Union Budget

[Jackprince]

1. The median household income is low because the economy was opened up in 1991 only. When much of the world was done reforming their domestic economic setups we were busy playing 'socialism'.

2. The folks who pay income taxes are not middle class - far from it.

3. Income tax deductions, when adjusted for inflation, have actually declined since 2014.

4. Folks who want to leave India to save up on taxes and do not want to be a part of the India story are free to do so. Nobody does a favor to us mere mortals by staying back.

1. Yeah, so? It's been 30 years already. The excuses of 'past misdeeds' don't hold up now, anymore.

2. If you think a man earning Rs.3.5lakh/year is 'far from' being a middle class, I wonder what your definition of middle class is? Rs.1 lakh per annum?

3. Income Tax deduction declined in which way? If not adjusted for inflation, the salaries too have increased and therefore, the percentage of tax has also increased. Similarly, if adjusted for inflation, Income Tax couldn't have been reduced. Simple, if a man earned Rs.5lakh in 2014, with inflations taken as 5% constant, he will have to make over Rs.8.5lakh just to have the same level of expenses as before. However, since the tax slabs has barely moved, he will have to pay taxes at higher rate because of his higher income today.

4. The folks who move out of India takes valuable forex with them as well as the income tax paid by them each year. The 'part in India story' is BS. One who moves out of India today and saves money, can always come back with more money when that India story is fully bloomed. But, those partaking in India story staying in India and funding thousands of doles paid to hundreds of groups, will neither be saving the money nor getting the services of their money's worth. Those who are leaving are actually not middle-class, but either upper middle-class people with valuable skillset or High Networth Individual who are generally job creators. So you blithely saying that their leaving is not going to hurt is like the Bangladeshis now saying that ban of Indian goods to BD wouldn't hurt them any.

If you are indeed crazy with math, produce a comprehensive analysis how I am wrong.

 

[crazywithmath]

If median household income is low, it shows how pathetic the govt has been in its administrative and fiscal management.

The middle class has become middle class by their own merit and without any assistance from Govt or rather despite severe hindrances by the Govt if one is from general Category.

BJP govt has been worst for the middle class forever. But this one especially so. This one actually is running in such a way as if the middle class doesn't have a right to exist.

They are literally causing inflation by giving away money for free and then milking the middle class - not only earnings but also savings.

The rich gets tax breaks in businesses, the poor gets SOPs and Midlle class gets middle finger.

That's why the upper middle class people are leaving and taking aways skillset and money with them.

1. Yeah, so? It's been 30 years already. The excuses of 'past misdeeds' don't hold up now, anymore.

2. If you think a man earning Rs.3.5lakh/year is 'far from' being a middle class, I wonder what your definition of middle class is? Rs.1 lakh per annum?

3. Income Tax deduction declined in which way? If not adjusted for inflation, the salaries too have increased and therefore, the percentage of tax has also increased. Similarly, if adjusted for inflation, Income Tax couldn't have been reduced. Simple, if a man earned Rs.5lakh in 2014, with inflations taken as 5% constant, he will have to make over Rs.8.5lakh just to have the same level of expenses as before. However, since the tax slabs has barely moved, he will have to pay taxes at higher rate because of his higher income today.

4. The folks who move out of India takes valuable forex with them as well as the income tax paid by them each year. The 'part in India story' is BS. One who moves out of India today and saves money, can always come back with more money when that India story is fully bloomed. But, those partaking in India story staying in India and funding thousands of doles paid to hundreds of groups, will neither be saving the money nor getting the services of their money's worth. Those who are leaving are actually not middle-class, but either upper middle-class people with valuable skillset or High Networth Individual who are generally job creators. So you blithely saying that their leaving is not going to hurt is like the Bangladeshis now saying that ban of Indian goods to BD wouldn't hurt them any.

If you are indeed crazy with math, produce a comprehensive analysis how I am wrong.

1. India at least doubles its pci every decade - consistently. It is pretty decent and only a handful of nations have manged this kind of consistent growth throughout the course of their history. Idk what's your issue is.

2. Think the income distribution data was posted only a page back.

3. I have already done the analysis on the old DFI econony thread and I can do it again. Unless you are earning 18-20 lpa (or more) you have it quite comfortable under this govt.

4. India does not really miss out on anything because of emigration. Nor is our economy remittance dependent. While this theory probably made some sense back in the '70s and '80s I do not think any serious observer gives any credence to the so-called 'brain drain' and 'wealth drain' theories. It is nations like bd and pak (whose economies are remittance dependent) or the smaller ASEAN nations (elevated levels of emigration and a less complex economy) who should worry about all this; not us.

 

[Roshan]

Damn .. So the people who actually pay tax(and not just file) is close to 1 % ..
So our rona dhona looks to the rest looks like 1%ers complaining .

Complaint comes more when they see small and medium sized businesses lower their tax burden or simply not pay any tax at all. There's a large population who are below taxable limit but also a not-inconsiderable jamaat of self employed business owners who have more options in this regard. Ofc no one stops them from taking the risk and starting a business themselves but still.

 

[crazywithmath]

Complaint comes more when they see small and medium sized businesses lower their tax burden or simply not pay any tax at all. There's a large population who are below taxable limit but also a not-inconsiderable jamaat of self employed business owners who have more options in this regard. Ofc no one stops them from taking the risk and starting a business themselves but still.

This is not true either. This govt has considerably widened their tax net - their y-o-y growth figures are through the roof (significantly higher than the nominal GDP growth). It is just that this govt sucks on PR, only folks who keep track of their data would know stuff like this.

 

[Roshan]

This is not true either. This govt has considerably widened their tax net - their y-o-y growth figures are through the roof (significantly higher than the nominal GDP growth). It is just that this govt sucks on PR, only folks who keep track of their data would know stuff like this.

Cash has still not been eliminated completely and the net widening exercise is ongoing. Govt ultimately still has to make the incentive to comply great enough by allowing them to self report their income upto 30lac so they can decide how much they want to pay. For a salaried person this is completely transparent.

 

[karn]

Complaint comes more when they see small and medium sized businesses lower their tax burden or simply not pay any tax at all. There's a large population who are below taxable limit but also a not-inconsiderable jamaat of self employed business owners who have more options in this regard. Ofc no one stops them from taking the risk and starting a business themselves but still.

I am in the process of getting a GST number just cause I did some freelancing for a small company .
I don't envy small and medium sized businesses at all .

 

[Roshan]

I am in the process of getting a GST number just cause I did some freelancing for a small company .
I don't envy small and medium sized businesses at all .

They have it alright tax wise actually. Concerns are more related to duties, competition and business ans credit cycles.

 

[ezsasa]

Cash has still not been eliminated completely and the net widening exercise is ongoing. Govt ultimately still has to make the incentive to comply great enough by allowing them to self report their income upto 30lac so they can decide how much they want to pay. For a salaried person this is completely transparent.

cash is here to stay, it will not go anywhere. there will be a large section of society who will need cash atleast till 2047, largely at bottom of the pyramid. and then there is election funding.

our income tax system is already one of the most lenient systems in the world, hardly one or two countries other than India who give exemption on tax slabs. almost every country taxes first and then asks questions. our system eases a taxpayer into the net.

apparently there is a review of direct tax regime going on, let's see what's the new proposal from the gormint. unless something fundamentally changes in the new system, gormint has very little space for incentives anymore, especially the current one. sometimes looking at their fiscal conservativeness, it looks as if their assessment of the world is pretty bad, as in anything can happen anytime, so keep fiscal balance healthy.

gormint this and the future ones, will focus on formalisation of jobs to increase the tax net, their eyes are on TDS, ITR is for book keeping.

 

[Roshan]

cash is here to stay, it will not go anywhere. there will be a large section of society who will need cash atleast till 2047, largely at bottom of the pyramid. and then there is election funding.

our income tax system is already one of the most lenient systems in the world, hardly one or two countries other than India who give exemption on tax slabs. almost every country taxes first and then asks questions. our system eases a taxpayer into the net.

apparently there is a review of direct tax regime going on, let's see what's the new proposal from the gormint. unless something fundamentally changes in the new system, gormint has very little space for incentives anymore, especially the current one. sometimes looking at their fiscal conservativeness, it looks as if their assessment of the world is pretty bad, as in anything can happen anytime, so keep fiscal balance healthy.

gormint this and the future ones, will focus on formalisation of jobs to increase the tax net, their eyes are on TDS, ITR is for book keeping.

Has anyone ever attempted to brainstorm what would happen if SuSwamys suggestions on no direct tax but only indirect taxes were implemented ? Large part of his popularity among salaried class was due to this suggestion of his which used to be publicized a lot pre 2014 leading to them seeing wet dreams.