Indo US Relations

India could never regard US as a long term friend. The US has opportunistic foreign policy in which it will dump friends or make friends as the local politics demands or the international situation warrants.

The US has made great friends with India during short lived Kennedy era and then dumped the friendship when it sent nuclear aircraft carrier to Bay of Bengal to intimidate India in 1971. Again in early eighties, it was friendly as it wanted to win the Afghan war 1. It dumped India during Clinton era when India exploded the bomb. Again India was needed by US to win the Gulf War 2 after 9/11 and President Trump thought that India is a good counter to China. It was a sound move. Well India got dumped by Biden as they pursued a loosing Ukraine war, which India did not support.

Today, a US ambassador to India is saying words about India which are no … no in diplomatic circles. He is following Biden anti India policy.

Hence, US is no friends. It has interests only. Today they serve their interest tomorrow they shift to elsewhere.

Hence, what is left for India is to get into speedy economic development and reach $5 trillion economy next year and $10 trillion by 2032. That will make India a heavy weight and US will think twice before they play around in policy with India.

Commercial relations aside, India has to be cautious buying military hardware from US. That will become another US pressure points.
 
Azaad said:
Regarding this entire imbroglio in BD , I deliberately stayed away from those threads so as to not add anything to the chatter & fill in countless pages indulging in wild speculation besides venting my spleen & in the hope that within a span of a month or 2 a more clear picture will emerge.

Unfortunately nearly a month down the line the situation is getting even more muddled. For instance how many of us out here knew BD had approved China's plans in 2017 to construct a submarine pen to house 6-7 subs at an upcoming Naval base near Cox's Bazaar IIRC which was built last March - the BNS Shaikh Haseena .

Do we understand that BD intends to have a fleet of 6 submarines in the near future or is this subterfuge to get the PLAN in ? In the event St Martin's Island the purported place which the US was interested in is totally unsuitable for a base . However the issue remains that the US is interested in a Naval cum Aircraft Base in BD.

Was the US asking for a quid pro quo in the light of the PLAN getting a foothold there which SHW obviously denied them ? What was India's reaction to the base the Chinese built ostensibly for the BDN ? On the surface there seems nothing amiss in the Modi administration's relationship with the SHW government .

Now the issue is with SHW gone & BDs economy deteriorating , will the BD Army acquiesce to US demands. There's a very good chance it might happen. However , how will the Islamists treat such a move ? Assuming the US buys them out , it's no longer a case of the JeI monopolising the Islamists cause in BD anymore .

A lot of even more extreme players have cropped up who may not be pliable to US manoeuvres or aligned with the JeI way of thinking . Moreover it's not as if the Awami League is both - down & OUT . Neither will the Chinese sit back & be a passive observer , nor will we ?

If such a base can have the Chinese worried , It's a even bigger problem for us. We already have US personnel prying our bases under the pretext of preventing misuse of defence equipment of US origin they've sold us like the P-8i , INS Jalashwa , the few Predators we've taken on lease etc . With the slew of agreements we've signed previously & just now , their intrusion into our defence establishment will grow .

How exactly did the Indian establishment react behind closed doors to the US mounting a campaign to oust SHW before & after the elections ? Apart from a few customary statements from the MEA there was nothing of note in the public domain.

I've a gut feeling BD will become a real mess going forward on both the political & economic fronts becoming a playground for competing interests with disastrous consequences for themselves & us .
Click to expand...

if we extend this logic, every govt in our neighbourhood who tried to deepen ties with china, their govts fell except for new maldives govt (for now).

more info on that BD submarine base, i forgot about it as well.

https://features.csis.org/snapshots/china-submarine-diplomacy/

do copy your post and paste it in that new BD watch thread, we'll track it there.

as far as US is concerned, they are the victors of the previous cold war, they have experience in these sort of things. last time cold war was played in countries other than the principal players, India is definitely not a principal player in cold war 2.0, so we will be at the receiving end just like last time.
 
ezsasa said:
if we extend this logic, every govt in our neighbourhood who tried to deepen ties with china, their govts fell except for new maldives govt (for now).

more info on that BD submarine base, i forgot about it as well.

https://features.csis.org/snapshots/china-submarine-diplomacy/

do copy your post and paste it in that new BD watch thread, we'll track it there.

as far as US is concerned, they are the victors of the previous cold war, they have experience in these sort of things. last time cold war was played in countries other than the principal players, India is definitely not a principal player in cold war 2.0, so we will be at the receiving end just like last time.
Click to expand...
The difference in this Cold War is USA has a competior who much smarter and richer. In the old Cold War USA did not make the enemy the richest country in the world before the war.
Chinese in this Cold War built up their Allies while USA seems to be destroying them?
 
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Azaad said:
Regarding this entire imbroglio in BD , I deliberately stayed away from those threads so as to not add anything to the chatter & fill in countless pages indulging in wild speculation
Click to expand...
It is everywhere, haha. Forum now reads like the far left Indian subreddits - endless stream of crying, coping and seething. Think a lot of DFI old timers have gone inactive and newer, possibly younger, members have taken their place. Either way, depending on the outcomes of the upcoming elections, this might change in a few months - who knows.

So glad I was not on DFI back in 2018. :yey:

Anyway, you might find the following articles from steno Shishir interesting;


 
crazywithmath said:
It is everywhere, haha. Forum now reads like the far left Indian subreddits - endless stream of crying, coping and seething. Think a lot of DFI old timers have gone inactive and newer, possibly younger, members have taken their place. Either way, depending on the outcomes of the upcoming elections, this might change in a few months - who knows.

So glad I was not on DFI back in 2018. :yey:

Anyway, you might find the following articles from steno Shishir interesting;


Click to expand...
I've another theory . The US did what they did in BD to send a message to the larger world especially here in South / SE Asia particularly to us.

By getting SHW out they're actually hitting the Modi Government coz their previous plans to destabilize / unseat him haven't been entirely successful , hence destabilize the periphery ( Message here to all those especially the young ones on the reason we haven't gone Mongol on the Kukis ) .

Secondly unlike Paxtan , BD doesn't have N weapons , neither is it of any particular strategic interest to the US by means of its location nor does it have any strategic wealth to be exploited.

If the US was so desperate to interdict Chinese SLOCs across the various straits leading from the Pacific to the Indian Ocean , they already have a base right in Singapore .

If India wasn't too accomodating of US interests in targeting the Chinese underbelly in Tibet & Xinjiang by opening up a second front & BD replicating India's position , with Myanmar turning into a basket case , there was always Thailand where they could base their Navy & AF assets. After all Thailand was a staunch US ally during the Vietnam war .

Besides PLAAF will seek to target both the A&N island chain as well as East & NE India through Yunnan flying over BD & Myanmar & not exclusively through Xinjiang & Tibet . The US can play the same game .
 
Aaj Ka Hero said:
m.economictimes.com

90-foot-tall bronze statue of Lord Hanuman becomes new landmark in Texas

A 90-foot-tall bronze statue of Lord Hanuman, known as the 'Statue of Union,' has been unveiled near Houston at the Sri Ashtalakshmi Temple, marking a significant cultural and spiritual milestone in America. This third tallest statue in the US symbolizes selflessness, devotion, and unity, and...
m.economictimes.com m.economictimes.com
I don't know how Red necks will be reacting to this in their circles. The key is to make them believe and it's real that them and us both have survival problems from leftist-islamists combo.
Click to expand...

Just like you'd expect them. hey are calling names and some very disrespectful things.
 
Umm it aint Cold War 2.0 just yet. Its just US grabbing as much resources, bases and eliminating would be powers before China in actual becomes threat. West is too corrupted by Chinese money and influence too have grown beyond rhetoric and empty threats. But whats interesting is definitely they don't want another China's in making - so they definitely want Indians to be cut to size. And for later they'll employ all means including using China and Pakistan for their means. US has taken out her claws wayyyy tooo soon for India.
ST Martin Base, A new country in NE India and Bangla is more about India and secondary about China. They want to have base near our all major naval bases and Missile testing centers - what does that tell? It also does not help the eastern to southern coast is highly vitiated by US sponsored missionary activities.

Conundrum in BD is meant for INDIA and INDIANS alone,.,. Let there be no doubt. Chinese Submarine base would not have become reality. Even if it became a reality - it would be have treasure trove of Chinese capabilities. How would have Chinese supplied it without constantly being under Indian surveillance? Chinese are more about getting access to BOB via Myanmar - US wanted to cut that and also get control over Golden Triangle via Christian Nation but also have direct access to interfering in Indian North East.
 
Vinash said:
Would like to know what sort of dirt the Americans have on us/BJP.

They are literally doing foreign interference activities in the open and BJP leadership is completely silent.


View: https://x.com/VatsRishap/status/1828081324525232280
Click to expand...

They are arranging courtesy meets to present the image of 'new Kashmir' (directly facilitated by the GoI). Similar meetings were arranged between the visiting Vietnamese PM and several political leaders;


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4N_g9Iol9Y

They should be more worried about shit like this;

Last week, an unusual incident took place in New Delhi when the US Embassy in India invited the country’s leading farmer leaders for tea. This claim comes from highly reliable sources. It’s worth noting that the farmers’ protests against the new agricultural laws are ongoing, with farmers firmly entrenched at Delhi’s Shambhu border, continuing their fight against the central government’s proposed agrarian policies. Although mainstream media has largely ignored the farmers’ protests, their impact on the upcoming Haryana Assembly elections could be significant. According to sources, during the tea meeting at the US Embassy, the farmer leaders openly expressed their frustrations, discussing issues ranging from MSP (Minimum Support Price) to loan waivers.

It is said that immediately after this, the Indian Foreign Ministry came into action and wanted to know from the US Embassy officials that ‘how can their agenda of meeting the farmer leaders of India strengthen the bilateral relations between the two countries?’ The US Embassy reportedly responded quickly, explaining that it was merely a courtesy meeting. Since a large part of India’s economy is connected to agriculture-based industries, the US is interested in increasing its stake in this sector. Companies like Cargill, which focus on agriculture-related products and have billion-dollar businesses, are looking to expand their investments in India’s agricultural sector. The embassy was exploring the potential of this roadmap. With this explanation, the Indian Ministry of External Affairs had no choice but to remain silent on the matter.
Click to expand...
 
Illusive said:
But that doesn't mean they will stay in the bubble, they'd get slayed by Chinese companies or others who would just innovate and outperform them. I still have difficulty understanding the motivations of the current US led left.

The goal of any power has been to keep your opponents busy within themselves fighting each other and profit from it or simply annihilate it.

There are so many details in this like, the population/fertility decline, rise of AI, rise of fundametalist Islamist foothold in the west which I think is just the virus that has been planted systematically eveywhere to create unrest when needed, the push for immigrants without any filter.

It just feels like the left is a mess right now of different thought processes. You cant just call them Marxist and be done with it is all I am saying.
Click to expand...
That is not an issue for the US tech market. They are, by far the most dominant market in the world - the chinese are not even in the same ballpark as usa when it comes to existing legacy software and app development market.
This is like saying western gun manufacturers would be concerned about being outcompeted by chinese gun manufacturers 200 years ago- they are not worried, because their industrial lead is so, so huge.

They are not even remotely worried at the moment about how their oligarchic practices and dumbing down the merit based system will impact their pocketbook today, if ever.
American ultra-rich model is very simple: import talent either via massive salaries in H1b pathway or via enticement for hoity toity university degrees of their cream universities(and then recruit), while dumb down their own society to prevent much ability of society to overthrow them.
As long as they are highly meritocratic in their ACTUAL tech hirings from overseas talunt, which they are to a ruthless degree, their bottomline doesn't get impact and there is no indegenous competition to grow, as H1b people and that pipeline is in their pocket.
 
ezsasa said:
and from a different perspective..

- every word and sentence that comes out in a MEA related readout is very deliberate, they have people dedicated to writing and approving drafts for outgoing communication. they could have chosen not to publish that sentence, but they did not. if PMO and MEA added some sentence, it is very deliberate.

- by choosing to include the sentence on BD minorities and U.S not including this in their readout. our MEA has put a marker in 2024 and is telling our historians and future practitioners, U.S policy hasn't moved that much since 50 years on this matter. this will be later be interpreted by future Indian policy practitioners as per circumstances of their day.

- future foreign policy academics/historians will not look thru social chatter to understand the state of affairs of the past, good ones will go thru official statements of the past, bad ones will rely on opeds of the past.
Click to expand...
There was a considerable time gap b/w readouts of both countries. US thought over it and chose not to mention Bangladesh in theirs. The Indian counterparts must have tried to persuade, but US is simply not interested.
What's the point then?
Even IG did this pre 1971 war, no one listened to her as well. She split the country in 1971. If Mudi wants to do something like this, then sure "saat khoon maaf" later, but it's a useless exercise to whine about Hindoos to deaf ears. We should be able to solve our problems ourselves instead of outsourcing our concerns to big daddies, that too of a shithole that's heavily dependent on us.
 
ezsasa said:
if we extend this logic, every govt in our neighbourhood who tried to deepen ties with china, their govts fell except for new maldives govt (for now).

more info on that BD submarine base, i forgot about it as well.

https://features.csis.org/snapshots/china-submarine-diplomacy/

do copy your post and paste it in that new BD watch thread, we'll track it there.

as far as US is concerned, they are the victors of the previous cold war, they have experience in these sort of things. last time cold war was played in countries other than the principal players, India is definitely not a principal player in cold war 2.0, so we will be at the receiving end just like last time.
Click to expand...

History is chock full of losers who lost wars because they fought the new war with their winner's bias of the last war. From Prithviraj to Napoleonic France to Austria, etc.

I believe you are correct, that America is treating this as the new cold war and as such, America is trying to play the boa constrictor of its main rival-China, like it did with USSR. In this, they are very chankian, to prefer economic costs be the main driver of their victory over outright war, as daam comes before dand or bhedh.
To this end, America i think is angling for a base in Bangladesh to open up another avenue to take a look at Chinese military in its underbelly of wht is the Tibet-Burma-China triangle.
This area of China is much like the north east is to us- their 'adivasi' zone of 1 million tiny little tribes, who've mostly been under a tussle of Chinese-Burmese influence ( the Shan states of Myanmar and Yunnan state of China, which basically absorbed the Chinese influenced Shan states.
Ability to access this area with CIA is their main objective for a base in the bangladesh-NE region, as it will be a good way to destabilize china ( as opposed to in areas of TIbet or Xinjiang, where direct Chinese control is much, much stronger and quicker due to military nodes, etc).

Its interests in the periphery ( Sri Lanka & Maldives) is to create instability, as it would create instability for Chinese freighter traffic, though not to a significant degree as these areas can be bypassed by the Chinese fleet and thus incur a financial cost.

However, America is going to lose. This is because America is making the classic mistake of fighting today's war with yesterday's method. China is not USSR. For one, China is twice the economic size of USSR wrt USA. For two, China isnt severed from the US financial-economic sectors for the US to take punitive economic actions willy-nilly. In today's era of globalisation, China has much more tools to fight the US govt in US (via lobbying through industrial links) than USSR ever did.
Further, there are now effectively 2 strong socio-economic poles (USA and China) and two weak ones ( India and EU), both of which didnt exist in the prior cold war and offer a significant addition of complexity for uncle sam.
While it is easy to think that EU is same as EEC under the old cold war with some expansion, as the ukraine war showed, there is significant divergence in EU and USA now than ever before in USA's ability to co-opt the situation solely for its own benefit.

futher complicating the matter for uncle sam, its economy is in far worse shape overall currently than at any time in history due to its overwhelming debt problem, a scenario that now negatively affects their dollar hegemony control, a decisive function of their winning the prior cold war.

So all in all, uncle sam's odds of winning this one isnt that great.
 
So -

1. US diplomats met "Farm leaders" - 100% believable

2. IB bugged the room - 100% believable maybe

3. MEA takes up the issue - 100% believable

4. US embassy clarifies on potential investments/roadmaps - 100% believable

5. MEA is dumbfounded, does not know how to respond & remains quiet - 100% bunkum

(PS - nothing "secretive" even happens in these meetings, those will be handled differently, these are for needling, public show of their strength, platforming/legitimizing people who they think could be of use to them now or later.)

As though it is Chaduni & Yogendra Yadav who has more information on Indian agriculture/challenges/roadmaps/statistics than GOI or its agencies.

Obama democrats are problematic, will create needling & more pressure points.

India needs to cultivate its own set of US/EU "orbiter journalists" to sell its viewpoints there, using whatever budget it has. Even so it will only be 1/50 th of what burger coolies do for their massa here.

**

See this, Lunderican pro regime propaganda & disinformation outlet -



Millions in this country are stranded by flooding. Many blame their neighbor ​


1724819401241.png

(Facts be damned, "many people blame their neighbor")

Pro democrat media cell


View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1828416901455749381

Kangali Islamists -


View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1828345671080124464


View: https://twitter.com/MeghUpdates/status/1828445378607227281


View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1828399415133966573

Massive Lunderican Psyops

**

Also, many Muslims believe that US agencies did 9/11 so as to throw chaos, disorder & war in order to make profitability to US military industrial complex.
 
Last edited:
GaudaNaresh said:
History is chock full of losers who lost wars because they fought the new war with their winner's bias of the last war. From Prithviraj to Napoleonic France to Austria, etc.

I believe you are correct, that America is treating this as the new cold war and as such, America is trying to play the boa constrictor of its main rival-China, like it did with USSR. In this, they are very chankian, to prefer economic costs be the main driver of their victory over outright war, as daam comes before dand or bhedh.
To this end, America i think is angling for a base in Bangladesh to open up another avenue to take a look at Chinese military in its underbelly of wht is the Tibet-Burma-China triangle.
This area of China is much like the north east is to us- their 'adivasi' zone of 1 million tiny little tribes, who've mostly been under a tussle of Chinese-Burmese influence ( the Shan states of Myanmar and Yunnan state of China, which basically absorbed the Chinese influenced Shan states.
Ability to access this area with CIA is their main objective for a base in the bangladesh-NE region, as it will be a good way to destabilize china ( as opposed to in areas of TIbet or Xinjiang, where direct Chinese control is much, much stronger and quicker due to military nodes, etc).

Its interests in the periphery ( Sri Lanka & Maldives) is to create instability, as it would create instability for Chinese freighter traffic, though not to a significant degree as these areas can be bypassed by the Chinese fleet and thus incur a financial cost.

However, America is going to lose. This is because America is making the classic mistake of fighting today's war with yesterday's method. China is not USSR. For one, China is twice the economic size of USSR wrt USA. For two, China isnt severed from the US financial-economic sectors for the US to take punitive economic actions willy-nilly. In today's era of globalisation, China has much more tools to fight the US govt in US (via lobbying through industrial links) than USSR ever did.
Further, there are now effectively 2 strong socio-economic poles (USA and China) and two weak ones ( India and EU), both of which didnt exist in the prior cold war and offer a significant addition of complexity for uncle sam.
While it is easy to think that EU is same as EEC under the old cold war with some expansion, as the ukraine war showed, there is significant divergence in EU and USA now than ever before in USA's ability to co-opt the situation solely for its own benefit.

futher complicating the matter for uncle sam, its economy is in far worse shape overall currently than at any time in history due to its overwhelming debt problem, a scenario that now negatively affects their dollar hegemony control, a decisive function of their winning the prior cold war.

So all in all, uncle sam's odds of winning this one isnt that great.
Click to expand...

i'll add one more layer to this... speculative of course.

muricans continue to make their moves to get land access to south china.

in past decade, from this perspective two most discussed in U.S discourse . vietnam and myanmar (not laos, not cambodia, not thailand).

- U.S-vietnam relationship has been on a upswing in the last decade.

- on myanmar.

when aung-sun-suu-kyi was in government, what was murican discourse focussing on?
chan/shan state which borders with china. they were having trouble negotiating with local military groups there.

when it was getting clear that myanmar army is not budging, what did muricans focus on?
rohingya.

what did myanmar army do to counter this threat?
they dethroned aung-sun-suu-kyi.

how does bangladesh come into the picture from this perspective?
land access to myanmar.

what did china do while all this was going on(especially in the last decade)?
they deepened ties with laos (land locked communist country),
built a submarine base between BoB and myanmar,
increased their investments in vietnam.

how did India get impacted in all this?
- Manipur unrest
- Bangladesh unrest

Screenshot 2024-08-28 at 12.18.04 PM.png
 
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ezsasa said:
i'll add one more layer to this... speculative of course.

muricans continue to make their moves to get land access to south china.

in past decade, from this perspective two most discussed in U.S discourse . vietnam and myanmar (not laos, not cambodia, not thailand).

- U.S-vietnam relationship has been on a upswing in the last decade.

- on myanmar.

when aung-sun-suu-kyi was in government, what was murican discourse focussing on?
chan/shan state which borders with china. they were having trouble negotiating with local military groups there.

when it was getting clear that myanmar army is not budging, what did muricans focus on?
rohingya.

what did myanmar army do to counter this threat?
they dethroned aung-sun-suu-kyi.

how does bangladesh come into the picture from this perspective?
land access to myanmar.

what did china do while all this was going on(especially in the last decade)?
they deepened ties with laos (land locked communist country),
built a submarine base between BoB and myanmar,
increased their investments in vietnam.

how did India get impacted in all this?
- Manipur unrest
- Bangladesh unrest

View attachment 7875
Click to expand...
US has almost won in Myanmar. Check @angryindian's post. No wonder Modiji on the double is doling out contracts after contract to Amrika in order to appease demo party and literally giving them free run - as if its going to appease them.
angryindian

Post in thread 'Myanmar watch'

I would like to update you that the Burmese Army has lost control over much of the Rakhine state which borders Bangladesh.

Myanmar has almost lost control over 85% of its territory and the country's eventual disintegration looks a very real possibility. The repercussions of it on India will be severe.

1724786838091.png
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