LCA TEJAS MK-I & MK-IA: News and Discussion (19 Viewers)

[Pundit Pikachu]

Indian Army is the second-largest military force in the world in terms of equipment, second only to U.S. Army. In terms of manpower, it is the largest in the world. Army receives 52% of India’s total defense budget.

Indian Army’s helicopter fleet is currently relatively small, but it is expected to expand rapidly. The Army is primarily structured with the objective of capturing Pakistani territory in the event of a full-scale war.

Unpopular opinion, For the most part Indian army in particular is nothing more than a job generating avenue by the government for the uneducated grunts of the North Indian hinterland.

We absolutely do not need such a huge army thanks to both parties having nukes and land grab by either party being a nuclear red line.
This is specially true for India, we can not occupy any Pakistani land because of nuclear blackmail and as such cold Start is a shit doctrine in today's context.

So yeah Indian army absolutely should not be the 2nd largest military force in the world, we need to divert those funds towards Navy and airforce

 

[Tumba]

Unpopular opinion, For the most part Indian army in particular is nothing more than a job generating avenue by the government for the uneducated grunts of the North Indian hinterland.

We absolutely do not need such a huge army thanks to both parties having nukes and land grab by either party being a nuclear red line.
This is specially true for India, we can not occupy any Pakistani land because of nuclear blackmail and as such cold Start is a shit doctrine in today's context.

So yeah Indian army absolutely should not be the 2nd largest military force in the world, we need to divert those funds towards Navy and airforce

Indian Army numbers shall never be reduced go for more contract based numbers but numbers is required we are literally facing 3.5 active fronts which can only be managed if Indian Army numbers are increased further

 

[KAB7777]

Indian Army is the second-largest military force in the world in terms of equipment, second only to U.S. Army. In terms of manpower, it is the largest in the world. Army receives 52% of India’s total defense budget.

Indian Army’s helicopter fleet is currently relatively small, but it is expected to expand rapidly. The Army is primarily structured with the objective of capturing Pakistani territory in the event of a full-scale war.

What is your point here? It’s not clear how it is relevant to my post?

 

[redpanda]

Why are we discussing about IA on IAF thread?

 

[liberalredditor]

Why are we discussing about IA on IAF thread?

On tejas mk1/mk1a thread

 

[shade2]

While I agree. Their user is the government. Our user is partly corrupt and partly suffering from MoD dalals. Tbh their user is also dalal but the dalal needs to keep up the strength to even be in power. Totally different kind of set-up. Different kind of circumstances.

Playing as devil advocate for IAF here. Even though I myself has a lot of grievance with their importkhor attitude. Even Navy doesn't really get directly involved in manufacturing. They just make the design, it's company like GRSE, L&T, etc who do the wonder. Navy though do give full support. Now you can say why IAF doesn't do anything like that? Well they kinda do give input, but guess what they have only one option HAL. And HAL has "chalta hai attitude". HAL is somewhat responsible for this strengthening this doubt on own product and importkhori attitude within IAF. Navy and IAF have totally different circumstances even if we ignore the import lobby part. There is no alternative to HAL for IAF.

Absolute weak argument
Navy also had the same issue and still has and it is MDL who builds most of the big destroyers, frigates and conventional submarines.

MDL is Navy's HAL

MDL has retired Admirols and Commodores as board members and chairman and i'm not sure about this but 100% those of lower rank may be managers also.

Then as is standard practice serving officers are deputed to shipyard to monitor the construction( Navy walas used to be blocked from doing this on foreign shipyards like our beloved Ruskals ).

You have such Commodores also popping up as the CMD/CEO whatever of BEL and BDL type DPSUs.

Admirols have such a grip on MDL that via MDL they have built up GRSE for Warship building via the Godavari class of ships, now it's building latest frigates like Nilgiri class.

MDL boys are now going to be sent to HSL to straighten those DPSU babooze to prepare it for conventional submarine buildup

You don't find any Air Marshalls or Airforce walas anywhere meanwhile.

My point is one Force hammered everything into place to build their ships, including straightening lazy union-baazi DPSU employees, and now it's got so good that they pump out double the number of ships earlier, meanwhile another Force only complains about squadrons declining and only has complains.

I am convinced a cure or amelioration of the DPSU problems are to hire some retired uniformed folks to fix those companies from within, maybe even get a uniformed person as the top CMD too, not some IAS baboo, Navy has shown a pattern that can be used.

 

[liberalredditor]

Absolute weak argument
Navy also had the same issue and still has and it is MDL who builds most of the big destroyers, frigates and conventional submarines.

MDL is Navy's HAL

MDL has retired Admirols and Commodores as board members and chairman and i'm not sure about this but 100% those of lower rank may be managers also.

Then as is standard practice serving officers are deputed to shipyard to monitor the construction( Navy walas used to be blocked from doing this on foreign shipyards like our beloved Ruskals ).

You have such Commodores also popping up as the CMD/CEO whatever of BEL and BDL type DPSUs.

Admirols have such a grip on MDL that via MDL they have built up GRSE for Warship building via the Godavari class of ships, now it's building latest frigates like Nilgiri class.

MDL boys are now going to be sent to HSL to straighten those DPSU babooze to prepare it for conventional submarine buildup

You don't find any Air Marshalls or Airforce walas anywhere meanwhile.

My point is one Force hammered everything into place to build their ships, including straightening lazy union-baazi DPSU employees, and now it's got so good that they pump out double the number of ships earlier, meanwhile another Force only complains about squadrons declining and only has complains.

I am convinced a cure or amelioration of the DPSU problems are to hire some retired uniformed folks to fix those companies from within, maybe even get a uniformed person as the top CMD too, not some IAS baboo, Navy has shown a pattern that can be used.

navy is better than import army and import airforce but you should know they arent saint, their indigenous projects are also decades late, if navy babooz are their in shipyards, why dont they get latest mannufacturing and production techniques so that we can churn out destroyers and frigates every 2-2.5 years

 

[randombully]

we can churn out destroyers and frigates every 2-2.5 years

We are, at a lot faster rate than every 2-2.5 year.

 

[randombully]

hire some retired uniformed folks to fix those companies from within, maybe even get a uniformed person as the top CMD too, not some IAS baboo, Navy has shown a pattern that can be used.

I wouldn't trust a previous high level retired IAF folk, those are high level importkhors.

Unlike naval folks.

 

[shade2]

I wouldn't trust a previous high level retired IAF folk, those are high level importkhors.

Unlike naval folks.

Atleast in this way there is no cope excuse of hands-off complaining about "lazy vendor not delivering my plane".
May be importkhors but when the "project" is full responsibility of air force walas, there is no exit, they have to push it through.

Or they have to come to this realization themselves.

Otherwise this will continue, Marut, Tejas, MWF, AMCA delayed on purpose to import a small quantity of wunderwaffe.

 

[liberalredditor]

Atleast in this way there is no cope excuse of hands-off complaining about "lazy vendor not delivering my plane".
May be importkhors but when the "project" is full responsibility of air force walas, there is no exit, they have to push it through.

Or they have to come to this realization themselves.

Otherwise this will continue, Marut, Tejas, MWF, AMCA delayed on purpose to import a small quantity of wunderwaffe.

114 j35 need to be imported so that our squadron strength downfall is controlled, i hope shenyang applies in mrfa

 

[redpanda]

Atleast in this way there is no cope excuse of hands-off complaining about "lazy vendor not delivering my plane".
May be importkhors but when the "project" is full responsibility of air force walas, there is no exit, they have to push it through.

Or they have to come to this realization themselves.

Otherwise this will continue, Marut, Tejas, MWF, AMCA delayed on purpose to import a small quantity of wunderwaffe.

Thing is IN wala joined those org on their own. IAF walas won't do that on their own. + IAF walas can't join HAL even if they wish to. HAL walas hate lateral entry. And will behemothly oppose it. All this while they have severe staff shortage because of the babu recruitment process they have at place. If lateral entry was a thing in HAL, then you would have already seen many pro Indigenous IAF walas (they exists) there by now.

If we had our own LM or Boeing type company then you would have seen many ex-IAF chaps there by now. Because those companies would have provided them with proper money and respect.

That is the best solution to all these problems. Our own Private Aerospace giants who can go against HAL. And even can surpass it. Time will tell which dhando company will become that.

 

[shade2]

Thing is IN wala joined those org on their own. IAF walas won't do that on their own. + IAF walas can't join HAL even if they wish to. HAL walas hate lateral entry. And will behemothly oppose it. All this while they have severe staff shortage because of the babu recruitment process they have at place. If lateral entry was a thing in HAL, then you would have already seen many pro Indigenous IAF walas (they exists) there by now.

If we had our own LM or Boeing type company then you would have seen many ex-IAF chaps there by now. Because those companies would have provided them with proper money and respect.

That is the best solution to all these problems. Our own Private Aerospace giants who can go against HAL. And even can surpass it. Time will tell which dhando company will become that.

Adani already recruits ex-afsars afaik

As i said if IAF wanted they could insert their guys, HAL is their captive vendor after all, Govt gives life support but not orders.

Admirals basically insert these retired navy officers, as we all know DPSU babooze and employees can't be trusted on quality or delivery timelines and so their own guys are added to make sure both quality and timeliness are adhered to( aside from any last minute changes, like changing roosi radar and missile to Yahoodi radar and missile, or making a hull mod to add sonar )

sem2sem as with MDL and GRSE who buy new equipment and improve their processes if Admiral gives them a contract that makes such things mandatory.

Anyway "Today Is Not The Era of Bulk Import" the choice for IAF is whether going with small amount of wunderwaffe import only or large amount of deshi planes which aren't as advanced as foreign counterparts but quantity is quality of it's own.

The Chong will come after us and even if we get 40 F-35 before that it won't be enough.
We need to think beyond the Pakis from today

If anybody is serious they must make a derivative design of MWF with AL-31 engine as base rather than being dependent on GE Engine only

 

[Psacha123]

114 j35 need to be imported so that our squadron strength downfall is controlled, i hope shenyang applies in mrfa

Reminds me of this meme


View: https://x.com/hindookissinger/status/1936005242384232468?s=46

 

[Sanglamorre]

114 j35 need to be imported so that our squadron strength downfall is controlled, i hope shenyang applies in mrfa

You don't know anything.

We have ultra instinct vision. We will delay induction of aircraft as the world moves towards drones. Rest of the militaries will be saddled with useless 5G aircraft while we can skip the whole thing and directly go to drones.

Checkmate

 

[liberalredditor]

You don't know anything.

We have ultra instinct vision. We will delay induction of aircraft as the world moves towards drones. Rest of the militaries will be saddled with useless 5G aircraft while we can skip the whole thing and directly go to drones.

Checkmate

and thats how we saved money by not acquiring 5th gen, 6th gen fighters and straight away jumping on to drone warfare, vishwaguru - the past the future the present

 

[shade2]

You don't know anything.

We have ultra instinct vision. We will delay induction of aircraft as the world moves towards drones. Rest of the militaries will be saddled with useless 5G aircraft while we can skip the whole thing and directly go to drones.

Checkmate

>we leapfrogged from industry to services
sem2sem

RAGHURAM RAJAN, REAL ID SE AAO!

 

[Bleh]

++

I dont see why a design like this

View attachment 41503

wasnt used, like the chinese have. The only thing I can think of is drag issues?

Still, there remains one last issue - Why not tilt this config? Would keep the fin separation while reducing horizontal space.

Noone actually uses these... Other than photoop.

There are severe drag reasons. We tried on Tejas to fit the hammer beside missile.

 

[jaijaganath]

Talked to a guy, he said its more or less confirmed that all 73 mk1a will have Israeli avionics
Keeping apart the sabotage angle, point is right now all organizations are helpless
Bcoz HAL has to place orders today only then they could get avionics in time and deliver the aircrafts
If they wait for DRDO avionics to certify, the order will be delayed due to which after 40th aircraft we will face same issue as today which is due to engines

No pressure tactics from DRDO MoD or even PMO can help saving indigenous avionics
Only hope is for 97 mk1a which will definitely have DRDO avionics

Due to lack of communication and last moment attitude of all the organisations has led to such situation

 

[snakeeyes07]

Talked to a guy, he said its more or less confirmed that all 73 mk1a will have Israeli avionics
Keeping apart the sabotage angle, point is right now all organizations are helpless
Bcoz HAL has to place orders today only then they could get avionics in time and deliver the aircrafts
If they wait for DRDO avionics to certify, the order will be delayed due to which after 40th aircraft we will face same issue as today which is due to engines

No pressure tactics from DRDO MoD or even PMO can help saving indigenous avionics
Only hope is for 97 mk1a which will definitely have DRDO avionics

Due to lack of communication and last moment attitude of all the organisations has led to such situation

I think delivery rate for platforms is what matters more for IAF right now. If the follow on MK1A orders have Uttam and Indian EW, then this is not a show stopper.

PAF will have around 200 JF17 by 2030, so I am pretty sure there will be follow on orders for MK1A to make up IAF numbers.