Pahalgam Islamic Terror Attack

JConline said:
I don't understand this unnecessary jingoism going on around this. Even ex-military personnel are shouting like the dogs of war that Pakistan wants to portray us as. The real strategists are calm and collected. Even on this thread, people need to understand that the only viable way to destroy a country from its roots is to rot its economy into oblivion. We've seen the US try and do a military takeover and what the consequences have been. We are the people of Kautilya. The steps that have been taken till now will choke Pakistan in the next 10 years if they don't fix themselves. Then they won't have even the most basic natural resources. That's the real game here. And there will be substantial kinetic action, possibly to take back PoK, and done in a way that dwarfs whatever Pakistan can retaliate with so that the Pakistani terror apparatus is shamed and essentially rendered crippled, both in terms of public support and capability. And something of this nature has to be a very calibrated military action. The nuclear deterrent always has to be kept in mind. We, in our jingoism assume that Paki warheads in Chinese missiles are worthless but military strategists cannot afford that luxury.
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Very well said. Disintegrating pakistan should be our objective and it will take a co-ordinated consistent persistence over a long perioid. A head to head war may be short but it also is harmful to us. If we play with their supply lines, shrink their supplies, the pakistan state will crumble under its own weight.

Whent the state crumbles into smaller countries we can piece by piece extend our geographical boundaries to the Indus.
 
LETHALFORCE said:
www.jagranjosh.com

India vs. Pakistan Military Strength: A Detailed Analysis of Army, Navy and Air Force

This analysis compares the armed forces (army, navy, and air force) of India and Pakistan, examining their respective capabilities and strategic advantages.
www.jagranjosh.com www.jagranjosh.com

India vs Pakistan Military Strength: Land Power​

When we look at land power, India has more tanks and armoured vehicles than Pakistan. India has 4,201 tanks, while Pakistan has 2,627. India also has a lot more armoured vehicles (148,594) compared to Pakistan (17,516).
However, Pakistan has more self-propelled artillery (662) and mobile rocket projectors (600) than India, which has 100 and 264, respectively.
India does have more towed artillery guns (3,975) than Pakistan (2,629). So, while India has more of some ground weapons, Pakistan has more of others.

Weapon TypeIndiaPakistan
Tank Strength4,2012,627
Armored Vehicles148,59417,516
Self-Propelled Artillery100662
Towed Artillery3,9752,629
Mobile Rocket Projectors264600
we have focused to heavily on armor, while many are moving away from armor to air UAV's and attack helicopters. Kickbacks from russians are clearly visible.
Click to expand...
As the data shows we may have slight edge over pakistan but remember we have long border than pakistan and we will need to station over assets on border with China too.

So, The effective firepower available to us to reign in Pakistan in some sectors is actually at negative with respect to Pakistan.

Some jingo just look up numbers and go frog without understanding their is a chain tied around our neck with the chinese pole.
 
Ajayant Tripathi said:
As the data shows we may have slight edge over pakistan but remember we have long border than pakistan and we will need to station over assets on border with China too.

So, The effective firepower available to us to reign in Pakistan in some sectors is actually at negative with respect to Pakistan.

Some jingo just look up numbers and go frog without understanding their is a chain tied around our neck with the chinese pole.
Click to expand...
likewise pak has disturbed borders with afg, iran

heck they have disturbed interioir with BLA, sindh

and they have 13 bill in the bank they need to sa guard cos the slightest hint of pak state failing MFers are gonna loot the bank and jet off to the nearest european nation.
 
JConline said:
There is a larger geopolitical game brewing here. But the game doesn't predate the attack, rather, it is counting on India's retaliation to the attack. Remember, China has the BRO projects running through PoK that give China an alternative land route to a port (Karachi) in the event that the Strait of Malacca is blocked. Shutting down that major logistical pathway can pay massive strategic dividends to the US in a confrontation with China, which btw, is also brewing.
China certainly knows this, but in the current geopolitical climate, it is choosing to consolidate its economic interests rather than protect a Plan B.
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We can take the Chinis into confidence if we guarantee them some sort of return on their investments. Whatever they blew on CPEC on several white elephant projects in Pak is just that and even they know it. It will take some more impressive diplomatic manoeuvering and leveraging on our part however to settle these long standing border disputes.
 
LETHALFORCE said:
www.jagranjosh.com

India vs. Pakistan Military Strength: A Detailed Analysis of Army, Navy and Air Force

This analysis compares the armed forces (army, navy, and air force) of India and Pakistan, examining their respective capabilities and strategic advantages.
www.jagranjosh.com www.jagranjosh.com

India vs Pakistan Military Strength: Land Power​

When we look at land power, India has more tanks and armoured vehicles than Pakistan. India has 4,201 tanks, while Pakistan has 2,627. India also has a lot more armoured vehicles (148,594) compared to Pakistan (17,516).
However, Pakistan has more self-propelled artillery (662) and mobile rocket projectors (600) than India, which has 100 and 264, respectively.
India does have more towed artillery guns (3,975) than Pakistan (2,629). So, while India has more of some ground weapons, Pakistan has more of others.

Weapon TypeIndiaPakistan
Tank Strength4,2012,627
Armored Vehicles148,59417,516
Self-Propelled Artillery100662
Towed Artillery3,9752,629
Mobile Rocket Projectors264600
we have focused to heavily on armor, while many are moving away from armor to air UAV's and attack helicopters. Kickbacks from russians are clearly visible.
Click to expand...
Embarrassing

Hopefully this episode drives change. Should be an order of magnitude higher than them on every thing.
 
Roshan said:
We can take the Chinis into confidence if we guarantee them some sort of return on their investments. Whatever they blew on CPEC on several white elephant projects in Pak is just that and even they know it. It will take some more impressive diplomatic manoeuvering and leveraging on our part however to settle these long standing border disputes.
Click to expand...
This is a bit a zero sum game with China at the moment. In geopolitics, you have to understand that the more powerful nation is always draws the most benefits from any bilateral agreement. If India can play it's cards right, we can actually manage to deal with China on equal grounds in the matter because China is at a disadvantage here.
 
An suggestion with specific relevance to Pakistan.
As per many sources Pakistan's capital city Islamabad/Rawalpindi is approximately 310 km by road from the Indian Punjab border.

Since GHQ Rawalpindi is the ultimate command centre for directing major terrorist attacks on India, why not have some useful leverage over those twin cities Islamabad & Rawalpindi.

Should we develop a ultra long range MBRL(obviously a guided rocket) of range max 350km.An 8 or even 12 tube device. Having quite heavy warhead possibly 200 - 300 kg.

Without even crossing the border the Pakistan Army headquarters can be bombarded.

A question arises.
Why develop an ultra long range MBRL when we have ballistic missiles of sufficient range which can hit Rawalpindi.

Because the impact of 8 to 12 rockets/missiles striking Pakistan's GHQ simultaneously is much greater. I believe the ISI headquarters is also in Islamabad.

Will not an bombing of the Pakistan Army headquarters lower the morale of its military.

I agree that the suggestion is debatable and not everyone will feel that an MBRL which can reach Pakistan's capital city needs to be developed.
 
Have seen a retired serviceman's video doing the rounds on WhatsApp which calls into question why none of the several able bodied men fought back, maybe some of you have also seen it. I am not going to go and check back on this thread if it's been commented on but he says out of all of them only the pony operator supposedly fought back and he wasn't even threatened, rest of them just meekly did what they were told to and even dropped their pants when asked to. Even someone who charged at the terrorists and went for their guns could've prevented many of these deaths. When facing assault rifles though, even 2 serving men couldn't do anything probably also because they were with family so I'm not sure if it's as easy as this gentleman is saying it was to show some fight and not co-operate in that situation. It takes more than training but a particular frame of mind/temperament to deal with such situations which most city dwelling Indians just don't/won't have due to a lack of need.
 
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JConline said:
This is a bit a zero sum game with China at the moment. In geopolitics, you have to understand that the more powerful nation is always draws the most benefits from any bilateral agreement. If India can play it's cards right, we can actually manage to deal with China on equal grounds in the matter because China is at a disadvantage here.
Click to expand...
I don't expect China to make any hawkish moves or sabre rattle until Trump-2 is done. They also have to deal with a more powerful enemy and a much bigger priority in Taiwan later. They will not jeopardise it for bhikaristan of all people.
 
Tridev123 said:
An suggestion with specific relevance to Pakistan.
As per many sources Pakistan's capital city Islamabad/Rawalpindi is approximately 310 km by road from the Indian Punjab border.

Since GHQ Rawalpindi is the ultimate command centre for directing major terrorist attacks on India, why not have some useful leverage over those twin cities Islamabad & Rawalpindi.

Should we develop a ultra long range MBRL(obviously a guided rocket) of range max 350km.An 8 or even 12 tube device. Having quite heavy warhead possibly 200 - 300 kg.

Without even crossing the border the Pakistan Army headquarters can be bombarded.

A question arises.
Why develop an ultra long range MBRL when we have ballistic missiles of sufficient range which can hit Rawalpindi.

Because the impact of 8 to 12 rockets/missiles striking Pakistan's GHQ simultaneously is much greater. I believe the ISI headquarters is also in Islamabad.

Will not an bombing of the Pakistan Army headquarters lower the morale of its military.

I agree that the suggestion is debatable and not everyone will feel that an MBRL which can reach Pakistan's capital city needs to be developed.
Click to expand...
This sounds well.........stupid.
Why would you develop a weapon system whose primary drawback is that it's volley of payloads, launched at the same time will almost certainly give away its position to the enemy which is conventional army in this case. India already has MUCH better alternatives to that. For instance, SCALP missiles launched from Rafales would be less detectable, way more devastating and more accurate than any MBRL system in the market right now.
Now coming to the question of why we haven't acted upon this if we have the required arsenal. You have to understand that escalation has levels. In a conflict there is vertical escalation and horizontal escalation. In this conflict between nuclear armed nations, unchecked vertical escalation can cause nuclear war ffs! You can't just bomb the headquarters of a nuclear state and expect to get away with it, dude!
And please PLEASE keep in mind that for better or for worse, India is not the US. We don't hold the unequivocal right to be a global asshole. Our civilizational history is the basis for our very core values and Indians for one know how to fix things with finesse. And trust me, we as civilians know barely 1% of what tactical finesse is.
 
Tridev123 said:
An suggestion with specific relevance to Pakistan.
As per many sources Pakistan's capital city Islamabad/Rawalpindi is approximately 310 km by road from the Indian Punjab border.

Since GHQ Rawalpindi is the ultimate command centre for directing major terrorist attacks on India, why not have some useful leverage over those twin cities Islamabad & Rawalpindi.

Should we develop a ultra long range MBRL(obviously a guided rocket) of range max 350km.An 8 or even 12 tube device. Having quite heavy warhead possibly 200 - 300 kg.

Without even crossing the border the Pakistan Army headquarters can be bombarded.

A question arises.
Why develop an ultra long range MBRL when we have ballistic missiles of sufficient range which can hit Rawalpindi.

Because the impact of 8 to 12 rockets/missiles striking Pakistan's GHQ simultaneously is much greater. I believe the ISI headquarters is also in Islamabad.

Will not an bombing of the Pakistan Army headquarters lower the morale of its military.

I agree that the suggestion is debatable and not everyone will feel that an MBRL which can reach Pakistan's capital city needs to be developed.
Click to expand...
Millitary headquarters are usually underground bunkers. If taking down a headquarter was so easy zelensky wouldn't be alive today
 
What benefits do we get from capturing the terrorists alive?

1) Intel
2) Psy Ops
3) Handlers
4) Support Network
 
We should use sleeping gas once we box them in. Knock them out and get them when they are unconscious
 
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