Indian Special Forces

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

You should read up on how the Unit was stood up. They lost an insane number of Airframes and some pilots in the early days - just developing their night assault capability

I also believe that when they forward deploy a Unit of A10s and Spectres are earmarked for them.

I heard after our c130 crashed due to stall in low flying such ops were discontinued for some time?

Are they trainjng for the same now?

 

[rkhanna]

I heard after our c130 crashed due to stall in low flying such ops were discontinued for some time?

Are they trainjng for the same now?

No clue Honestly. Has the COI concluded?

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

No clue Honestly. Has the COI concluded?

I have no idea …years ago i was flying with a fauji who explained me exactly how the stall happened.

When the crash happened over Gwalior i was flying over Bhopal that exact time.

So kinda remember that day really well.

 

[VictorDelta4]

No. Do you want our SF boys to start surrendering just like the French?

Stop drinking that Hollywood koolaid man.

 

[spindrift]

Stop drinking that Hollywood koolaid man.

Didn't you as in the Germans got them to surrender in 1940?

 

[VictorDelta4]

Didn't you as in the Germans got them to surrender in 1940?

Issues between Germany and France go way back before the 1940 Armistice. And yes the French did do that in the Northern areas, so did other countries when they were steamrolled. However this whole French only surrender is an American propaganda as they never talk or let anyone talk about the French resistance or the units that under the command of CDG fought against the Wehrmacht. They were doing this with the Brits way before the Americans even joined the conflict.

 

[me_itsme]

View: https://x.com/i/status/1893910578004983832

Anyone know about this order he is talking about?

 

[rkhanna]

Issues between Germany and France go way back before the 1940 Armistice. And yes the French did do that in the Northern areas, so did other countries when they were steamrolled. However this whole French only surrender is an American propaganda as they never talk or let anyone talk about the French resistance or the units that under the command of CDG fought against the Wehrmacht. They were doing this with the Brits way before the Americans even joined the conflict.

Infact on a Pan European basis -France has one of the more impressive military histories. In the last ~500 years in the over 100+ European conflicts. France has been a part of ~50% - more than any other country.

A case can be made that France has been the most (if not one of) belligerent country in History.


"From the 169 most important world battles fought since 387 BC, France has won 109, lost 49 and drawn 10"
Source: The Cash Nexus: Money and Power in the Modern World, 1700-2000

 

[IWIarad11]

Coming back to Indian SF, I think 1 Para has one of the most interesting histories.

While anyone who's synonymous with army SF, automatically leans towards 9 given the organic social media fandom it has gathered post 2016, 1 Para has quietly been in the shadows.

While 9 was the first SF unit, 1's origin story is very interesting. Originally trained for CQB, it went on to raise NSG.

The direct association with SFTS also helped ig. They even religiously cross trained with foreign SF back in the day.

2 interesting public revelations:

1. Their OG logo was something along the lines of a wild bear scratching its bloody claws on a trunk ~ mentioned by Brig Thapa

2. Their unit mascot was a literal GOAT named 'Naal' during Op Pawan ~ recollected by Maj Sapru

1 has also been known for quiet, clean ops with relatively less medallion as compared to 9's perennial daredevilry.

Also 1 used to have the best weapon profiling in the early 90s - so much so that other SF units had to request the Corps commander to get similar kits (they're the only ones to get imported BPJs in Lanka).

Plus all the officers from 1 seen on podcasts seem to be erudites while being absolutely humble giving an indication that were fine craftsmen of their trade in their past years.

To sum it up, "A guy wants to join 9 when he's a boy and wants to join 1 when he becomes a man."

Overall very intriguing. Their PPE and mandate has suffered due to being under Western Cmd instead of NC in the last decade or so.

This is all I've read/heard about them - feel free to add unheard stories and nuggets about them if you know any.

@Airborne22 @Arad Operator @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Jedi Operator @rkhanna @KumaoniReborn

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Issues between Germany and France go way back before the 1940 Armistice. And yes the French did do that in the Northern areas, so did other countries when they were steamrolled. However this whole French only surrender is an American propaganda as they never talk or let anyone talk about the French resistance or the units that under the command of CDG fought against the Wehrmacht. They were doing this with the Brits way before the Americans even joined the conflict.

I am sorry but i find US Indians very amusing and not at all interested in learning from OUR History…

Who are we…Someone who was a slave for 190 years under the Raj.

If you take hindutva as a cause and Bharat Desh as a hindu land..then the slavery becomes 1000 years old.

Before Gora Pakodas we had no military sense…our chaavnis used to be dirty and not well arranged…goras made them well made cantts.

Goras trained our soldiers in marching and parades…there was no concept of the hand and feet movement before that.

Then, modern arty and regtt system is all goras including the French who throughout history faught in the subcontinent with the Dutch,Portuguese and English.

Who are WE to make fun of French.

 

[rkhanna]

Coming back to Indian SF, I think 1 Para has one of the most interesting histories.

While anyone who's synonymous with army SF, automatically leans towards 9 given the organic social media fandom it has gathered post 2016, 1 Para has quietly been in the shadows.

While 9 was the first SF unit, 1's origin story is very interesting. Originally trained for CQB, it went on to raise NSG.

The direct association with SFTS also helped ig. They even religiously cross trained with foreign SF back in the day.

2 interesting public revelations:

1. Their OG logo was something along the lines of a wild bear scratching its bloody claws on a trunk ~ mentioned by Brig Thapa

2. Their unit mascot was a literal GOAT named 'Naal' during Op Pawan ~ recollected by Maj Sapru

1 has also been known for quiet, clean ops with relatively less medallion as compared to 9's perennial daredevilry.

Also 1 used to have the best weapon profiling in the early 90s - so much so that other SF units had to request the core commander to get similar kits (they're the only ones to get imported BPJs in Lanka).

Plus all the officers from 1 seen on podcasts seem to be erudites while being absolutely humble giving an indication that were fine craftsmen of their trade in their past years.

To sum it up, "A guy wants to join 9 when he's a boy and wants to join 1 when he becomes a man."

Overall very intriguing. Their PPE and mandate has suffered due to being under Western Cmd instead of NC in the last decade or so.

This is all I've read/heard about them - feel free to add unheard stories and nuggets about them if you know any.

@Airborne22 @Arad Operator @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Jedi Operator @rkhanna @KumaoniReborn

100%

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Coming back to Indian SF, I think 1 Para has one of the most interesting histories.

While anyone who's synonymous with army SF, automatically leans towards 9 given the organic social media fandom it has gathered post 2016, 1 Para has quietly been in the shadows.

While 9 was the first SF unit, 1's origin story is very interesting. Originally trained for CQB, it went on to raise NSG.

The direct association with SFTS also helped ig. They even religiously cross trained with foreign SF back in the day.

2 interesting public revelations:

1. Their OG logo was something along the lines of a wild bear scratching its bloody claws on a trunk ~ mentioned by Brig Thapa

2. Their unit mascot was a literal GOAT named 'Naal' during Op Pawan ~ recollected by Maj Sapru

1 has also been known for quiet, clean ops with relatively less medallion as compared to 9's perennial daredevilry.

Also 1 used to have the best weapon profiling in the early 90s - so much so that other SF units had to request the core commander to get similar kits (they're the only ones to get imported BPJs in Lanka).

Plus all the officers from 1 seen on podcasts seem to be erudites while being absolutely humble giving an indication that were fine craftsmen of their trade in their past years.

To sum it up, "A guy wants to join 9 when he's a boy and wants to join 1 when he becomes a man."

Overall very intriguing. Their PPE and mandate has suffered due to being under Western Cmd instead of NC in the last decade or so.

This is all I've read/heard about them - feel free to add unheard stories and nuggets about them if you know any.

@Airborne22 @Arad Operator @COLDHEARTED AVIATOR @Jedi Operator @rkhanna @KumaoniReborn

Excellent post!

(Very humbly want to point out and maybe it got into typo by auto correct..

*Corps Commander for Core commander)

 

[IWIarad11]

Excellent post!

(Very humbly want to point out and maybe it got into typo by auto correct..

*Corps Commander for Core commander)

Yes, I was confused between the 2. Thanks!

 

[rkhanna]

I am sorry but i find US Indians very amusing and not at all interested in learning from OUR History…

Who are we…Someone who was a slave for 190 years under the Raj.

If you take hindutva as a cause and Bharat Desh as a hindu land..then the slavery becomes 1000 years old.

Before Gora Pakodas we had no military sense…our chaavnis used to be dirty and not well arranged…goras made them well made cantts.

Goras trained our soldiers in marching and parades…there was no concept of the hand and feet movement before that.

Then, modern arty and regtt system is all goras including the French who throughout history faught in the subcontinent with the Dutch,Portuguese and English.

Who are WE to make fun of French.

Agree with your sentiment but lol just to argue for the sake of it

1. Our concept of slavery is a moving target. Dravadians, Tribals, Caste system et al - so IMO its an essentially counter-productive argument that will always move us AWAY from national unity not towards it. There will always be some group in the Subcontinent that is agrieved over some historical/mythical injustice. Its high time we grew up drew a line in 1947 and build ourselves from there.

2. Ancient and Middle Ages India had outstanding militaries and tacticians - our Military Orbats ofcourse we suited for fighting in the plains and low lands - We struggled with new tech and tactics (The fast moving Mauraders from the west and the Guns from Europe)
- We had one of THE most impressive Naval Traditions (Chola's et al) (pound for pound across Human History) (This whole facination with Shivaji is starting to get irritating)
- the Rajputs held the Turks/Mughals at bay for nearly 600 years before that Damn broke.

Why did that happen? - [the Turks and Persians were a worldy people - they accumalated vast knowledge from all over the world and incorporated it into their way of life and militaries - they saw so much conflict in so many varied places that they evolved. We did not. We didnt care to. Evolution stopped somewhere in the start of the second millenia.

3. The Gora's need to march in place came from training their soldiers (illiterate) on advanced Mechanical weapons - needed to free the mind of will and replace it with muscle memory. They imported their training and SOP to us - just the same way they imported their Victorian Era Conservatism to our society (which we call Sanskriti today) - They evolved out of all that - we havnt.

4. In WWII (Burma) the British officers were absolutely useless and if it wasnt for the Indian officers the Japanese would have been within our borders. Even in WWI (Haifa liberation, Baghdad Liberation), Indian Soldiers were outstanding

Question: Why did the British and Mughals/Turks beat us - varied answers/theories but few points to ponder

1. We were never ONE - there as no US - the british for example were able to use the local populace to oppress and govern the rest. - Ever know what the word Bahadur comes from? It was a name for a british govt Lacky. The Marwaris, Sindhi's, Parsis - all made shit load of money alongside the british. Each king/princling looked at the East India company as allies (and money bags) to be used against their neighbour (enemy)

- The Subcontinent - if any of you cares to do so - do a DNA geneology study of yourself - has genes from the steppes to the tigris and the sienne to the Ganga. The Subcontinent nearly bankrupted the Romans (twice?) due to the trade imbalanace. Kaballa was sacked by Mohammad because it was actually a Vedic place (Kurds are decendents of the people of the Subcontinent)

- Central Asian, Persian, Turk, Arab, Hun, European - the Subcontinent is one of the most transitional cultural land mass there has ever been from a nonnative/ indiginious perspective.

- The Subcontinent was one of THE most fertile parts of the world due to the ancient civilization a very wealthy place (~27% of the worlds GDP when the britsh came) - a very juicy fruit for invaders and no unifying factor protecting it.

2. We have an inherently built in supriority complex and prevents us from exploring, learning, discovering. In the middle ages (BEFORE the Mughals) the evolution of science had effectively stopped in India and was thriving in Iran, Bagdad, Central Asia - they learned from our frigging texts and expanded.

We believed (i Mean the ruling class - brahmin, kastriya) that we were the center of the universe and the vedas were exact and complete knowledge. nothing more to be learnt. [ see similar attitudes across most parts of life in India today also]

IMO the Mughals invasiosn coincided with the end of the Golden Era of the Subcontinent .

Suggested Reading for a different perspective of Ancient/Middle Ages of the Subcontinent

Al-Biruni - Travelled to India in 1017 wrote - Tārīkh al-Hind

India (Al-Biruni) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Marco Polo - 1200s-1300s - The Customs of the Kingdoms of India

The Above books are to be read with a pinch of salt ofcourse (as all historical texts should be) but make for fascinating reading

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Agree with your sentiment but lol just to argue for the sake of it

1. Our concept of slavery is a moving target. Dravadians, Tribals, Caste system et al - so IMO its an essentially counter-productive argument that will always move us AWAY from national unity not towards it. There will always be some group in the Subcontinent that is agrieved over some historical/mythical injustice. Its high time we grew up drew a line in 1947 and build ourselves from there.

2. Ancient and Middle Ages India had outstanding militaries and tacticians - our Military Orbats ofcourse we suited for fighting in the plains and low lands - We struggled with new tech and tactics (The fast moving Mauraders from the west and the Guns from Europe)
- We had one of THE most impressive Naval Traditions (Chola's et al) (pound for pound across Human History) (This whole facination with Shivaji is starting to get irritating)
- the Rajputs held the Turks/Mughals at bay for nearly 600 years before that Damn broke.

Why did that happen? - [the Turks and Persians were a worldy people - they accumalated vast knowledge from all over the world and incorporated it into their way of life and militaries - they saw so much conflict in so many varied places that they evolved. We did not. We didnt care to. Evolution stopped somewhere in the start of the second millenia.

3. The Gora's need to march in place came from training their soldiers (illiterate) on advanced Mechanical weapons - needed to free the mind of will and replace it with muscle memory. They imported their training and SOP to us - just the same way they imported their Victorian Era Conservatism to our society (which we call Sanskriti today) - They evolved out of all that - we havnt.

4. In WWII (Burma) the British officers were absolutely useless and if it wasnt for the Indian officers the Japanese would have been within our borders. Even in WWI (Haifa liberation, Baghdad Liberation), Indian Soldiers were outstanding

Question: Why did the British and Mughals/Turks beat us - varied answers/theories but few points to ponder

1. We were never ONE - there as no US - the british for example were able to use the local populace to oppress and govern the rest. - Ever know what the word Bahadur comes from? It was a name for a british govt Lacky. The Marwaris, Sindhi's, Parsis - all made shit load of money alongside the british. Each king/princling looked at the East India company as allies (and money bags) to be used against their neighbour (enemy)

- The Subcontinent - if any of you cares to do so - do a DNA geneology study of yourself - has genes from the steppes to the tigris and the sienne to the Ganga. The Subcontinent nearly bankrupted the Romans (twice?) due to the trade imbalanace. Kaballa was sacked by Mohammad because it was actually a Vedic place (Kurds are decendents of the people of the Subcontinent)

- Central Asian, Persian, Turk, Arab, Hun, European - the Subcontinent is one of the most transitional cultural land mass there has ever been from a nonnative/ indiginious perspective.

- The Subcontinent was one of THE most fertile parts of the world due to the ancient civilization a very wealthy place (~27% of the worlds GDP when the britsh came) - a very juicy fruit for invaders and no unifying factor protecting it.

2. We have an inherently built in supriority complex and prevents us from exploring, learning, discovering. In the middle ages (BEFORE the Mughals) the evolution of science had effectively stopped in India and was thriving in Iran, Bagdad, Central Asia - they learned from our frigging texts and expanded.

We believed (i Mean the ruling class - brahmin, kastriya) that we were the center of the universe and the vedas were exact and complete knowledge. nothing more to be learnt. [ see similar attitudes across most parts of life in India today also]

IMO the Mughals invasiosn coincided with the end of the Golden Era of the Subcontinent .

Suggested Reading for a different perspective of Ancient/Middle Ages of the Subcontinent

Al-Biruni - Travelled to India in 1017 wrote - Tārīkh al-Hind

India (Al-Biruni) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Marco Polo - 1200s-1300s - The Customs of the Kingdoms of India

The Above books are to be read with a pinch of salt ofcourse (as all historical texts should be) but make for fascinating reading

Ahhh ok for the sake of argument too i will reply as it is a very heavy topic with varied kind of perspectives..and as a apolitical and agnostic person i dont carry heavy emotions for this topic.

I like to think of India from the time of Ramayana and Mahabharata.

A ancient hindu civilisation which had its roots to modern day Cambodia,Thailand and Indonesia thanks to Cholas.

You know 10 years ago i went to Cambodia to see Angkor Wat with my spanish gf back then…i was thinking i would catch up on some sleep and sleep on the way to Siem Reap but my gf would wake me up many times with things like..”honey look Vishnuuuuu…Look Ganesha honeey…Look Shivaaaaa”

There was literally so much indian culture all the way from Phnom Penh until we reached Siem Reap.

And when we reached Ankor Vat it was another level altogether…Same for Indoneasia and Thailand with so many Hindus living there even now.

So my point is we were so much successful only because of our superior military,navy and administration power.

There is a famous story idk if it was Cambodia or Indoneasia that a young indian tamil guy who was royalty in Tamil Nadu along with a small Army defeated the local Army as soon as he landed on their soil and then the king married his daughter and he became the king of that place.

He later on went to setup administration and a strong Army and Navy there.

I am a Rajput myself and i think the Rajputs got into a lot of ego clashes and could never unite.Some of us even got into too much addictions to ever be as ambitious as Alexander or the Cholas.

You are right we could never be one because had we been one things would have looked very different..even now you look at Kannadiga and Marathi fighting,then that Kannadiga will fight with Tamil..Tamil will fight with Malayali…And this is just the southern part lol..even dravidism cannot unite 4 states!!!

Regarding bravery under British Officers or command i would call that as slavery too.

Which was the Army that fired bullets in Jallianwala bagh on unarmed civilians?…The Gurkha Rifles!!

Thats what slavery does to you.

Lastly,The part where you say India was in itself self reliant and need not expand is the classic case of modern day USA but it doesnt do the policies we did because it knows if you want to lead or be secure then you have to be in the driving seat all the time.

In the end i believe if after Guptas we had more kings that followed who could unite us which btw is not easy then the history would be a different story.

I just shared my opinion based on the history i could remember from the school days..if i went wrong on facts then kindly excuse me.

 

[rkhanna]

Ahhh ok for the sake of argument too i will reply as it is a very heavy topic with varied kind of perspectives..and as a apolitical and agnostic person i dont carry heavy emotions for this topic.

I like to think of India from the time of Ramayana and Mahabharata.

A ancient hindu civilisation which had its roots to modern day Cambodia,Thailand and Indonesia thanks to Cholas.

You know 10 years ago i went to Cambodia to see Ankor Vat with my spanish gf back then…i was thinking i would catch up on some sleep and sleep on the way to Siem Reap but my gf would wake me up many times with things like..”honey look Vishnuuuuu…Look Ganesha honeey…Look Shivaaaaa”

There was literally so much indian culture all the way from Phnom Penh until we reached Siem Reap.

And when we reached Ankor Vat it was another level altogether…Same for Indoneasia and Thailand with so many Hindus living there even now.

So my point is we were so much successful only because of our superior military,navy and administration power.

There is a famous story idk if it was Cambodia or Indoneasia that a young indian tamil guy who was royalty in Tamil Nadu along with a small Army defeated the local Army as soon as he landed on their soil and then the king married his daughter and he became the king of that place.

He later on went to setup administration and a strong Army and Navy there.

I am a Rajput myself and i think the Rajputs got into a lot of ego clashes and could never unite.Some of us even got into too much addictions to ever be as ambitious as Alexander or the Cholas.

You are right we could never be one because had we been one things would have looked very different..even now you look at Kannadiga and Marathi fighting,then that Kannadiga will fight with Tamil..Tamil will fight with Malayali…And this is just the southern part lol..even dravidism cannot unite 4 states!!!

Regarding bravery under British Officers or command i would call that as slavery too.

Which was the Army that fired bullets in Jallianwala bagh on unarmed civilians?…The Gurkha Rifles!!

Thats what slavery does to you.

Lastly,The part where you say India was in itself self reliant and need not expand is the classic case of modern day USA but it doesnt do the policies we did because it knows if you want to lead or be secure then you have to be in the driving seat all the time.

In the end i believe if after Guptas we had more kings that followed who could unite us which btw is not easy then the history would be a different story.

I just shared my opinion based on the history i could remember from the school days..if i went wrong on facts then kindly excuse me.

Agreed 100% ditto thoughts.

The Vedic Culture of South East Asia was bang in the middle of what I call the Golden Era of the Subcontinent. Then we got fat, lazy and grew a massive Superiority Complex. We stopped evolving. Culturally, Scientifically, Militarily. (again with reference to the 2 books i mentioned above - do read from a curisosity perspective)

I am glad you mentioned the Ramayan/Mahabharat - like you being apolitical and athiest I can read these texts out of pure curiosity - you can almost see the change of Indian Societal psycological mindset and conventions witht he different versions of the Ramayan. The change from in Valmiki's Ramayan - to Tulsidas's Ramayan is stark progression into rigidity and conservatism. Ancient India worshipped both Ram and Ravann

WRT to the British and Indian soldiers - very fair. but things to consider - I see Indian involvement and BRitish rule in India in 3 Phases.

1. East India Company 1600 - 1850s [Very very long post on this]
2. British Royal Rule (Raj) 1850s-1947 [ Shorter post but basically the brutality of this is what we use to colour the whole of British history in India]
3. WWII India - where Indians fought both on the side of the axis and allies - The Very indians who were against Facism in Europe were the same Indians who also apposed British Rule.

each phase requires different nuance.

The Mauryas, Chola's and Gupta's were something else.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Agreed 100% ditto thoughts.

The Vedic Culture of South East Asia was bang in the middle of what I call the Golden Era of the Subcontinent. Then we got fat, lazy and grew a massive Superiority Complex. We stopped evolving. Culturally, Scientifically, Militarily. (again with reference to the 2 books i mentioned above - do read from a curisosity perspective)

I am glad you mentioned the Ramayan/Mahabharat - like you being apolitical and athiest I can read these texts out of pure curiosity - you can almost see the change of Indian Societal psycological mindset and conventions witht he different versions of the Ramayan. The change from in Valmiki's Ramayan - to Tulsidas's Ramayan is stark progression into rigidity and conservatism. Ancient India worshipped both Ram and Ravann

WRT to the British and Indian soldiers - very fair. but things to consider - I see Indian involvement and BRitish rule in India in 3 Phases.

1. East India Company 1600 - 1850s [Very very long post on this]
2. British Royal Rule (Raj) 1850s-1947 [ Shorter post but basically the brutality of this is what we use to colour the whole of British history in India]
3. WWII India - where Indians fought both on the side of the axis and allies - The Very indians who were against Facism in Europe were the same Indians who also apposed British Rule.

each phase requires different nuance.

The Mauryas, Chola's and Gupta's were something else.

Agreed sir just a small correction i am agnostic not atheist!

And luckily our Hindu gods say…A intelligent questioner is better than a ignorant believer.