. In 2013 this Dwarka Arms was raided in connection with making arms and ammunition for selling them to illegal markets. So ya, that's there too

Polymer issue ?
Case is flaring causing it to get stuck .

 

[username unkown]

Won't that further increase the stopping power issue of 5.56?

The Bullpup one retains full barrel-length

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yuZbTd6Vl64

Yes it will increase stopping power issues but not by much it wouldn't matter much considering with 16" you can use suppressor and with 16 " it is compact and more manageble for infantry thease 4inches won't matter much but for dmr role thease 4" will matter
That insas bullpup in my opinion is not great not terrible but thnx to ofb no one is gonna trust it
I think if they refine it might be useful for swat teams and nsg and other paramilitary as we have insas in huge number and if this bullpup kit is not more overprized like fab it would be good enough with proper testing but again ofb legendary image will prevent it doesn't happen and import lobby is just icing on the cake