MMRCA 2.0: News & Discussions

[Spitfire IX]

KF-21 is a nice aero show jet : so far it has absolutely no weapon system (ie a multimode radar that works with the electronical counter measures system without jamming each other, a sensor fusion that works without too much false alarm, a powerfull threat data base, etc....)
Remember the time needed to transform Rafale in a mature fighter, same for F35.
KF-21 may be fully effective in 10 years, at best.

How do you know that the radar on KF-21 and ECM jam each other?

When you say that it has absolutely no weapons systems, what about Iris-T and Meteor?

 

[Brood Father]

Below are logical options
Umrican jets ..Nope , umrican are not reliable at all ..at any point they can come out of the deal and that could be disaster

Russian jets ..Nope , Russia though reliable , their technology isn't , and we have rejected their bids earlier as well .

Euro (Rafales) ..Could be but unlikely , france is reliable and their technology is also very reliable .. but they have a big order book and also there is a issue related to GAN ..

Euro (EFT) ..Could be but unlikely.. Countries Reliability unknown as it is a consortium rather than one single country .very good jet , not a big order book and have GAN based radar as well but since it is a consortium managing all countries to agree on our needs will be a challenge . Plus we need additional cost to build the infrastructure and weapon package (again consortium challenges)

Euro (Saab Gripen) . unlikely ..they are ready to make in India in short notice ..do not have a big order book and have sorted radar issue
But question remains , why Gripen and not Tejas Mk2 if they are all the same
Ahh and engine in Gripen is umrican , so we are back to chicken and egg story..

So , unless there is a jet which we don't know about which is reliable from a reliable partner and can be manufactured in India in short notice we are looking at another babugiri here ..

 

[Spitfire IX]

So , unless there is a jet which we don't know about which is reliable from a reliable partner and can be manufactured in India in short notice we are looking at another babugiri here ..

There is one we do know about. It was supposed to start being delivered to IAF pre-2020. It is called Tejas Mk2.

 

[samsaptaka]

Why is the alternate plan of using M88 safran core in kaveri to get required thrust not being pursued. This can be used to power Tejas MK1a or Mk2 till Fully indig Kaveri is ready . Meanwhile keep using GE engines.

 

[BON PLAN]

What would be the point of integrating UTTAM on Rafale? Sounds like integration for its own sake. If it works, don't fix it (and spend lots of money in the process).

Do UTTAM has the same weight and size than RBE2 ? weight = Fly by Wire accomodation, and size....
Do UTTAM has the space available in the middle to integrate the OSF IR & optical systems?
There is a huge job to do to replace RBE2 by UTTAM for sensor fusion and to be sure that the new radar and Spectra will not jam each other. It is a multi year program in anechoide chamber and real flights.
The link for mid course refreashing datas for MICA and mainly Meteor is to be made through LAM (in french Liaison Avion Missile = link between jet and missile)
etc....

Just for a couple of birds? All is possible, but if you want an absolutely not affordable jet, it is the way to follow.

Just see how the new engine program for Jaguar failed. It is in the same league.

 

[BON PLAN]

Why is the alternate plan of using M88 safran core in kaveri to get required thrust not being pursued. This can be used to power Tejas MK1a or Mk2 till Fully indig Kaveri is ready . Meanwhile keep using GE engines.

Because the core is the main part of an engine ! If you just add a new after burner section, the game is not worth the effort.
Better purchase the complete engine.

And, between you and me, the Kaveri last main problem is with after burner. The dry Kaveri is running and will be used in UCAV.

 

[samsaptaka]

Better purchase the complete engine

Maybe we really should think about this as Plan B seriously if US of A (GE) continuously delays engine deliveries. But as previously mentioned by many members it would involve redesign of various aspects of Tejas and a huge effort. So maybe in this case the game is worth it (to fit M88 core into Kaveri)

 

[BON PLAN]

How do you know that the radar on KF-21 and ECM jam each other?

I don't know, but the korean have to check that, and it takes time (in anechoic chamber, in flight. It takes years to fine tune that on Rafale, on EF2000, on F35. So it will be the case for KF-21)
On a bird that made its maiden flight 2 years ago, the weapon system is all but not mature.

But once fine tune, I'm sure it will be a nice jet, as all the south korean weapons.

 

[Bleh]

A thread to discuss everything about Indian Air Force's highly ambitious MRCA competition and tender - now post Rafale times

We're not very sure Rafale is done...

IAF could settle for 90 Additional Rafales to Meet Long-Standing Requirements – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

 

[705-Lira]

We're not very sure Rafale is done...

IAF could settle for 90 Additional Rafales to Meet Long-Standing Requirements – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Atleast a $20 billion expenditure with long drawn out delivery timelines, difficult it will happen since GOI wants an open tender to avoid being dragged into controversies

 

[shade2]

Atleast a $20 billion expenditure with long drawn out delivery timelines, difficult it will happen since GOI wants an open tender to avoid being dragged into controversies

by the time this MRFA is done, Chings, Burgers and Euros/Japs will be fielding 6th gen righters with lasers n sheeit.

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

In my opinion, why we r not forwarding in MRFA program:-
1:- we see pakistan real threat, who fought us 4 wars nd proxy wars regularly. In chinese case we r not seeing full scale war nd proxy wars...unless china is stupid enough to try to gulp ladhakh, arunanchal in nuclear bombs age..just like they did against tibbet.
2:- against pakistan we hv good 4 nd 4.5 genration fighters number. if we remove 3 nd 3.5 genration aircrafts, which i dont think very useful in wars. they can only be useful after anyone destroyed enemy air defense nd airforce or project complete air dominance in enemy air space.
pakistani air force ======
1:- f16 block 50/52 = 75 (4 genration).
2:- jf 17 block 1, 2 nd 3 = 50+62+26+50
= 188 (4 genration).
3:- j10 c = 36 (4.5 genration).
so total aircraft = 299 aircrafts approx.

indian air force =======
1:- mirage 2000 = 49 (4 genration).
2:- mig 29 = 68 (4 genration).
3:- tejas 1 = 40 (4 genration).
4:- su 30 mki = 260+12 (4 genration).
5:- rafale = 36 (4.5 genration).
6:- tejas mark 1a = 83 (4 genration) order.
so total = 548 approx aircrafts

chinese air force =======
1:- su 27 = 78 (4 genration).
2:- su 30 = 90 (4 genration).
3:- j10 = 565 (4 nd 4.5 genration).
4:- j11 = 225 (4 genration).
5:- j16 = 300 (4.5 genration).
6:- j20 = 300 (5 genration).
7:- su 35 = 24 (4 genration).
so total = 1582 capable fighters.

so against pakistan india hv 1.8 times more capable fighters. meanwhile chinese hv near 1600 fighters in 4, 4.5 nd 5 genration. so they hv 3 times more capable fighters than us. In pakistan nd india case i added even ordered fighters, which not in production right now...thats why i think IAF isnt in hurry. they stopped to think about competing with china. .

 

[silentassassin265]

So , unless there is a jet which we don't know about which is reliable from a reliable partner and can be manufactured in India in short notice we are looking at another babugiri here ..

Only option remaining is j31 from China they have both the capacity as well as technology

 

[vin pahadi (kumauni)]

Only option remaining is j31 from China they have both the capacity as well as technology

turkey 5 genration kaan can be option as well...

 

[shade2]

Only option remaining is j31 from China they have both the capacity as well as technology

turkey 5 genration kaan can be option as well...

 

[BON PLAN]

turkey 5 genration kaan can be option as well...

no for 3 reasons :
with US engines,
far far beeing FOC,
built by a muslim country.

 

[shade2]

no for 3 reasons :
with US engines,
far far beeing FOC,
built by a muslim country.

They are joking mon ami