Operation Sindoor & Aftermath (80 Viewers)

[Interested]

IFR probes on Mirage 2000 don't look like that. Engine was reminiscent of a RD93 and not a Snecma M53. Intake geometry matched with JF 17's DSI.

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There was never any confirmed 2 seaters. From what I have observed, it seems 1 Rafale (Akilan Khurd), 1 Mig 29 (Ramban), 1 Mig 29 (Akhnoor) and 1 JF 17 (Pampore).

At Ramban or Akhnoor ( both locations seem mixed up a lot ) the villagers talked about 2 chutes, that's where the rumor of a Su 30 down came from . But the crash site is way too small for a MKI crash .

 

[vampyrbladez]

At Ramban or Akhnoor ( both locations seem mixed up a lot ) the villagers talked about 2 chutes, that's where the rumor of a Su 30 down came from . But the crash site is way too small for a MKI crash .

They said they heard it from the Army. No visual confirmation. Hence fog of war.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

The examples he has shown show that engines of twin engine fighter jets need not be lying side by side.. They would be near by though, not in the same frame..
Now, you talk about "ACCEPTED and settled air crash investigation".. w.r.t fighter aircraft.
Can such a thing happen w r.t fighter aircraft of warring parties ? Will there be any Public investigation by India on fighter aircraft crashed in Punjab and Ramban. ? Nope .

It does happen with warring parties- at least 20 downed jets in ukraine-russia conflict have been accepted by both sides and all twin engine crashes have engines side by side. And same goes for all peace time crashes due to pilot error or mechanical failures. Engines do not come undone from the central spine riveting, nor do they get destroyed easily.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Look at the pictures in this post, https://defenceforumbharat.com/threads/operation-sindoor-aftermath.856/post-182721


F16 picture was for context that engine/engines can fall away from main wreckage.

Engine falling away from main wreckage is already acknowledged by me. But engines DO NOT SEPARATE from one another in central reveting and BOTH engines fall at same place. Always. 100% of the time. I even said you can vaporize the front section and wings of the plane but STILL both engines Wil fall together and stay attached.

 

[snakeeyes07]

Engine falling away from main wreckage is already acknowledged by me. But engines DO NOT SEPARATE from one another in central reveting and BOTH engines fall at same place. Always. 100% of the time. I even said you can vaporize the front section and wings of the plane but STILL both engines Wil fall together and stay attached.

Look at the pictures again and focus on SU-25, SU-30MKI and 2x MIG-29 photos.
https://defenceforumbharat.com/threads/operation-sindoor-aftermath.856/post-182721

 

[snakeeyes07]

Because then you would have to give a blow by blow account of every single aircraft lost on your side as well.

The Indian Army did come out acknowledging a Mirage III/V kill.

We have video and satellite imagery confirming a C 130J destroyed (Nur Khan), SAAB 2000 AWACS destroyed. F 16 destroyed (Bholari) as well as the JF 17 taken out in Pampore.


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I'm not even going to go into the S400 kill at 315Km against a DA 20/ AWACS at Dinga, Gujrat Province in their airspace.

Do you see the Pakistanis coming out to acknowledge their losses? It's this Indian Gandhian retard mentality which takes a 'moral' stance.

The West knows this and thus tries to use this to deflect the ass whooping received by Pakistan.

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Dolund's comments were deliberately ambiguous and came near the Monsoon Parliamentary Session after India-US trade deal stopped due to no agreement of NTBs.

I don't think they are inter related, DG AirOps could just say what he did that there are losses in combat scenario and that they won't disclose the type and number of losses as we are not going to do BDA for PAF. At the same time, assuming if there were PAF fighters down inside India, IMO he would have shown pictures or pieces of debris (as he did with satellite imagery/BDA after IAF strikes).

I think the government has made IAF losses a bogeyman for itself, if they had just acknowledged IAF losses in due time (with details as it happens with USAF/NATO losses) then now focus would have been on:
- Precise strikes with proof in Pakistan proper against terrorist targets. Destruction of Muridke and Bahawalpur complex which destroyed the feeling of invincibility that Pakistan establishment had towards these complexes.
- Drone ops and in specific how sophisticated and well run were SEAD ops using them. IA/IAF demonstrated complete superiority in this aspect.
- Indian air defense was superior in how it nullified PA/PAF drone ops and PAF SOW strike ops.
- Then on May 9-10th, IAF strikes were awe inspiring when it targeted using Scalp, Rampage & :

• Nur khan [Their most strategic airbase. HQ-9B battery was active 0.7km away from target. Close proximity to GHQ, SPD, Kahuta, etc.]
• Murid [fulcrum of Turkish origin UAV ops]
• RYK
• Bholari
• Sukkur [fulcrum of PRC origin UAV ops]
• Sargodha [Historically their main fighter airbase with training academy & establishment (TACDE equivalent), fulcrum of PAF air ops]
• Jacobabad

- India by May 10th had escalation dominance. That is it was ready to keep climbing the ladder. The statement by DG Naval Ops supports this and had Pakistan responded then IN would enter the scene.

 

[snakeeyes07]

I want the government to go in a crisis mode (public pressure can make that happen) to make funds available to IAF, cut MOD delays and maybe engage with Israel & Russia for Sky Sting and R-37M (and their quick integration).

I am sure IAF would be evaluating the lessons learnt, they have all sorts of Radar, SIGINT and ELINT data from that initial engagement. Or maybe some of that already happened as there was no/limited PAF response on May9-10.

PAF kind of showed their hand, whatever it was that initially took IAF by surprise, I am just speculating that it could be Chinese satellite link or AEW&Cs guiding missiles. I am sure PAF will also make changes and adjustments but the core capabilities with PL-15 (Chinese weapons) are now known.

If you ask me, if these IAF losses eventually make it more modern combat ready then the experience gained is worth it. But for that IAF needs to go in a kind of do or die/survival mode (come out of sab changa he mode). It is better getting an opportunity now to improve then to realize deficiencies during full fledged war against PLAAF & PAF.

 

[vampyrbladez]

I don't think they are inter related, DG AirOps could just say what he did that there are losses in combat scenario and that they won't disclose the type and number of losses as we are not going to do BDA for PAF. At the same time, assuming if there were PAF fighters down inside India, IMO he would have shown pictures or pieces of debris (as he did with satellite imagery/BDA after IAF strikes).

I think the government has made IAF losses a bogeyman for itself, if they had just acknowledged IAF losses in due time (with details as it happens with USAF/NATO losses) then now focus would have been on:
- Precise strikes with proof in Pakistan proper against terrorist targets. Destruction of Muridke and Bahawalpur complex which destroyed the feeling of invincibility that Pakistan establishment had towards these complexes.
- Drone ops and in specific how sophisticated and well run were SEAD ops using them. IA/IAF demonstrated complete superiority in this aspect.
- Indian air defense was superior in how it nullified PA/PAF drone ops and PAF SOW strike ops.
- Then on May 9-10th, IAF strikes were awe inspiring when it targeted using Scalp, Rampage & :

• Nur khan [Their most strategic airbase. HQ-9B battery was active 0.7km away from target. Close proximity to GHQ, SPD, Kahuta, etc.]
• Murid
• RYK
• Bholari
• Sukkur
• Sargodha [Historically their main fighter airbase with training academy & establishment (TACDE equivalent), fulcrum of PAF air ops]
• Jacobabad

- India by May 10th had escalation dominance. That is it was ready to keep climbing the ladder. The statement by DG Naval Ops supports this and had Pakistan responded then IN would enter the scene.

You acknowledge the PAF crash at Pampore, next one is OK what about the ones at Akhnoor, Ramban and Akila Khurid?

Assume you acknowledge that next question is how were they shot down? Ok, next why were they shot down? Ok, next tell us about your ORBAT and military escalation matrix? Ok, next what is your plan to plug said gaps and what would you have done differently?

Next in the firing line would be GoI and MoD. Next would be should we have actually done Operation Sindoor? Were there any Track 2 channels to 'de-escalate' things (MEA guys are super excited)?

It's a very slippery slope. You play to your strengths and leave the military to its business. I can guarantee MEA was responsible in convincing Modi to tie IAF's hands. Look at which 'laser eyed' leader has since disappeared from the headlines.

 

[snakeeyes07]

You acknowledge the PAF crash at Pampore, next one is OK what about the ones at Akhnoor, Ramban and Akila Khurid?

Assume you acknowledge that next question is how were they shot down? Ok, next why were they shot down? Ok, next tell us about your ORBAT and military escalation matrix? Ok, next what is your plan to plug said gaps and what would you have done differently?

Next in the firing line would be GoI and MoD. Next would be should we have actually done Operation Sindoor? Were there any Track 2 channels to 'de-escalate' things (MEA guys are super excited)?

It's a very slippery slope. You play to your strengths and leave the military to its business. I can guarantee MEA was responsible in convincing Modi to tie IAF's hands. Look at which 'laser eyed' leader has since disappeared from the headlines.

Let's agree to disagree. IAF/government can avoid saying a lot of things by mentioning that these are operational or national security matter.

Also there is a need to consider potential loss of national credibility in international sphere.

Re Next would be should we have actually done Operation Sindoor?

I think precedence is now set at least as long as BJP is in power, there would be kinetic response to major terror attack originating from Pakistan. IMO it depends on scale of losses in terror attack but if it is significant then the kinetic response would also be significant (more than Op Sindoor 1st phase).

 

[Viper316]

Expectations are high as works are done in back stage for a big announcement on Aug 5. Multiple journalist had already dropped hints. high-level secret meetings, sudden administrative changes, large-scale troop movements, missile tests, and unscheduled political chatter. suggest that the Modi government is preparing for a significant and potentially major announcement or action in the coming days. Is it restoring statehood to J&K ?

 

[vampyrbladez]

Let's agree to disagree. You can avoid saying a lot of things by mentioning that these are operational or national security matter.

Re Next would be should we have actually done Operation Sindoor?

I think precedence is now set at least as long as BJP is in power, there would be kinetic response to major terror attack originating from Pakistan. IMO it depends on scale of losses in terror attack but if it is significant then the kinetic response would also be significant (more than Op Sindoor 1st phase).

Given Pindi's statements, it seems that they really have no counter for a massive conventional strike post any kind of terror attack by India.

After 10th May 2025, they came to the horrific realisation that their HQ9 was useless against a SEAD/DEAD campaign and could be taken out with loitering munitions.

They also found out that they have NO WAY to counter the BrahMos and an extremely conservative productive figure puts the stockpile at 4500 - 7000 units. That is a near apocalyptic scenario given their lack of strategic depth due to their horrible geography.

India's only mistakes during this conflict are :

• Not going after military targets on Day 1
• Lack of cohesive narrative control post ceasefire
• Being 'chivalrous' against a dishonest and weak enemy

 

[indrajit]

View: https://youtu.be/CKHE-kCsQus?si=6Ll_hISbBfaJ-Jaw

 

[snakeeyes07]

Given Pindi's statements, it seems that they really have no counter for a massive conventional strike post any kind of terror attack by India.

After 10th May 2025, they came to the horrific realisation that their HQ9 was useless against a SEAD/DEAD campaign and could be taken out with loitering munitions.

They also found out that they have NO WAY to counter the BrahMos and an extremely conservative productive figure puts the stockpile at 4500 - 7000 units. That is a near apocalyptic scenario given their lack of strategic depth due to their horrible geography.

India's only mistakes during this conflict are :

• Not going after military targets on Day 1
• Lack of cohesive narrative control post ceasefire
• Being 'chivalrous' against a dishonest and weak enemy

They have inducted more batteries of HQ16s recently.

IAF's brahmos should be able to make it through with a larger volley size. In Op Sindoor, volley size was just 2-4 missiles per target.
I think Rudram 2 & 3 will also be a game changer, imagine a TOT attack with coming in and around the same time you have Rudram going in for the FCR of HQ16 or HQ9 batteries. Pakistan AD will be in dilemma whether to save the battery or defend the base.

Also forgot about brahmos-ng (another game changer), with that you could have a 4 ship SU-30 MKI carry 16-20 missiles.

 

[Hindaviswarajya]

The investment managers of european royal families Rothschild and his family & friends & partners felt that after WW2, Europe was almost bankrupt and they shifted their investments to the newly emerging nation America.

America based Rockefeller and JP Morgan joined them

The new Economic Illuminati was born.

They used their intelligence and finance to tackle and convince all the political and feudal heads and families of the individual states of america to be aligned with them or partner them

Till 2012, they ruled the world.

Deep State's political head Obama's 2 nd term , DS went overboard and became more hegemonic.

That led to their slide.

Trump was elected in 2016 despite all their max efforts.

The DS and China joined together to unleash Covid across the world to kill all the economies of the world including that of USA & Europe.

Obama and Hillary administered USA govt with Biden as the facade for the public.

But many of the DS evil schemes went awry due to the rising consciousness across the world about the hegemony of Deep State run USA.

Ukraine war was started by DS to bleed Russia economically and militarily and remove Putin and bring their own chela ( anyone from selected russian oligarches)

There was another major aim to kill european economy by cutting the russian oil and gas supply to them and make them starve for food ( Ukraine was Europe's bread basket)

DS wanted the entire european countries to be their vassal states

DS also wanted the huge natural resources of Russia at dirt cheap prices.

DS earned lots of profits due to Ukraine war by

selling weapons at 5 X prices ,

Selling Bharat processed russian petrol, diesel, aviation fuel etc at high prices

Earned hell a lot of insurance premium from maritime trade sector

Sold food products with high profits in USA and Europe

After the scope of making profits from Ukraine war started diminishing, they instigated a middle east war

DS and Israel generally work together in many joint secret projects in the middle east

But the DS found Netanyahu as a fierce nationalist and not yielding to their globalist agenda.

So they gave funds to Iran and through them to Hamas, Hezbollah and Houthies to strike at Israel and start a war

They could make more money by selling more arms to all sides

and also they used the Oct 7 incident against Bibi Netanyahu to remove him as PM

They briefly succeeded in replacing Bibi with Shefali Bennet

But Netanyahu proved too smart for them and he came back to power

Trumps second term added more obstacles to their agenda.

USA govt funds to DS social engg entities , NGOs etc were cut hugely

DS wants Iran's oil resources under their control and so they are trying to do regime change in Iran.

So far, they have not succeeded.

Even during Ukraine war, Russia despite the sanctions survived and grew its economy with the help of China and Bharat.

So DS opened a new war front and instigated their lapdog Pakistan to strike at Pahalgam with Chinese help.

But Bharat' s response was not as per their expectations.

Bharat restricted itself with striking at 9 terrorist camps on the first day.

So the DS and China asked Pakistan to strike the religious places like Amritsar golden mandir, Vaishno Devi etc to incite inter religious civil wars and also the new parliament complex at Delhi to spite Modi govt.

But Bharat destroyed all their plans and schemes by its superior military power and tech prowess.

Bharat even went one step more to strike at the Noor Khan airbase which was under USA pentagon control.

More than 300 top Pakistan military officers and quite a few american military officers were vaporised by the missiles in their Central Air command underground facility which was controlling all their Air Defence systems and nuke missiles deployment.

DS managed to tame Trump by using the Epstein files and Trump was forced to play along with DS against Bharat.

Bharat also defied Trump's hegemonical diktats in trade deal and still Trump is unable to close the trade deal with Bharat

Bharat deals with USA on issue and transaction basis now

Meanwhile Modi, Jaishankar and Doval managed to tackle the DS fin invest entities by promising them good returns on their investments and that division of DS is aligned with Modi govt now.

But the DS found Modi also as a fierce nationalist against their globalist agenda.

So they attempted regime change in 2024 lok sabha poll but failed.

Now DS may use North east and Bangladesh to keep Bharat and Modi under check.

Manipur problem was instigated

Pentagon wants Bharat on its side against China, but State dept , CIA which are under the control of DS favour their financial partners of China ( Hu Jintao and other top brass of CCP who are against Xi)

So DS and Pentagon are at loggerheads in Bangladesh and Myanmar but this instability there affects Bharat too.

We need to wait and see how Bharat tackles China and USA ( Pakistan is a non entity - more like mosquito bites militarily)
#KannanRamasamy

 

[vampyrbladez]

They have inducted more batteries of HQ16s recently.

IAF's brahmos should be able to make it through with a larger volley size. In Op Sindoor, volley size was just 2-4 missiles per target.
I think Rudram 2 & 3 will also be a game changer, imagine a TOT attack with coming in and around the same time you have Rudram going in for the FCR of HQ16 or HQ9 batteries. Pakistan AD will be in dilemma whether to save the battery or defend the base.

Also forgot about brahmos-ng (another game changer), with that you could have a 4 ship SU-30 MKI carry 16-20 missiles.

I hope they make a HQ 16 based AD and not buy the HQ 19 or HQ 9. That would be wonderful. It's as useless at intercepting sea skimming AShM as the Shtil-1 and the Sea Viper.

They lost an HQ 16 battery at Lahore which I think may have been responsible for the Rafale. So not surprising that they are choosing to restock.

Next time they will have multiple LORA(s) and BrahMos hitting their HVTs. Indian loitering munitions have proved themselves during this conflict.

 

[snakeeyes07]

View: https://youtu.be/CKHE-kCsQus?si=6Ll_hISbBfaJ-Jaw

So pretty much most of the Pakistan's underground Command Center are only around 10-20m deep (from ground to roof). AGNI-5 based penetrator will be an overkill for such depth, based on Hyunmoo-5 spec it's penetration should be ~100m.

Maybe a smaller and cheaper AGNI-P based penetrator is also needed with around 20-25m penetration capability.

Imagine just the introduction of such weapons will leave most of their underground storage, C2 centers redundant. Waste of so much investment by them.

 

[hurrians]

Cong Gives Adjournment Notice in LS, seeks Debate on Pahalgam, Op Sindoor

Congress Rajya Sabha MP Randeep Surjewala submitted a Suspension of Business notice under Rule 267 to discuss the Pahalgam terror attack and Operation Sindoor in Rajya Sabha

www.deccanchronicle.com

.it would have been better if "disclosure" happened to ani/Manoj Gupta/snehesh alex philips/abhinandan mishra et al instead of to gora media in far away Shangri-La
.why would french intelligence leak to cnn and then french cry "chinese tried to sabotaged sales" - it seems Dassault is in politics
.going back to L-shaped ambush discussion in ci-ct thread , kumaoni had predicted that it was handiwork of SSG and what was required was drg/cobra style domination of forests/peaks
.instead of Praveen Sawhney (who of course predicts chinese sensor fusion and satellite prowess but does in a Chinese kung fu movie level exaggerated way) doesn't goi have any analysts who could have predicted chinese satellite help and so called "kill chain" (if it happened)
.no one can stop trump from bragging, we are dependent on china us and Russia for lot of things ,but trump has been bragging about trade deal and pappu bhai prematurely announced that moodiji will capitulate to trump threats

Having said so however,
May 2025 was the month India ended it's so called strategic restraint/called out pakis bluff/crossed all paki red lines short of seizing paki land/"kept in abeyance" SWT/ gave a good beating to PAF .

The civilian gov was forced to confer marshal status and trump had to offer lunch to munira to stop pak from getting further beatings.

 

[Nutcracker]

Expectations are high as works are done in back stage for a big announcement on Aug 5. Multiple journalist had already dropped hints. high-level secret meetings, sudden administrative changes, large-scale troop movements, missile tests, and unscheduled political chatter. suggest that the Modi government is preparing for a significant and potentially major announcement or action in the coming days. Is it restoring statehood to J&K ?

Or my wishful thinking says it is about bifurcation, to give Jammu a complete statehood, and keeping K-police under center. Maybe it turns out to be a nothing burger. As per my assessment restoring J&K statehood is out of the window after caging Baddullah troons into house arrest few days back.

 

[vidhwanshak]

here.. I am saying this is the wreckage..

AFAIK, I think a soldier already called it an Indian Aircraft in a video that was shared over social media.

 

[vidhwanshak]

View attachment 43841

Paki army will admit fuck all. Inbreds were keeping count of downed Indian jets on the front pages of their newspapers during the Indo pak war of 1971 - where they would make all sorts of crazy claims on a daily basis.

Gora media won't cover shit because the sanctity of F-16 would be protected at any cost.

In that hangar, was it F-16 OR an AWACS ?