Indo-China Border & LAC

[RDXChauhan]

At some local areas they will steamroll (DBO, remote Arunachal valleys), and in some areas we will steamroll (Himachal, Sikkim).

In the long run, it will be a meat grinder, favouring India, simply because we have more military-aged men ready to serve the country willingly, unlike China. But then we are talking about WW2-level drafting and casaulties which the world has never seen before.

How would our artillery fare against theirs?

 

[Freedom Thru Firepower]

There is no real substance for India-China enmity. In 1962, Nehru was acting like a CIA agent, hosting CIA planes & setting up Tibet government in exile which made China angry.

U.S. planes used Indian airbase to snoop on China

India News:U.S. planes used Indian airbase to snoop on China

www.thehindu.com

If it was just about helping, India could have given refuge to Tibetans but Nehru went one step further to set up Tibet govt in exile. To make things worse, Nehru pursued a forward policy seeing Chinese problems with Tibet which finally made China react. Although Nehru was unelected leader installed by UK, it was Indians fault to be completely stupid and accept him as authority. Blaming China is simply being unreasonable and arbitrary. How would India act if China sets up Kashmiri govt in exile? This is also why Vajpayee govt accepted Chinese control of Tibet and ended the annoyance.

As for 2020 clashes, it was not armed clashes but with sticks and stones and unlikely to be commanded by either of the leadership (no one will command their soldiers to fight with sticks). Also, India was trying to settle border dispute by sneakily trying to conquer additional peaks rather than China trying to conquer inch by inch, although this time it was not at the behest of CIA but just to secure the borders as the borders is closer to Indian population centre than Chinese. This is also why neither China nor India publish any info nor made any statement on the actual background of the clashes and it was all just media hype.

The complexity in India-China relationship arises because of strategic interest on Pakistan & middle east, mainly for the oil needs. India does not like anyone helping pakistan but China has no other way of getting its oil interests secured. India is wary of China getting too close to Pakistan & middle east to get major hold of oil supply and replace USA which will act as a continued external interference to Indian affairs with just the external agent switched from USA to China.

India-China has no cultural enmity as both are ancient civilisations and have been commonly harmed by the west. India is currently following a policy of neutrality with China. This is also why India refused to host Uighur separatists or support Hong Kong protests- both were western sponsored & India wanted no part in it. But India does not want China to be the next superpower by replacing USA's dominance in middle east but instead wants a multipolar world. Hence India won't ally with China either. This is why Jaishankar termed relation with China as "complex". It is not rivalry, enmity but simply greater geopolitical game taht transcends bilateral relations.

So, coming to war scenarios, China is no real threat to India. Indian 2 fronts are Pakistan & Bangladesh, not China. BD is small but its people have massive hatred against India and is an easy target for foreign agencies to set up anti-India sentiments. However, India uses China's name as a dummy target to justify defence developments and procurements as one can't really use weaklings like Pakistan or BD to build up major capabilities. But its is just a ploy/hype rather than real threat.

What bullshit !

@Mods take action

 

[Hari Sud]

How would our artillery fare against theirs?

DBO is at 17,000 feet with mountain around and well connected to resupply today than 10 years back or in 1962. It is next to impossible to steam roll at that place. Chinese know that but our young friends in this forum do not know that.

In and around Sikkim….. in the Chumbi valley, Chinese know their weakness as they are in a valley and Indian troops at heights with artillery positioned all around the valley. Chinese will never dare that. It will be a suicide for them. It will be a repeat of 1967 where well placed artillery forced them retreat 5 kms.

In Arunachal Pradesh, with very little valleys in the LAC area where well provisioned Indian troops are waiting to avenge 1962. All the Indian troops is to cross the passes into lower heights in an attack mode and then well maintained Indian troops will close the passes and block their retreat and their supply line hence force a large scale surrender. Chinese know that hence will not even dare.

 

[125mm_Smoothbore]

There is no real substance for India-China enmity. In 1962, Nehru was acting like a CIA agent, hosting CIA planes & setting up Tibet government in exile which made China angry.

U.S. planes used Indian airbase to snoop on China

India News:U.S. planes used Indian airbase to snoop on China

www.thehindu.com

If it was just about helping, India could have given refuge to Tibetans but Nehru went one step further to set up Tibet govt in exile. To make things worse, Nehru pursued a forward policy seeing Chinese problems with Tibet which finally made China react. Although Nehru was unelected leader installed by UK, it was Indians fault to be completely stupid and accept him as authority. Blaming China is simply being unreasonable and arbitrary. How would India act if China sets up Kashmiri govt in exile? This is also why Vajpayee govt accepted Chinese control of Tibet and ended the annoyance.

As for 2020 clashes, it was not armed clashes but with sticks and stones and unlikely to be commanded by either of the leadership (no one will command their soldiers to fight with sticks). Also, India was trying to settle border dispute by sneakily trying to conquer additional peaks rather than China trying to conquer inch by inch, although this time it was not at the behest of CIA but just to secure the borders as the borders is closer to Indian population centre than Chinese. This is also why neither China nor India publish any info nor made any statement on the actual background of the clashes and it was all just media hype.

The complexity in India-China relationship arises because of strategic interest on Pakistan & middle east, mainly for the oil needs. India does not like anyone helping pakistan but China has no other way of getting its oil interests secured. India is wary of China getting too close to Pakistan & middle east to get major hold of oil supply and replace USA which will act as a continued external interference to Indian affairs with just the external agent switched from USA to China.

India-China has no cultural enmity as both are ancient civilisations and have been commonly harmed by the west. India is currently following a policy of neutrality with China. This is also why India refused to host Uighur separatists or support Hong Kong protests- both were western sponsored & India wanted no part in it. But India does not want China to be the next superpower by replacing USA's dominance in middle east but instead wants a multipolar world. Hence India won't ally with China either. This is why Jaishankar termed relation with China as "complex". It is not rivalry, enmity but simply greater geopolitical game taht transcends bilateral relations.

So, coming to war scenarios, China is no real threat to India. Indian 2 fronts are Pakistan & Bangladesh, not China. BD is small but its people have massive hatred against India and is an easy target for foreign agencies to set up anti-India sentiments. However, India uses China's name as a dummy target to justify defence developments and procurements as one can't really use weaklings like Pakistan or BD to build up major capabilities. But its is just a ploy/hype rather than real threat.

 

[Ultraman]

DBO is at 17,000 feet with mountain around and well connected to resupply today than 10 years back or in 1962. It is next to impossible to steam roll at that place. Chinese know that but our young friends in this forum do not know that.

In and around Sikkim….. in the Chumbi valley, Chinese know their weakness as they are in a valley and Indian troops at heights with artillery positioned all around the valley. Chinese will never dare that. It will be a suicide for them. It will be a repeat of 1967 where well placed artillery forced them retreat 5 kms.

In Arunachal Pradesh, with very little valleys in the LAC area where well provisioned Indian troops are waiting to avenge 1962. All the Indian troops is to cross the passes into lower heights in an attack mode and then well maintained Indian troops will close the passes and block their retreat and their supply line hence force a large scale surrender. Chinese know that hence will not even dare.

DBO + area north east samar lungpa will gone in first 30 minutes .

as @mist_consecutive mentioned western sector is more or less advantage for china , middle sector - himmachal+chumbi etc for us , AP - we are still behind china in road connectivity

 

[strat]

DBO + area north east samar lungpa will gone in first 30 minutes .

as @mist_consecutive mentioned western sector is more or less advantage for china , middle sector - himmachal+chumbi etc for us , AP - we are still behind china in road connectivity

Has someone here predicted worst case and best case scenarios that can take place in case of a conflict? A thread for that would be a really nice addition to this one

 

[Hari Sud]

DBO + area north east samar lungpa will gone in first 30 minutes .

as @mist_consecutive mentioned western sector is more or less advantage for china , middle sector - himmachal+chumbi etc for us , AP - we are still behind china in road connectivity

Dream on…..

 

[Hari Sud]

How would our artillery fare against theirs?

Our artillery at heights and highly mobile with better targeting methods will blow the hell out of Chinese. In comparison, Chinese artillery is a copied version. You can never tell when it fails.

 

[Ultraman]

Has someone here predicted worst case and best case scenarios that can take place in case of a conflict? A thread for that would be a really nice addition to this one

watch out for news of frontier lac highway road in AP .

once construction completes close to LAC - most likely china will start another standoff in AP over it .

they will salami slice what they can then . if we escalate then , war is possible

 

[DumbPilot]

There is no real substance for India-China enmity. In 1962, Nehru was acting like a CIA agent, hosting CIA planes & setting up Tibet government in exile which made China angry.

U.S. planes used Indian airbase to snoop on China

India News:U.S. planes used Indian airbase to snoop on China

www.thehindu.com

If it was just about helping, India could have given refuge to Tibetans but Nehru went one step further to set up Tibet govt in exile. To make things worse, Nehru pursued a forward policy seeing Chinese problems with Tibet which finally made China react. Although Nehru was unelected leader installed by UK, it was Indians fault to be completely stupid and accept him as authority. Blaming China is simply being unreasonable and arbitrary. How would India act if China sets up Kashmiri govt in exile? This is also why Vajpayee govt accepted Chinese control of Tibet and ended the annoyance.

As for 2020 clashes, it was not armed clashes but with sticks and stones and unlikely to be commanded by either of the leadership (no one will command their soldiers to fight with sticks). Also, India was trying to settle border dispute by sneakily trying to conquer additional peaks rather than China trying to conquer inch by inch, although this time it was not at the behest of CIA but just to secure the borders as the borders is closer to Indian population centre than Chinese. This is also why neither China nor India publish any info nor made any statement on the actual background of the clashes and it was all just media hype.

The complexity in India-China relationship arises because of strategic interest on Pakistan & middle east, mainly for the oil needs. India does not like anyone helping pakistan but China has no other way of getting its oil interests secured. India is wary of China getting too close to Pakistan & middle east to get major hold of oil supply and replace USA which will act as a continued external interference to Indian affairs with just the external agent switched from USA to China.

India-China has no cultural enmity as both are ancient civilisations and have been commonly harmed by the west. India is currently following a policy of neutrality with China. This is also why India refused to host Uighur separatists or support Hong Kong protests- both were western sponsored & India wanted no part in it. But India does not want China to be the next superpower by replacing USA's dominance in middle east but instead wants a multipolar world. Hence India won't ally with China either. This is why Jaishankar termed relation with China as "complex". It is not rivalry, enmity but simply greater geopolitical game taht transcends bilateral relations.

So, coming to war scenarios, China is no real threat to India. Indian 2 fronts are Pakistan & Bangladesh, not China. BD is small but its people have massive hatred against India and is an easy target for foreign agencies to set up anti-India sentiments. However, India uses China's name as a dummy target to justify defence developments and procurements as one can't really use weaklings like Pakistan or BD to build up major capabilities. But its is just a ploy/hype rather than real threat.

chink!

 

[rockdog]

s no real substance for India-China enmity. In 1962, Nehru was acting like a CIA agent, hosting CIA planes & setting up Tibet government in exile which made China angry.

U.S. planes used Indian airbase to snoop on China

India News:U.S. planes used Indian airbase to snoop on China

www.thehindu.com

If it was just about helping, India could have given refuge to Tibetans but Nehru went one step further to set up Tibet govt in exile. To make things worse, Nehru pursued a forward policy seeing Chinese problems with Tibet which finally made China react. Although Nehru was unelected leader installed by UK, it was Indians fault to be completely stupid and accept him as authority. Blaming China is simply being unreasonable and arbitrary. How would India act if China sets up Kashmiri govt in exile? This is also why Vajpayee govt accepted Chinese control of Tibet and ended the annoyance.

As for 2020 clashes, it was not armed clashes but with sticks and stones and unlikely to be commanded by either of the leadership (no one will command their soldiers to fight with sticks). Also, India was trying to settle border dispute by sneakily trying to conquer additional peaks rather than China trying to conquer inch by inch, although this time it was not at the behest of CIA but just to secure the borders as the borders is closer to Indian population centre than Chinese. This is also why neither China nor India publish any info nor made any statement on the actual background of the clashes and it was all just media hype.

The complexity in India-China relationship arises because of strategic interest on Pakistan & middle east, mainly for the oil needs. India does not like anyone helping pakistan but China has no other way of getting its oil interests secured. India is wary of China getting too close to Pakistan & middle east to get major hold of oil supply and replace USA which will act as a continued external interference to Indian affairs with just the external agent switched from USA to China.

India-China has no cultural enmity as both are ancient civilisations and have been commonly harmed by the west. India is currently following a policy of neutrality with China. This is also why India refused to host Uighur separatists or support Hong Kong protests- both were western sponsored & India wanted no part in it. But India does not want China to be the next superpower by replacing USA's dominance in middle east but instead wants a multipolar world. Hence India won't ally with China either. This is why Jaishankar termed relation with China as "complex". It is not rivalry, enmity but simply greater geopolitical game taht transcends bilateral relations.

So, coming to war scenarios, China is no real threat to India. Indian 2 fronts are Pakistan & Bangladesh, not China. BD is small but its people have massive hatred against India and is an easy target for foreign agencies to set up anti-India sentiments. However, India uses China's name as a dummy target to justify defence developments and procurements as one can't really use weaklings like Pakistan or BD to build up major capabilities. But its is just a ploy/hype rather than real threat.

Well said, Nehru is good scholar but never a capable political leader.

His fantasy of Fabian socialism was the key to Indian econimic failure till 1991.

And he lack of any experience on how to deal with political mixed military with big nation. The victory on Goa made himself overconfident on AI's military power.


The worst command was Brij Mohan Kaul, and he was on that position just because he was good friend of Nehru.




During my middle school time, i read the captured general John Dalvi‘s book The Himalaya Blunder, it described how incapable he was.

https://www.amazon.in/Himalayan-Blunder-Curtain-Raiser-Sino-Indian-1962/dp/8181581458?tag=dfb24-21

And during my college time, other book from Neville Maxwell gave the similar conclusion.

Amazon.com

 

[Hari Sud]

Well said, Nehru is good scholar but never a capable political leader.

His fantasy of Fabian socialism was the key to Indian econimic failure till 1991.

And he lack of any experience on how to deal with political mixed military with big nation. The victory on Goa made himself overconfident on AI's military power.

During my middle school time, i read the captured general John Dalvi‘s book The Himalaya Blunder, it described how incapable he was.

View attachment 1458

https://www.amazon.in/Himalayan-Blunder-Curtain-Raiser-Sino-Indian-1962/dp/8181581458?tag=dfb24-21

And during my college time, other book from Neville Maxwell gave the similar conclusion.

View attachment 1459

Amazon.com

Maxwell Neville of Australian origin was British agent who snooped on highly confidential Indian report like US, Pentagon Papers. Who did Maxwell bribe, we don’t know. The copy he got was a draft copy under typing and correction. He could have picked it up from a dustbin. The American sent the perpetrators of Pentagon papers to jail and so should Maxwell be in jail.

Just to your point……. Pentagon papers did not accept American defeat except how they got into Vietnam. The Maxwell report has used only the selective critical portions to prove that Nehru/Menon were wrong. Other words the world’s greatest obtuse and warlike person, that is Mao Tse Tung was right.

How could anybody who occupies somebody else’s land be right.

 

[Samej Jangir]

Maxwell Neville of Australian origin was British agent who snooped on highly confidential Indian report like US, Pentagon Papers. Who did Maxwell bribe, we don’t know. The copy he got was a draft copy under typing and correction. He could have picked it up from a dustbin. The American sent the perpetrators of Pentagon papers to jail and so should Maxwell be in jail.

Just to your point……. Pentagon papers did not accept American defeat except how they got into Vietnam. The Maxwell report has used only the selective critical portions to prove that Nehru/Menon were wrong. Other words the world’s greatest obtuse and warlike person, that is Mao Tse Tung was right.

How could anybody who occupies somebody else’s land be right.

Can you tell me which land belonging to someone else is under occupation with respect to China?
Please give following details instead of rhetorics:
1. Reasonable argument to say a piece of land belonged to someone else based on sound facts
2. Argument to say it is being occupied through deceit/treachery or wrongful means
3. Reasonable argument to define what is the right means of conquest/earning more land based on historical realities (not fantasies like Geneva convention, UNO etc)

If you manage to give answers, we can have a reasonable discussion

 

[Samej Jangir]

Yeah we should shut down the entire Eastern command
What an answer bro, I am surprised you didn't call 2020 clashes a BJP ploy

Eastern command? Do you have a problem in reading? Are you visually impaired or not versed with English? Or are you directionally disoriented?

China is in the north. Eastern command is for handling fanatics in the east, mainly NE, BD irritants. Eastern command is headquartered in Kolkata, not in Sikkim, Ladakh or Uttarakhand and that is for a good reason. I have even hinted on this by saying that the 2nd front is BD, not China which answers the need for Eastern command.

As for northern command, it has mostly been in the news for J&K (including Ladakh-Kargil) issues. LAC is mainly handled by ITBP which is CAPF, not army. Now I will ask you a counter question - why is Southern command needed?

What bullshit !

@Mods take action

chink!

As for the issues, I have clearly explained with proper reasonings. If any of you have anything logical to say against my words, I am all ears. If you are just suffering from Stockholme syndrome or conformation bias, then leave me out of your misery.
@DumbPilot are you 3 year old in age or in IQ to do such cheap name callings?

 

[Ultraman]

Can you tell me which land belonging to someone else is under occupation with respect to China?
Please give following details instead of rhetorics:
1. Reasonable argument to say a piece of land belonged to someone else based on sound facts
2. Argument to say it is being occupied through deceit/treachery or wrongful means
3. Reasonable argument to define what is the right means of conquest/earning more land based on historical realities (not fantasies like Geneva convention, UNO etc)

If you manage to give answers, we can have a reasonable discussion

south china sea islands .

trying to take over some shoal from phillipines

ur not samej jangir from old forum , r u ?

 

[Samej Jangir]

south china sea islands .

trying to take over some shoal from phillipines

ur not samej jangir from old forum , r u ?

I am the same Samej.
As for South China sea, Philippines itself is an occupied country, occupied by USA currently and previously by Spain although briefly it was conquered by Japan. Ever since USA reconquered it back, it has never retreated and even maintains a military base along with deep rooted political network in Philippines due to history of its political control & affiliation with church.

What is your basis for claiming the islands belong to Philippines?

 

[Ultraman]

I am the same Samej.
As for South China sea, Philippines itself is an occupied country, occupied by USA currently and previously by Spain although briefly it was conquered by Japan. Ever since USA reconquered it back, it has never retreated and even maintains a military base along with deep rooted political network in Philippines due to history of its political control & affiliation with church.

What is your basis for claiming the islands belong to Philippines?

proximity for one + phillipines are on the shoal , china isnt .

on what basis is the chinese coast guard harassing filipinos 1000km from china

 

[Ultraman]

some images from LAC , googles been updating satellite images with new ultra sharp ones . can even see people standing around vehicles

indian tanks at base , t-72 / t-90 close to LAC



"upgraded" india army burtse base , depsang .



chinese observation post , really clear one

round observation tower on right , buildings + construction vehicles left



satellite images are becoming cheap . 10 years from now gonna able to see war happening from sky in near real time .

 

[Hari Sud]

I am the same Samej.
As for South China sea, Philippines itself is an occupied country, occupied by USA currently and previously by Spain although briefly it was conquered by Japan. Ever since USA reconquered it back, it has never retreated and even maintains a military base along with deep rooted political network in Philippines due to history of its political control & affiliation with church.

What is your basis for claiming the islands belong to Philippines?

Do you get the feeling that this guy Samej Jangir is Chinese? He with his loud mouth arguing Chinese case against India and Philipines in the above writings. He lacks geography also says Easter Command for East. He does not know that north of Eastern Command is Tibet/China.

 

[Samej Jangir]

proximity for one + phillipines are on the shoal , china isnt .

on what basis is the chinese coast guard harassing filipinos 1000km from china

So, Philippines, which is not even a real country but merely a colony with no indigenous culture is having more rights than China merely on the basis of proximity? Isn't America owned by native Americans by that logic?

Do you get the feeling that this guy Samej Jangir is Chinese? He with his loud mouth arguing Chinese case against India and Philipines in the above writings. He lacks geography also says Easter Command for East. He does not know that north of Eastern Command is Tibet/China.

I am making valid points. I am open for debate and don't do name calling or insulting. I speak confidently because I am indeed knowledgeable and intelligent. North of Eastern command is indeed Arunachal pradesh. But that is not the main concern nor is there any major deployment of major bases or heavy armour there. The main work of Eastern command is regarding BD & NE fanatics which has always been a major red zones after J&K in terms of foreign activity. You simply ignore this fact and just harp on China angle without any facts, logic or reasoning.