Indian Special Forces

[Baseplate]

Cliff climber
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https://cliffclimbers.in/product/plate-carrier-qr-it-camo-spl/1ed56431-473c-4c2a-b59f-dc824f50f482

Wow , it's ugly as fuck

 

[VictorDelta4]

Cliff climber
View attachment 25610View attachment 25609

https://cliffclimbers.in/product/plate-carrier-qr-it-camo-spl/1ed56431-473c-4c2a-b59f-dc824f50f482

How the fuck are you supposed to properly shoulder your weapon with this eyesore.

 

[hunfrnc]

Remember that arty drill of jumping so much amd firing rounds..i feel that was bcoz Gora sahab might have felt Indian sipahi too lazy and to make him chust durust.

Thatswhy in every arm focus is only of physicals and not mentals.

I am also shocked how can you not learn when a unit like GSG is coming regularly.

just a point - I have always felt that arty is a very unfit arm.
Next time you see a pic/video of gunner officers/men, specially in a group with soldiers from other arms, notice how they are out of shape, round bodies and faces, even young captains.

 

[hunfrnc]

in COIN

Infantry Warfare is a whole different beast. in Orbat, Equipment, C&C, Logistics.

Readup on how these same RR troops faired in Kargil in the initial days because they were rushed from their COIN postings. They needed to re-orient towards Conventional Combat to be effective and that took time.

Also suggest reading up on the build up time it takes a unit to be ready to be deployed in the field from when they enter Kashmir and the Re-orientation Program when they return to their parent units.

COIN vs Infantry Combat is the difference between a Formula 1 Race and the Dakkar Rally.

"Also suggest reading up on the build up time it takes a unit to be ready to be deployed in the field from when they enter Kashmir and the Re-orientation Program when they return to their parent units."

Can you pls suggest some readings ?

 

[IndiaRising]

@rkhanna sir and you at top

Followed by @Alby and me.

We r the oldies here!!

What is your opinion on the lack of success in Jammu sector for last 3 years? Is it due to lack of troops after Uniform force moved to Ladakh or is that just an excuse used to cover up inability to fight asymmetric warfare effectively against small group of combatants in the dense mountainous jungles? Tactics seem to not have evolved even after numerous losses. Where are we going wrong?

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

What is your opinion on the lack of success in Jammu sector for last 3 years? Is it due to lack of troops after Uniform force moved to Ladakh or is that just an excuse used to cover up inability to fight asymmetric warfare effectively against small group of combatants in the dense mountainous jungles? Tactics seem to not have evolved even after numerous losses. Where are we going wrong?

My opinion is pretty extremist bro and it is that the terrorists evolved their tactics and training and started using thermal sights to which we dont have a answer.

Recently,Maj Sapru also suggested the same thing only in his most recent podcast.

Intel,ssg,isi,ogw is all excuse as it has always been there since late 80s.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

View: https://x.com/swcomd_ia/status/1892247836277825720?s=46

 

[IndiaRising]

My opinion is pretty extremist bro and it is that the terrorists evolved their tactics and training and started using thermal sights to which we dont have a answer.

Recently,Maj Sapru also suggested the same thing only in his most recent podcast.

Intel,ssg,isi,ogw is all excuse as it has always been there since late 80s.

Can you explain how they have evolved their tactics in detail whenever u have time?

 

[rkhanna]

Oh so u must be near my age..i thought u might also be among the younger crowd here who were not even born then.

lol Same. Welcome to the old farts gang

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Can you explain how they have evolved their tactics in detail whenever u have time?

They have studied our tactics very well.

They know when exactly SF/Commandos will come and what for.

They bait our SF bcoz our SF goes like a mad bull in a fight.

Rest they have some good soldiering now like knowing their craft better,using thermal sights,using topograpy to their advantage,knowing Indian Army is night blind and a relaxed sort of a force if everything is peaceful.

The amount of times they have escaped after contact with Para SF is not even funny now.

SSG has trained them and no matter how much u hate them but they have fought against taliban in the last 20 years..their lessons of combat are taught to these terrorists.

Our Army still uses torches to fight,uses illumination,blames and says NVG cant see shit in forests where they should be using thermal and nvg combos,blames ogw coz its the best excuse and says SSG is actively involved everywhere which is not the truth.


Everyone is not a fool right…some of us can see the truth and the lie.

 

[rkhanna]

I have heard though that Indian MARCOS and SAS Water troop cross trained around Diego Garcia, I never understood why not send the SBS instead. But SBS conducts regular exercises with our guys, not so much so during GWOT time cause they were busy as hell and did'nt possibly care enough. We did train with Royal Marines during that time

SBS is extremely small in size and dont do FID as such - they cross train with peer nations only. (AFAIK)

SAS is interesting - didnt know this. till even 10-15 years ago SAS was PNG within the Para/SF circles. Bad blood from the 90s

Para SF are not one entity as a whole…Every unit is doing different shit and figuring out whats best for them.

There is no such thing as centralised testing for procurement.

No Central Selection or training either.

Can you explain how they have evolved their tactics in detail whenever u have time?

Not rocket science.

Neccecity is the mother of all Inventions. A smaller guerilla force will always be innovative compared to a more ungainly large organization. They have changed tactics in how they use the local population, they cache sites across the valley for help in their Hit and Run jobs. Use of Night Vision to move around and flank the Indian Force that is not really night capable. Better ELINT/EW/SIGNALS/COMMS to jam our efforts.

The hardest part of the insurgent is actually getting across the LOC which is getting tighter and tighter by the shere tech we have on the LOC.

We too had many innovative tactics in the 90s. @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR father himself could write 2-3 books on those. Lakhwanis being one of them.


One of things I can never understand - if you see nat geo documentaries. Researchers put motion activated camera's throughout the forest to capture animals on camera to study them. What prevents us from puting these up all across the known valleys/routes/watering holes/cave complexes - simply as a canary in the coalmine if nothing else. Will cost 20-30 core to do it well and grid off the wildnerness.

Can you pls suggest some readings ?

Let me come back to you but if you dig through google you may find some interviews in news publications

This is an okay book:

The Forgotten Face of the Guardians of the valley "Rashtriya Rifles - INDIAN ARMY" (Paperback, Haroon Imtiaz)

 

[rkhanna]

Russian SSO - Syria - 2017

 

[Airborne22]

What is your opinion on the lack of success in Jammu sector for last 3 years? Is it due to lack of troops after Uniform force moved to Ladakh or is that just an excuse used to cover up inability to fight asymmetric warfare effectively against small group of combatants in the dense mountainous jungles? Tactics seem to not have evolved even after numerous losses. Where are we going wrong?

Current scenario in Jammu division is basically the symptoms of pakistan being desperate. The terrorists are over-reliant on OGW networks and civilian populace, the situation is as such that even when we smack one OGW the terror incidents in that area drop down by 95%. They were given a golden opportunity when army vacated posts in the div. There are places with virtually no army/security forces presence currently where the buildup of terrorists is the most. Then comes the fact that we need to comb out a lot of this area on foot, the field craft skills of the newer batch of FT are exceptional hence their ability to evade multiple Drone covers is pretty much visible. The key to solve this whole problem is to take it slow and wait for the opportune time to strike.

 

[IndiaRising]

My opinion is pretty extremist bro and it is that the terrorists evolved their tactics and training and started using thermal sights to which we dont have a answer.

Recently,Maj Sapru also suggested the same thing only in his most recent podcast.

Intel,ssg,isi,ogw is all excuse as it has always been there since late 80s.

Which podcast?

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

33:40

Our casualties are head shots.

Precision firing..their craft..movement accuracy is very good.

@IndiaRising



View: https://youtu.be/LAupmQSfdfE?si=ibMS_zewRounqAuJ

 

[Nightshade1992]

How the fuck are you supposed to properly shoulder your weapon with this eyesore.

Yahi hota hai when they bring in white label products from China. Not a single ounce of R&D.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

What I want SPG to look like one day. Mono drabs or all black, ballistic helmets with comtacs, plate carriers, waist holsters with proper utility belts. Alien stuff to the Army, but can the cabinet secretariat at least get their stuff together.


This makes no sense. If the mandate is to stand out and attract attention to thwart shenanigans, why even wear heavy armor. And if they are expecting action, why aren't they using helmets and are standing out like sore thumbs.

Nothing makes sense, the awkward drop leg holsters, the cartoonish biker pads; larpers in America are more motivated.

Spoiler

Thanks for coming to my semi-weekly SPG rant

 

[Unknowncommando]

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

What I want SPG to look like one day. Mono drabs or all black, ballistic helmets with comtacs, plate carriers, waist holsters with proper utility belts. Alien stuff to the Army, but can the cabinet secretariat at least get their stuff together.
View attachment 25646 View attachment 25649

This makes no sense. If the mandate is to stand out and attract attention to thwart shenanigans, why even wear heavy armor. And if they are expecting action, why aren't they using helmets and are standing out like sore thumbs.
View attachment 25648
Nothing makes sense, the awkward drop leg holsters, the cartoonish biker pads; larpers in America are more motivated.

Spoiler

Thanks for coming to my semi-weekly SPG rant

I honestly expected the SPG to be at that level but i am really shocked to see that hardly anything has changed.

Maybe its because of Modi as he is not very fond of SPG..i also feel like SPG had more powers under Congress because of their history of assassinations.

13-14 years ago i met a top SPG guy coming in from Mhow side in a train seated next to me..asked me about my family background and profession and then opened up saying what he did.

He gave me a lot of insights which i had shared in the forum back in the day..and he was very positive about future developments but hardly anything has changed post that.

NSG is the second unit i was hopeful from..i have no hope from Para or Army coz i believe the officers dont have it in them ..i am sorry to say that.

Thatswhy in Kumb mela shoot of NSG i totally lost it and ever since i have been critical bcoz i had hopes from them.

 

[Jedi Operator]

SBS is extremely small in size and dont do FID as such - they cross train with peer nations only. (AFAIK)

SAS is interesting - didnt know this. till even 10-15 years ago SAS was PNG within the Para/SF circles. Bad blood from the 90s



No Central Selection or training either.



Not rocket science.

Neccecity is the mother of all Inventions. A smaller guerilla force will always be innovative compared to a more ungainly large organization. They have changed tactics in how they use the local population, they cache sites across the valley for help in their Hit and Run jobs. Use of Night Vision to move around and flank the Indian Force that is not really night capable. Better ELINT/EW/SIGNALS/COMMS to jam our efforts.

The hardest part of the insurgent is actually getting across the LOC which is getting tighter and tighter by the shere tech we have on the LOC.

We too had many innovative tactics in the 90s. @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR father himself could write 2-3 books on those. Lakhwanis being one of them.


One of things I can never understand - if you see nat geo documentaries. Researchers put motion activated camera's throughout the forest to capture animals on camera to study them. What prevents us from puting these up all across the known valleys/routes/watering holes/cave complexes - simply as a canary in the coalmine if nothing else. Will cost 20-30 core to do it well and grid off the wildnerness.




Let me come back to you but if you dig through google you may find some interviews in news publications

This is an okay book:

The Forgotten Face of the Guardians of the valley "Rashtriya Rifles - INDIAN ARMY" (Paperback, Haroon Imtiaz)

just for getting the context, what's PNG
Now, the thing is, if prior to GWOT, SBS did not see much action as the SAS, infact many SBS guys would join units like 14 Int so that they can do some work. SBS taught Maritime counter terrorism to nearly everyone, read Duncan Falconer's First into Action to get an idea.
I agree they are quite a small force so in GWOT era they were hell of busy but SBS(R) was still doing alot of FIDs across.

One more thing about UKSF is, that being so broad their rotation cycle helps them alot, and this info you can get anywhere on a reliable source, I dont know the correct order but it's something like this

6 months - predeployment
6 months - deployment
6 months - counter-terrorism/special projects team/counter revolutionary warfare wing role
6 months - on contingency call/standby for world wide contingencies