Indo US Relations

[DingDong]

This ruins three decades of indigenous engine development. There are newer variants too , india is getting the oldest variant. All the conditions should be coming with it.

On the other end, we need something that really works as a stop-gap measure.
Derailing or not derailing the "indigenous engine development" depends on our own priorities. US will try to influence our decisions, however, the final decision and accountability is ours only.

PS: There is another thread running on the same topic. Kindly merge.

View: https://twitter.com/USAndIndia/status/1813436056739455066?s=19

And this is how an enabling ecosystem is created under our very noses in our own land under the garb of innocuous sounding tweets.

The question is: what countermeasures is our government implementing? Looks like the BJP government is in deep slumber.

 

[ezsasa]

In agreement. This one I can see how its being played out for common Indians who get newly hooked to internet via first smart phone. The news curated on Google, the videos being recommended on Youtube or facebook are first and most impactful social engineering process they undergo over which Govt has no control. People may not agree but Cambridge Analytica findings are being further used to direct more precise social engineering methods and 2024 elections were affected by them. This duly led to reduction of mandate of Modi.

Brits or Islamists needed their physical presence to bring chasms in society to further their colonialism. New form of colonialism is all about using less labour intensive but leveraging technology, turncoats, threats and grooming.

Social Engineering using social media is example of using Technology to groom favorable opinion for onself and not so favorable opinion which neo colonial powers dont like.

i'll just add context to why i wrote that op which triggered this convo.

after modi visited russia recently, one must have noticed flurry of attempts by BD and Paki journos in WH and pentagon briefings to get a specific response from spokespersons which they didn't get. they were trying to elicit a response which goes along the lines of "since modi went to meet putin, India is bad".

but this is not new, this has been happening for decades, irrespective of political party in power.

some of the recent ones are..

"India bought oil from russia, India is not pro-democracy".
"Modi has majority in parliament, India is a electoral-autocracy".
"India tested ASAT, India is triggering arms race".
"India tested Agni, India is triggering nuclear arms race".
"India bought rafale, India is triggering arms race in sooth asia".
"India did not sign RCEP, India is protectionist".
"India passed citizen amendment law, India is anti-muslim".

this is a theme. anything the country does, there is an attempt to demonise us , and there is a target painted on our back. much of it originates outside of the country, aided and amplified by proxies within.

that post of mine and murican ambassador's influencer project is linked to the amplification from within aspect.

yesterday there was discussion on newX, sanjaya baru was using western talking points.

we can't stop these themes, but atleast be aware that there is a format and a pattern to it, if and when the next one pops up.

 

[Anants]

i'll just add context to why i wrote that op which triggered this convo.

after modi visited russia recently, one must have noticed flurry of attempts by BD and Paki journos in WH and pentagon briefings to get a specific response from spokespersons which they didn't get. they were trying to elicit a response which goes along the lines of "since modi went to meet putin, India is bad".

but this is not new, this has been happening for decades, irrespective of political party in power.

some of the recent ones are..

"India bought oil from russia, India is not pro-democracy".
"Modi has majority in parliament, India is a electoral-autocracy".
"India tested ASAT, India is triggering arms race".
"India tested Agni, India is triggering nuclear arms race".
"India bought rafale, India is triggering arms race in sooth asia".
"India did not sign RCEP, India is protectionist".
"India passed citizen amendment law, India is anti-muslim".

this is a theme. anything the country does, there is an attempt to demonise us , and there is a target painted on our back. much of it originates outside of the country, aided and amplified by proxies within.

that post of mine and murican ambassador's influencer project is linked to the amplification from within aspect.

yesterday there was discussion on newX, sanjaya baru was using western talking points.

we can't stop these themes, but atleast be aware that there is a format and a pattern to it, if and when the next one pops up.

@ezsasa opened thread Lets start posting these good posts there. I'll add what I find. I think its important that we document this on forum and this red pill info be imbibed and disseminated by members and outsiders alike.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

On the other end, we need something that really works as a stop-gap measure.
Derailing or not derailing the "indigenous engine development" depends on our own priorities. US will try to influence our decisions, however, the final decision and accountability is ours only.

PS: There is another thread running on the same topic. Kindly merge.



The question is: what countermeasures is our government implementing? Looks like the BJP government is in deep slumber.

What will india do if USA decides the engine cannot be put In planes to be used against Pakistan? This is not a strategic move but one that makes india vulnerable in the future????

 

[Blademaster]

Ever notice how the engine manufacturers quote the price of participation in exchange for ToT and “some” IP rights? Their price corresponds to the price of the funding needed to put Kaveri program on track and compete with other engine manufacturers.

That alone tells you their real intentions.

 

[Comet]

View: https://x.com/arabnewspk/status/1816006635694989769

 

[TopWatcher]

Ever notice how the engine manufacturers quote the price of participation in exchange for ToT and “some” IP rights? Their price corresponds to the price of the funding needed to put Kaveri program on track and compete with other engine manufacturers.

That alone tells you their real intentions.

I think govt now knows this and backing up kaveri. GTRE seems optimistic these days.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

View: https://x.com/arabnewspk/status/1816006635694989769

when USA has relations with other countries those countries have to be 100% on the American side.
But USA can will always keep good relations or give aid to those countries enemies. This is why USA
has no real friends or allies.

 

[DingDong]

when USA has relations with other countries those countries have to be 100% on the American side.
But USA can will always keep good relations or give aid to those countries enemies. This is why USA
has no real friends or allies.

USA and it's NATO allies operate in a certain manner because they think they can, in fact no shame in it. This is the nature of statecraft. While this western alliance was economically and geopolitically dominant this was a viable and profitable option for them, still is to a certain extent.

Being the only global superpower, the US did not need friends.

It's lonely at the top.

However, the scope of American geopolitical exceptionalism is shrinking day-by-day.

Could we ever imagine the experts in the US newsrooms debating the impact of "de-dollarization"? Could we imagine the western economic sanctions failing to sting?

Could we imagine the NATO doubting it's airspace-denial capabilities? Could we imagine those multi-million dollar precision guided hi-tech weapons failing to hit their targets?

Even though the US/NATO is still a formidable force, it has been stretched thin. It's defenses are scattered due to too many pressure points, too many hostile actors. The world is changing fast.

I am particularly amazed by the manner in which Iran has been bleeding Israel to extract revenge for the killings of it's senior government/military officials during the peace-time. This one makes a good case-study for the military planners, even better than Ukraine.

Soon, the shoe will be on the other foot.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

USA and it's NATO allies operate in a certain manner because they think they can, in fact no shame in it. This is the nature of statecraft. While this western alliance was economically and geopolitically dominant this was a viable and profitable option for them, still is to a certain extent.

Being the only global superpower, the US did not need friends.



However, the scope of American geopolitical exceptionalism is shrinking day-by-day.

Could we ever imagine the experts in the US newsrooms debating the impact of "de-dollarization"? Could we imagine the western economic sanctions failing to sting?

Could we imagine the NATO doubting it's airspace-denial capabilities? Could we imagine those multi-million dollar precision guided hi-tech weapons failing to hit their targets?

Even though the US/NATO is still a formidable force, it has been stretched thin. It's defenses are scattered due to too many pressure points, too many hostile actors. The world is changing fast.

I am particularly amazed by the manner in which Iran has been bleeding Israel to extract revenge for the killings of it's senior government/military officials during the peace-time. This one makes a good case-study for the military planners, even better than Ukraine.

Soon, the shoe will be on the other foot.

Russia was well behaved in the past now I think they will look to take any proxy side against USA
and not worry about repercussions??? China is also going down the same path. The hype and
aura that surrounded NATO is been shattered by Taliban, Houtis , Iran etc.... Even Saudi Arabia
has changed their pro western foreign policy. The asymettric warfare also going on currently
(cyberattacks etc....) is also being swept under the rug in the media. US navy was the strongest
navy in the world today they have lost almost all control of the Black sea and maybe Persian gulf if
Houtis keep up their attacks?? Also the war in Yemen has not went well for USA/Saudi Arabia.

 

[DingDong]

Russia was well behaved in the past now I think they will look to take any proxy side against USA
and not worry about repercussions??? China is also going down the same path. The hype and
aura that surrounded NATO is been shattered by Taliban, Houtis , Iran etc.... Even Saudi Arabia
has changed their pro western foreign policy. The asymettric warfare also going on currently
(cyberattacks etc....) is also being swept under the rug in the media.

Unlike the medieval-age weapons (like crossbows, sword, pikes, and shields) guns are easier to use. No extensive training regime is required.

Guns make the physical strength irrelevant in a conflict. For example, a 9 year old poor boy carrying a gun is as deadly as a 35 year old millionaire carrying a gun. A 4.5 feet tall frail person carrying a gun can easily defend him/her-self against a 6 feet tall well-built attacker.

Some people say that the modern human history is actually the history of guns.

Proliferation of the guns paved the way for decentralization of power and democratization in the city/nation states.

In the current context,

Asymmetric warfare, introduction of the autonomous drones in particular, is going to have the same effect at the global scale.

Some experts have been claiming that the 5th generation fighter jets like F-22, F-35 will become irrelevant faster than the 4th generation ones.

Look at the cost-parity as well. For example, Hamas' rockets cost around 1/10th of the Israeli iron dome interceptors. Hence higher defense budget of the rich western nations has become irrelevant.

Interesting days ahead.....

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Unlike the medieval-age weapons (like crossbows, sword, pikes, and shields) guns are easier to use. No extensive training regime is required.

Guns make the physical strength irrelevant in a conflict. For example, a 9 year old poor boy carrying a gun is as deadly as a 35 year old millionaire carrying a gun. A 4.5 feet tall frail person carrying a gun can easily defend him/her-self against a 6 feet tall well-built attacker.

Some people say that the modern human history is actually the history of guns.

Proliferation of the guns paved the way for decentralization of power and democratization in the city/nation states.

In the current context,

Asymmetric warfare, introduction of the autonomous drones in particular, is going to have the same effect at the global scale.

Some experts have been claiming that the 5th generation fighter jets like F-22, F-35 will become irrelevant faster than the 4th generation ones.

Look at the cost-parity as well. For example, Hamas' rockets cost around 1/10th of the Israeli iron dome interceptors. Hence higher defense budget of the rich western nations has become irrelevant.

Interesting days ahead.....

Guns didnt pave way for democratisation. The telegraph did. There's a reason why no republican/democratic system in the pre-modern world grew to a size greater than a week's ride by horse at best. In fact, the arthashastra discusses why ganatanra(republic) is an inferior model to rajtantra(monarchy) for a vast empire like Magadh: you cannot effectively function as a government, if you rely on democracy and your base is 2 months march away.
This is why democracy started to flourish once the telegraph came into existance - the distance factor between decision-makers and their representatives was removed.

 

[Blademaster]

when USA has relations with other countries those countries have to be 100% on the American side.
But USA can will always keep good relations or give aid to those countries enemies. This is why USA
has no real friends or allies.

This is why we need to stay friends and allies to Russia despite the pressure by the West.

 

[Hari Sud]

View: https://x.com/arabnewspk/status/1816006635694989769

Waste of money. That is reward for selling real cheap artillery shells to Ukraine.

 

[Blademaster]

Russia was well behaved in the past now I think they will look to take any proxy side against USA
and not worry about repercussions??? China is also going down the same path. The hype and
aura that surrounded NATO is been shattered by Taliban, Houtis , Iran etc.... Even Saudi Arabia
has changed their pro western foreign policy. The asymettric warfare also going on currently
(cyberattacks etc....) is also being swept under the rug in the media. US navy was the strongest
navy in the world today they have lost almost all control of the Black sea and maybe Persian gulf if
Houtis keep up their attacks?? Also the war in Yemen has not went well for USA/Saudi Arabia.

Actually USN never had any control in the Black Sea. But Russia has lost its ability to rule the seas of Black Sea. The recent drone attacks have successfully hindered Russian Navy’s ability to dominate the Ukrainian coastline.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Actually USN never had any control in the Black Sea. But Russia has lost its ability to rule the seas of Black Sea. The recent drone attacks have successfully hindered Russian Navy’s ability to dominate the Ukrainian coastline.

Once Odessa falls this will be resolved. I don't think putin will do an
incomplete job in Ukraine. He will leave Ukraine a landlocked country.

 

[Azaad]

This ruins three decades of indigenous engine development. There are newer variants too , india is getting the oldest variant. All the conditions should be coming with it.

It just struck me that MoD / IAF / GoI may be trying their level best to get the tech from SAFRAN for the ACE / Variable Cycle Engine with thd ability to generate a or several MWs of power for lasers , other hi tech avionics & weapons systems from it for this is going to be the staple of 6th Gen FA technology.

GoI may have been holding up the order for the remaining 36 nos Rafales for which we've already paid for in terms of the bases & ISE as well as the MRFA tender to arm twist the French , for SAFRAN & by extension the French government is definitely reluctant to share such cutting edge state of the art technology instead offering us a variation of the M-88 capable of generating 120 KN wet thrust which French members over at Stat Front have long confirmed has already been developed years ago .

It's a well thought out strategy by the west to keep India one or several notches below sharing such cutting edge stuff. This is power play at its best.

 

[Vinash]

View: https://x.com/SenMarcoRubio/status/1816545452713730184

 

[Abhijeet]

Republicans are trying to attract Indian Americans for the upcoming elections


View: https://x.com/SenMarcoRubio/status/1816545452713730184

 

[Abhijeet]

‘Treat India on par with NATO, Japan and Korea’: Senator Marco Rubio introduces US-India Defense Cooperation Act to strengthen ties

Florida senator Marco Rubio brings bill in US Congress, seeks key ally status for India on par with Japan, Korea and Israel

Taking to X, Senator Marco Rubio informed about introducing the bill “U.S.-India Defense Cooperation Act” and wrote, “In order to strengthen our partnership with India, it’s essential we increase our strategic relationship w/ New Delhi. Introduced a bill to best support India as they continue to...

www.opindia.com

The bill would set a “Statement of Policy stating that the United States will support India in its response to growing threats to its territorial integrity, provide necessary security assistance to India to deter adversaries, and cooperate with India on defense, civil space, technology, medicine, and economic investments.”

If passed, the bill provided a “limited exemption for India from CAATSA sanctions for purchases of Russian equipment that are currently used by the Indian military.”

The bill proposes authorising the Secretary of State to sign a memorandum of understanding (MoU) with India “to increase military cooperation; expedite excess defence articles to India for two years and grant India the same status as other allies; and expand International Military Education and Training Cooperation with New Delhi.”

In what could be a major blow to Pakistan if the bill is passed, the bill brought by Marco Rubio, the senator from Florida, states that a report should be submitted before the Congress on Pakistan’s use of terrorism and proxy terror groups against India. In addition, the bill proposes to deny security assistance to Pakistan, if it is found that the country sponsored terrorism against India.