Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[The Shrike]

I still don't understand what is so complicated about purchasing our own aircraft for tanker duties, instead of leasing.

Leasing weapons platforms was Big brain IQ 420 move by Babus to make up for failure to actually acquiring much needed capabilities.

 

[midnight]

Joining the 6th gen program is a great idea, but does the government of India Have the time and funds to divert from its current plan and join a foreign project? Can we trust the British? The Italians and the Japanese? History says we cannot and should never trust them. The British sabotaged the Marut program and gave us horrible engines which did not allow the aircraft to become a supersonic fighter. Italy and Japan were our foes in WW2. Let's stick with the Russian federation, the United States and not these backstabbers.

 

[Spitfire IX]

Joining the 6th gen program is a great idea, but does the government of India Have the time and funds to divert from its current plan and join a foreign project? Can we trust the British? The Italians and the Japanese? History says we cannot and should never trust them. The British sabotaged the Marut program and gave us horrible engines which did not allow the aircraft to become a supersonic fighter. Italy and Japan were our foes in WW2. Let's stick with the Russian federation, the United States and not these backstabbers.

Not true about Marut. Britain cancelled the British programme for which the engine was being developed. India could have paid for completion of the engine's development. Price asked was £2 or £3 million. India did not want to do that and chose to throw its lot in with Egypt, which subsequently cancelled the Halwan aircraft it was developing and along with it died the engine. IMO an incredible blunder by GOI. A supersonic Marut was within India's grasp and GOI refused it!

 

[midnight]

Not true about Marut. Britain cancelled the British programme for which the engine was being developed. India could have paid for completion of the engine's development. Price asked was £2 or £3 million. India did not want to do that and chose to throw its lot in with Egypt, which subsequently cancelled the Halwan aircraft it was developing and along with it died the engine. IMO an incredible blunder by GOI. A supersonic Marut was within India's grasp and GOI refused it!

My point exactly. All your government did here was plunder and rob this country. How difficult is it for you to pay for the product instead of asking for more money?! I dint know know the British are below the world poverty line!? Even now you fellows wont change. What do you want from us for the 6th gen, more funding? So IMO try some other country.

 

[VictorDelta4]

 

[Spitfire IX]

My point exactly. All your government did here was plunder and rob this country. How difficult is it for you to pay for the product instead of asking for more money?! I dint know know the British are below the world poverty line!? Even now you fellows wont change. What do you want from us for the 6th gen, more funding? So IMO try some other country.

Read the history. I've quoted a source or sources before. I'm not going to lookup and repost again and again. If the facts don't fit your conception of how history should be, so be it.

 

[705-Lira]

Leasing weapons platforms was Big brain IQ 420 move by Babus to make up for failure to actually acquiring much needed capabilities.

If the IAF really had a critical need for aerial refuellers, then they would be scouting the world for used Airbus/Boeing airframes for converting them to aerial tankers.

 

[midnight]

Read the history. I've quoted a source or sources before. I'm not going to lookup and repost again and again. If the facts don't fit your conception of how history should be, so be it.

I know history. I am stating a fundamental problem where the English lotted and haven't paid back do you understand what my point is?

Your government could've easily paid for the engine program and given us the engines for the Marut fighter, but they asked for more money. I believe it's called being shameless.

Your karma is absolutely horrible and the future will see your country pay for the past, I promise.

 

[daya]

View attachment 29627

What the hell!!! Again!!!!! This is absolutely horrible... The commanding officer must be sacked....

 

[samsaptaka]

What the hell!!! Again!!!!! This is absolutely horrible... The commanding officer must be sacked....

Eh ? We don't know the reason for the injuries, was it chute malfunction? On what grounds are you asking for CO to be sacked ?

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Can we trust the British?

My decade+ years of coding logic tells me if you ask this question as Indian, it means you must wear the dunce cap from tom & jerry in public for next 1 week straight

 

[midnight]

My decade+ years of coding logic tells me if you ask this question as Indian, it means you must wear the dunce cap from tom & jerry in public for next 1 week straight

How am I suppose to say no to the program being offered? And it's a Bhartiya defence forum.

All the they will do is subtly insult and start talking hard with my fellow countrymen about our projects and sadly they will keep at it till we tell them to get out.

So I don't have a tom and jerry problem here. They might want the Canadians to wear a hat like that now that you'll are joing the GCAP.

 

[Spitfire IX]

How am I suppose to say no to the program being offered? And it's a Bhartiya defence forum.

All the they will do is subtly insult and start talking hard with my fellow countrymen about our projects and sadly they will keep at it till we tell them to get out.

So I don't have a tom and jerry problem here. They might want the Canadians to wear a hat like that now that you'll are joing the GCAP.

My guess is that it is very unlikely India will join GCAP. If the GCAP partners approved the idea in principle, negotiations with India would likely take so long that there would be nothing left for India to do development-wise by the time India joined. India does things at a different speed to other places, at least where defence is concerned.

Another GCAP partner? I could see Canada being interested in joining (for obvious political reasons). KSA is a possibility, but I wonder what contribution it could make apart from funding.

PS In India's shoes I would do what is required to put Tejas Mk2 on track and carry on with AMCA until it is ready, then keep ordering more and more Mk1 until a suitable engine for Mk2 was in production.

 

[midnight]

My guess is that it is very unlikely India will join GCAP. If the GCAP partners approved the idea in principle, negotiations with India would likely take so long that there would be nothing left for India to do development-wise by the time India joined. India does things at a different speed to other places, at least where defence is concerned.

Another GCAP partner? I could see Canada being interested in joining (for obvious political reasons). KSA is a possibility, but I wonder what contribution it could make apart from funding.

PS In India's shoes I would do what is required to put Tejas Mk2 on track and carry on with AMCA until it is ready, then keep ordering more and more Mk1 until a suitable engine for Mk2 was in production.

India should join the FCAS instead. We are closely working with the French and Germany on our helicopters and submarines anyway.

Why not join them instead, what does the GCAP have over an already committed relationship?

Except for minimal sub systems and ejection seats we aren't committing a large-ish project with the British. I believe we already have LPD and electric propulsion designs ready with the DND and the Navy, I don't know what the English bring to the table there.

About the programs, our work ethic and pace, it's ours to decide.

Tejas and AMCA are on track in accordance with goi.

 

[darkflame]

Indian policy making is just too paralized to make any decision on time, in my opinion joining GCAP or FCAS would be a good decision taking into account that we don't have any 6th gen fighter program yet whereas China has already flown two prototypes, also looking at the pace at which amca is moving I don't think it will do it's first flight before 2029 and looking at development cycle of other 5th gen programs from there it should take around decade or more to be inducted in IAF at least thats what other 5th gen jets took except j20. So by the time amca joins Iaf, chinki 6th gen jets would have completed a decade in plaf service.

 

[darkflame]

View: https://x.com/Clay_PLAPAP/status/1909137360706843026?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1909153209320358078%7Ctwgr%5Ef49a91eab6d681805005b03375fa7bda3006914a%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.strategicfront.org%2Fforums%2Fthreads%2Fpeoples-liberation-army-air-force-news-discussions.596%2Fpage-57

 

[Spitfire IX]

India should join the FCAS instead. We are closely working with the French and Germany on our helicopters and submarines anyway.

Why not join them instead, what does the GCAP have over an already committed relationship?

Except for minimal sub systems and ejection seats we aren't committing a large-ish project with the British. I believe we already have LPD and electric propulsion designs ready with the DND and the Navy, I don't know what the English bring to the table there.

About the programs, our work ethic and pace, it's ours to decide.

Tejas and AMCA are on track in accordance with goi.

Agreed, FCAS is perhaps a better choice for India than GCAP.

Of course, India is free to do things as it wishes. That is unlikely to be welcome, though, if it wants to join international programmes along the lines of FCAS or GCAP. The idea of those programmes is to produce 6G aircraft in the next 10-15 years, not in the next 25 or 30 or 35 or 40 years!

Tejas and AMCA are on track? If GOI thinks that, it is free to ignore the long history of that not being the case if it so wishes.

 

[daya]

Eh ? We don't know the reason for the injuries, was it chute malfunction? On what grounds are you asking for CO to be sacked ?

This is the second one. It itself puts a BIG question mark to the system. Committees, Inquiries.... and results?

 

[midnight]

Agreed, FCAS is perhaps a better choice for India than GCAP.

Of course, India is free to do things as it wishes. That is unlikely to be welcome, though, if it wants to join international programmes along the lines of FCAS or GCAP. The idea of those programmes is to produce 6G aircraft in the next 10-15 years, not in the next 25 or 30 or 35 or 40 years!

Tejas and AMCA are on track? If GOI thinks that, it is free to ignore the long history of that not being the case if it so wishes.

I am sure the GCAP participants are really driven, but the goi has plans which are not known to foreign public.

So let's try and keep yourselves out of their plans and not impose your own timelines on the Bharatiya defence forum.

Which means underestimation is always comfortable for the underestimated.

 

[Azaad]

Agreed, FCAS is perhaps a better choice for India than GCAP.

Of course, India is free to do things as it wishes. That is unlikely to be welcome, though, if it wants to join international programmes along the lines of FCAS or GCAP. The idea of those programmes is to produce 6G aircraft in the next 10-15 years, not in the next 25 or 30 or 35 or 40 years!

Tejas and AMCA are on track? If GOI thinks that, it is free to ignore the long history of that not being the case if it so wishes.

UK tried its best , so did Italy to get India on board the Tempest / GCAP program much before the Japanese came in .

The reason GoI / MoD / DRDO / ADA /IAF didn't pay much heed was they inferred India'd not be part of core development & instead relegated to ITC activities particularly for the S/w related issues .

This is precisely the reason we exited the Su-57 / FGFA program coz after paying our contribution to the program we weren't allowed access to the core program & the work share kept dropping. After years pf observation & putting up with the Russkies , we told them we're out & immediately after that the Russians came up / are still coming up with repeated offers sweetening the deal with every offer they make .

Besides the Su-57 wasn't shaping up into the program the IAF was promised or the way the IAF wanted. For starters , Stealth wasn't seen by the Russians as their top priority. In the meanwhile what happened was our own indigenous capabilities with respect to technology development , showed remarkable improvements with the result that our previous plans of becoming part of the Su-57 / FGFA program wherein our learnings from that program were supposed to feed into the AMCA program (which in the event didn't deliver for reasons explained ) was no longer required & the IAF decided to back the DRDO / ADA - AMCA program instead.

As far as the FCAS program goes from what I understand , le Francais are fed up of ze Germans & are continuing in the program only coz of the pressure Macron has brought to bear on them to resolve their differences & come out with a prototype ASAP.

The thinking is the moment Macron demits office , le Francais will drop out of the program like how they did with the Eurofighter program consortium more than 3 decades ago to proceed with the Rafale program.

They seem to have already prepared a Plan B to that effect. So where's the question of India being part of it ? Not that they've approached us & if they do , it'd be more of the same as with the Tempest / GCAP offer . You can guess what our response will be.