LCA TEJAS MK-I & MK-IA: News and Discussion

[Azaad]

Sweden has just selected the Brazilian C-390 as its new airlifter and Brazil has just indicated it will buy 9 more Swedish Gripen E fighters. Originally Brazil was expected to buy 2 or 3 batches of 36 Gripen E but its air force (FAB) has been looking into buying a cheaper alternative. 9 more Gripen E would bring the number ordered to 49. That could be all that FAB wants to operate.

FAB has 24 AMX subsonic, short range, light attack aircraft due to retire soon (source Wiki). Tejas Mk1A would be a more appropriate replacement than the larger, more sophisticated Gripen E. If HAL could get its marketing, production and support organised, an order might be achievable with a successful outcome (a happy customer).

At some point HAL has to get some experience in supporting overseas fast jet customers and demonstrate it can do so successfully if it wants to sell Tejas Mk2 to customers other than the IAF. Anyone think the FAB opportunity is worth pursuing?

The only issue is our requirement for a transporter in the category C-390 is participating in is massive .

Whether GoI will expend political capital to get a quid pro quo for a mere 24 nos is debatable & frankly IMO , doubtful .

Btw - how many C-390 did Sweden procure ?

 

[Spitfire IX]

The only issue is our requirement for a transporter in the category C-390 is participating in is massive .

Whether GoI will expend political capital to get a quid pro quo for a mere 24 nos is debatable & frankly IMO , doubtful .

Btw - how many C-390 did Sweden procure ?

I was not talking of Indian involvement in C-390. I was suggesting that there might be an opportunity to export some Mk1A. Gripen E is massive overkill as an AMX replacement. So is Mk2A (but to a lesser extent).

Sweden has 6 C-130H in service (source Wiki). IIRC the oldest was delivered in 1971. It is speculated that the C-390 LOI will result in an order for 3-6 aircraft.

 

[Azaad]

I was not talking of Indian involvement in C-390. I was suggesting that there might be an opportunity of exporting some Mk1A. Gripen E is massive overkill as an AMX replacement. So is Mk2A (but to a lesser extent).

I think that Sweden has about 10 C-130 in service. IIRC the oldest was delivered in 1971. It is speculated that the C-390 LOI will result in an order for 3-6 aircraft.

The way I see it the Brazilian government will expect a quid pro quo for any such deal otherwise I don't see Sweden going in for the C-390s .

IAF's final requirements for the C-390 or whatever they choose is likely to go upto a 100 nos which @ 140-160 million USD / unit would be a cool 14-16 billion USD whereas 25 Mk-1a's will not cost > 2 billion USD.

Besides as of now the IAF has only put out an RFI - Request For Information. Long way to go before they actually sit down to finalize a deal which may be a good 10 years at least if not more.

As far as HAL & GoI are concerned they will definitely be putting in their best efforts even otherwise which is to say without any linkages to the MTA requirement of the IAF.

I haven't followed the Brazilian requirement closely but are they actually looking out for a replacement for their AMX trainers / Light FAs ? AMX trainers in the FAB must be close to 4 decades old so they're definitely close to replacement time

 

[Nutcracker]

I was not talking of Indian involvement in C-390. I was suggesting that there might be an opportunity to export some Mk1A. Gripen E is massive overkill as an AMX replacement. So is Mk2A (but to a lesser extent).

Sweden has 6 C-130H in service (source Wiki). IIRC the oldest was delivered in 1971. It is speculated that the C-390 LOI will result in an order for 3-6 aircraft.

They want something cheap, not so sophisticated. below seems to fit their bill and rumours are also filling the air.
It's also twin engine and under mass production.

Brazil closer to acquiring Italian M-346 jets for Air Force and Navy

Preliminary negotiations have already been held between the two countries.

italianismo.com.br

 

[Spitfire IX]

The way I see it the Brazilian government will expect a quid pro quo for any such deal otherwise I don't see Sweden going in for the C-390s .

IAF's final requirements for the C-390 or whatever they choose is likely to go upto a 100 nos which @ 140-160 million USD / unit would be a cool 14-16 billion USD whereas 25 Mk-1a's will not cost > 2 billion USD.

Besides as of now the IAF has only put out an RFI - Request For Information. Long way to go before they actually sit down to finalize a deal which may be a good 10 years at least if not more.

As far as HAL & GoI are concerned they will definitely be putting in their best efforts even otherwise which is to say without any linkages to the MTA requirement of the IAF.

I haven't followed the Brazilian requirement closely but are they actually looking out for a replacement for their AMX trainers / Light FAs ? AMX trainers in the FAB must be close to 4 decades old so they're definitely close to replacement time

Sweden has announced it has selected C-390 as its new airlifter. Brazil is reported to be buying more Gripen. That is a quid pro quo arrangement.

Had the reports said Brazil was buying another 30 Gripen E as part of the deal, there would be no opportunity open to sell Mk1A and I would not have posted about it in this forum.

 

[AMCA MK1]

Sweden has announced it has selected C-390 as its new airlifter. Brazil is reported to be buying more Gripen. That is a quid pro quo arrangement.

Had the reports said Brazil was buying another 30 Gripen E as part of the deal, there would be no opportunity open to sell Mk1A and I would not have posted about it in this forum.

They will purchase Italian m346 light aircraft.

 

[Blademaster]

Sweden has just selected the Brazilian C-390 as its new airlifter and Brazil has just indicated it will buy 9 more Swedish Gripen E fighters. Originally Brazil was expected to buy 2 or 3 batches of 36 Gripen E but its air force (FAB) has been looking into buying a cheaper alternative. 9 more Gripen E would bring the number ordered to 49. That could be all that FAB wants to operate.

FAB has 24 AMX subsonic, short range, light attack aircraft due to retire soon (source Wiki). Tejas Mk1A would be a more appropriate replacement than the larger, more sophisticated Gripen E. If HAL could get its marketing, production and support organised, an order might be achievable with a successful outcome (a happy customer).

At some point HAL has to get some experience in supporting overseas fast jet customers and demonstrate it can do so successfully if it wants to sell Tejas Mk2 to customers other than the IAF. Anyone think the FAB opportunity is worth pursuing?

No one is touching Tejas until India and HAL has sorted out its engine issues. That’s the sad truth.

 

[shade2]

No one is touching Tejas until India and HAL has sorted out its engine issues. That’s the sad truth.

*No one is touching Tejas till the IAF itself inducts it in large numbers, the engine issue may pass but these nakhras of the Imported Air Force remain a long term cancer.

Since independence the Indian Navy knew they will get the least budget so they started building towards designing and building ships so they can keep their force in tip-top fighting shape since imported ships would be expensive, today they don't keep crying about the naval equivalent of MUH SQUADRONS DECLINING SAAAAARRR since most of the fleet is Made in India with more ships coming in the future and maybe conventional submarines also.

It also stands head and shoulders above the PN which likewise was budget-starved but were too incompetent to embark on a domestic building journey

 

[705-Lira]

*No one is touching Tejas till the IAF itself inducts it in large numbers, the engine issue may pass but these nakhras of the Imported Air Force remain a long term cancer.

Since independence the Indian Navy knew they will get the least budget so they started building towards designing and building ships so they can keep their force in tip-top fighting shape since imported ships would be expensive, today they don't keep crying about the naval equivalent of MUH SQUADRONS DECLINING SAAAAARRR since most of the fleet is Made in India with more ships coming in the future and maybe conventional submarines also.

It also stands head and shoulders above the PN which likewise was budget-starved but were too incompetent to embark on a domestic building journey

Given the long build times and technological complexities of building ACs, DDGs, FFGs, Submarines, etc. the Navy has no other option but to have a detailed outlook of its force structure at present and 2 decades down the line and which is exactly why their planning is top tier barring a few areas.

 

[NerVik]

*No one is touching Tejas till the IAF itself inducts it in large numbers, the engine issue may pass but these nakhras of the Imported Air Force remain a long term cancer.

Since independence the Indian Navy knew they will get the least budget so they started building towards designing and building ships so they can keep their force in tip-top fighting shape since imported ships would be expensive, today they don't keep crying about the naval equivalent of MUH SQUADRONS DECLINING SAAAAARRR since most of the fleet is Made in India with more ships coming in the future and maybe conventional submarines also.

It also stands head and shoulders above the PN which likewise was budget-starved but were too incompetent to embark on a domestic building journey

I know i am stretching and going off topic, but the praise we heap on IN is it worthy? Yes they initiated ship building in India, domesticated the process. But we are still importing significant percentage of critical items (in terms of $ % of ship cost). It's time IN and psus start delivering on these critical items (radars, rbu replacement, main guns, ciws, ad systems, arrestor systems for ac, engines, gear boxes). They showed the path with domesticating ship building, now they can't rest on those achievements and let things be as is. They need to build on it and start domestication of the other critical systems. They need to deliver and start integrating home grown technologies into home build ships. IMO we should stop praising navy for past laurels (they are now past achievements). If they wish to continue the legacy of being the torch bearers for indegenization then they need to deliver on the critical components we still import. If they delay it any longer, they run the risk of being tagged in same category as the imported air force and army

 

[Blood+]

I know i am stretching and going off topic, but the praise we heap on IN is it worthy? Yes they initiated ship building in India, domesticated the process. But we are still importing significant percentage of critical items (in terms of $ % of ship cost). It's time IN and psus start delivering on these critical items (radars, rbu replacement, main guns, ciws, ad systems, arrestor systems for ac, engines, gear boxes). They showed the path with domesticating ship building, now they can't rest on those achievements and let things be as is. They need to build on it and start domestication of the other critical systems. They need to deliver and start integrating home grown technologies into home build ships. IMO we should stop praising navy for past laurels (they are now past achievements). If they wish to continue the legacy of being the torch bearers for indegenization then they need to deliver on the critical components we still import. If they delay it any longer, they run the risk of being tagged in same category as the imported air force and army

They are doing that right now as we speak.

 

[NerVik]

They are doing that right now as we speak.

Lots of projects ongoing, agree, I am stressing the need to push them to production.

 

[Blood+]

Lots of projects ongoing, agree, I am stressing the need to push them to production.

Yeah, we all are.

 

[shade2]

I know i am stretching and going off topic, but the praise we heap on IN is it worthy? Yes they initiated ship building in India, domesticated the process. But we are still importing significant percentage of critical items (in terms of $ % of ship cost). It's time IN and psus start delivering on these critical items (radars, rbu replacement, main guns, ciws, ad systems, arrestor systems for ac, engines, gear boxes). They showed the path with domesticating ship building, now they can't rest on those achievements and let things be as is. They need to build on it and start domestication of the other critical systems. They need to deliver and start integrating home grown technologies into home build ships. IMO we should stop praising navy for past laurels (they are now past achievements). If they wish to continue the legacy of being the torch bearers for indegenization then they need to deliver on the critical components we still import. If they delay it any longer, they run the risk of being tagged in same category as the imported air force and army

Most of those aren't their job directly but they collaborate with the relevant sarkari orgs coming under DRDO to get those done.

Unlike the other Imported wings pretending to be "customer" making bogus (((specifications))) asking for over 9000 trials, bringing our new (((requirements))) asking for over 9000 trials again, then "ordering" only only a small amount.

Tejas has mostly imported stuff apart from the airframe, but still Imported Air Force was dragging their feet about it, now that they know there is Engine supply chain boogaloo they are asking (((Why is HAL delaying deliveries)))

At the end of the day both the Imported Air Force and Imported Army are non-serious organizations, they don't care about their wing's war figthing capability, you can even compare Army's Para SF boys to Navy's MARCOS boys for example, the latter is better equipped, better fed etc

You would normally expect the wings which will face our adversaries the most in our conflict to be in tip-top state( IAF, IA ) but the wing that will face the adversaries the least to be slackers ( IN ) but in this Clown nation it's the other way around.

Only the pain of defeat at war will change this state of affairs is what i've sadly realized