GTRE GTX 35VS Kaveri

[Satish Sharma Ji]

Generally I don't believe in this crap, I still don't, but the folks in BRF are thinking that there's a secret 90KN dry thrust derivative of Kaveri??

View: https://youtu.be/dhXNb-W76I8?si=EkIKzLiseBE3u1_B

This is what one of the BRF members "habal" has said & I quote

" this is a different engine, 140 kn max thrust is targeted and whether it achieved that or not is not clear but 102 kn dry thrust was achieved in russia high altitude tests while engine dry thrust target was previously at 90 kn. From my open source reading this engine is not kaveri without afterburner called KDE but another varient rated for 90 kn which exceeded expectations during russian high altitude tests. Some sources have given this name as ganga which is an engine developed for AMCA.

This also clarifies a flurry of Kaveri 2.0 news recently while everyone was left wondering why Kaveri 2.0 was being discussed while KDE without afterburner was still work in progress with two samples delivered by Godrej"[/URL]

I don't think so this would be happening or kind of kept kept secret but some how got leaked.
But that thing isnt impossible either if we had to do and project would have e been initiated on our own.
DMS4 for SCBs & vanes developed in 2012 which could sustain Tet of 1550-1600c easily(our cmsx equivalent, 3rd gen) and add to that new development happened since because they won't have been sitting idle for this many years. Dms3 was developed in 2004 which had 8c more tet than cmsx4 (2nd gen).
I won't be suprised they would have developed DMS5 either. And even huge development have happened in regards with Thermal barrier coatings in last 10year many things have changed we can sustain a scramjets the TBCs which go in there are the latest ones ..I suppose this techs build over could sustain Tet upto 1700-1800c.we have many technologies already developed to roll out a f119 class turbofan. various alloys are developed in order to reduce weights(carbon polymer) of kaveri. We have not suffered on metalurgical front in kaveri instead there were issues like unstable combustion in afterburner, vibrations screech flutter which are solved we took help of snecma. The thing left is to prove in the newer afterburner made by brahmos which design is supposed to sort out that flutter issue. If that's done we can roll out f119 class engines it's tet is 1650c.
Read my recent post on this threads or more info.

The another missing piece is the manufacturing capacity which we have(al31) but lack advance process for coating deposition (ebpvd) and they aspires to seek even other modern manufacturing processes.
Via f414 deal again refer my post on this and previous page for more info.
We can't scale up our ebpvd developed by RCI to large extend limited only upto helicopter blades used by DMRL.

You're too underestimating hal mate. Ends user agreements are limiting hal from using indigeneous materials for single crystals blades as per contract alloys must come from russia it is not like they don't have the capacity.
They have the capability to produce & use indigeneous SCBs in al31. DMRL has developed SCBs for al31fp. they had developed dms4 nickel based super alloy SCBs,turbine vanes for al31. Initially dms3 was developed but there were some deficiencies which were sorted out and even further improvements lead to dms4 and who actually dmrl went to for this hal koraput. hal used dmrl developed thermal barrier coatings to improve al31 without compromising the agreement Clause. It eventually improved the al31. Not just that the nozzle mtbo was also improved by dmrl. Hal has the capability to manufacture modern SCB.

Just a mere fact kaveri has higher tet than al31.
Without ds blades and indigeneous TBCs. The ds blades used in kaveri provides 1050c tolerance along with other means like tbc & cooling it is then improved upto 1450c. Al 31 tet is below 1400c. The f110 mid iteration has tet of 1510c. M88 has 1577c, the f119 has 1650c,F135 has 1960c, Al41 has 1640c, f414epe has 1600c, ej200 1535c notice super cruising engines have tet above/around 1550c

The kaveri now uses dmd4 a directionaly solidified which shares materials with dms4.
Why doesn't they use dms4 ? Who knows maybe dmd4 does the job. after it surely provides tet higher than 1450c tet without latest TBCs available here. Tet was never an issue in kaveri. Given the development we have done in tbc with dms4 kaveri can achieve tet of 1700c easily.
TBCs developments are quite unreported given the developments we have done for hstdv. I will say kaveri can achieve tet of 1700c+. But that would require work staring from very begging and would cost abit. Maybe even major redesigning as kaveri was designed with ds blades. And we don't even have e test facilities yet so again we can't there are tens of reason for it. Even the new fan paired with this new technologies we can develop 5th gen engine today (given infrastructure is approved)
But before that kaveri has to prove itself & the kde too Unless & untill mod babus will not allot funds
It is such a shame we're Just allocating 23k crores for drdo. Mod babus don't understand anything unless and until kaveri is proved no funds till then. That's the reality. Kaveri isn't facing materials problem it just can't initiate new programs and it will have to prove 90s design first to get funds after that they would be making a true low bypass engine with recent techs developed.
Visit pg no 29 of this thread handle named shiro on twitter has provided good info.

There is reason why samir v kamat said we can make 5th gen AMCA engine on our own. Chasing jv could be the reason of no confidence in them from babus system politicians and also drdo desired carbon composites tech along with adaptive cycle.


View: https://twitter.com/ShiroBarks/status/1899837650384863653?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1899837650384863653%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=

While with f414 new infrastructure will be brought improving overall manufacturing capability.
View attachment 29697
However this are not used in the al31 i suppose they should have had renegotiated it. Or maybe in the process.

Bel has no job here.
Godrej, midhani , l&t, bharat forge, azad engineering can contribute but they only want to manufacture things while without spending on r&d. This doesn't apply to midhani though they have done descent job.

From ddr

 

[Migflug]

View: https://x.com/ShiroBarks/status/1909106389215019183?t=reWujeQI8ASfx1jybV97BQ&s=19

 

[Azaad]

I don't think so this would be happening or kind of kept kept secret but some how got leaked.
But that thing isnt impossible either if we had to do and project would have e been initiated on our own.
DMS4 for SCBs & vanes developed in 2012 which could sustain Tet of 1550-1600c easily(our cmsx equivalent, 3rd gen) and add to that new development happened since because they won't have been sitting idle for this many years. Dms3 was developed in 2004 which had 8c more tet than cmsx4 (2nd gen).
I won't be suprised they would have developed DMS5 either. And even huge development have happened in regards with Thermal barrier coatings in last 10year many things have changed we can sustain a scramjets the TBCs which go in there are the latest ones ..I suppose this techs build over could sustain Tet upto 1700-1800c.we have many technologies already developed to roll out a f119 class turbofan. various alloys are developed in order to reduce weights(carbon polymer) of kaveri. We have not suffered on metalurgical front in kaveri instead there were issues like unstable combustion in afterburner, vibrations screech flutter which are solved we took help of snecma. The thing left is to prove in the newer afterburner made by brahmos which design is supposed to sort out that flutter issue. If that's done we can roll out f119 class engines it's tet is 1650c.
Read my recent post on this threads or more info.

The another missing piece is the manufacturing capacity which we have(al31) but lack advance process for coating deposition (ebpvd) and they aspires to seek even other modern manufacturing processes.
Via f414 deal again refer my post on this and previous page for more info.
We can't scale up our ebpvd developed by RCI to large extend limited only upto helicopter blades used by DMRL.

Project Ganga was rumoured to be a project under which we were to fully indigenize the Al -31FP TF or construct an analogue like the Chinese have done to Russian TFs IIRC .

No clue on the veracity of such news as this kind of news can never be confirmed or denied. What we can do is draw inferences & arrive at logical conclusions.

What exactly would an analogue of the Al - 31FP we develop power ? OTOH if we fully indigenize the Al - 31FP without prior agreement with the Russians , they'd be pissed.

They actually cut off China's access to their latest tech before relations were mended last decade and an agreement arrived at , under which the Russians sold them 2 squadrons of Su-35 , S-400 etc getting the Chinese to commit they'd not sell their FAs & the TFs powering such FAs in the international market , something which the Chinese have adhered to which is the reason you see them offering the J-10 to various customers not the J-11 or J-16 .

Moreover the Director GTRE has gone on record to say they were looking at a JV with a Foreign OEM Design House to develop a 120 KN TF with a TET of 1500 - 1600°C.

The Al - 31FP itself has a TET of ~ 1400°C with that of the Kaveri being ~ 1300°C . Moreover all 5th Gen TFs have a TF ~ 2000°C & 6th Gen TFs having a TET > 2000°C . So , I really don't know what exactly was the Director GTRE talking about.

 

[Anonymous Bharata]

90kn dry variant of kaveri ? , this claim requires some good source .

Forget about thrust, but there's a 100kg/s flow rate version

View: https://x.com/ShiroBarks/status/1909136229766922358

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

Forget about thrust, but there's a 100kg/s flow rate version

View: https://x.com/ShiroBarks/status/1909136229766922358

The baseline kaveri had 75-78kg/sec right.
The distortion tolerance fan is said to be for serpentine intakes. I suppose this developments are plan B incase...

View: https://twitter.com/ShiroBarks/status/1909142379317153887

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

Project Ganga was rumoured to be a project under which we were to fully indigenize the Al -31FP TF or construct an analogue like the Chinese have done to Russian TFs IIRC .

No clue on the veracity of such news as this kind of news can never be confirmed or denied. What we can do is draw inferences & arrive at logical conclusions.

What exactly would an analogue of the Al - 31FP we develop power ? OTOH if we fully indigenize the Al - 31FP without prior agreement with the Russians , they'd be pissed.
They actually cut off China's access to their latest tech before relations were mended last decade and an agreement arrived at , under which the Russians sold them 2 squadrons of Su-35 , S-400 etc getting the Chinese to commit they'd not sell their FAs & the TFs powering such FAs in the international market , something which the Chinese have adhered to which is the reason you see them offering the J-10 to various customers not the J-11 or J-16

Moreover the Director GTRE has gone on record to say they were looking at a JV with a Foreign OEM Design House to develop a 120 KN TF with a TET of 1500 - 1600°C.
The Al - 31FP itself has a TET of ~ 1400°C with that of the Kaveri being ~ 1300°C . Moreover all 5th Gen TFs have a TF ~ 2000°C & 6th Gen TFs having a TET > 2000°C . So , I really don't know what exactly was the Director GTRE talking about.

Not necessarily all 5th gen turbofan's have tet of 2000c except the f135 which has 1960c.
The f119s put in f22 has it around 1650c
Chinese with 1580c tet claim ws15 a5th gen engine.
The kaveri tet is not ~1300c.
Very initial prototypes of kaveri used not so advance and imported cm247lc materials for there directionaly solidified blades which gave tet of 1250 this tet thing was never constant over a period changes,upgrades have been done I suppose later they would have used cmsx2,4 as they never trusted dms3. but by 2012 dms4 got ready and since then it is being used in kaveri in ds form. Why not SCB i have already posted yesterday.
So with this new materials and also newer iteration of tbc eventually kaveri's tet reached 1450c. Well respected number for inexperienced country like us. Back in 2010s.
The dms4 raw without cooling channels & tbc sustain 1140c while dmd4(ds) sustains 1050c.
And this techs were developed way back since then many new iteration would have come up.
Why drdo desires jv i have no idea most likely mistrust of the policy makers in them. Lack of confidence of babus in drdo. few years back they were facing issues with small nirbhay cruise missile engine.
On desired tet of 1600c even I have no idea abt it. They already posses the same capacity btw
ON the contrary sameer v kamat says we are capable of making a 110-120kn engine on our own. I have dissected this in detail as well they might be seeking new techs.

 

[Azaad]

Not necessarily all 5th gen turbofan's have tet of 2000c except the f135 which has 1960c.
The f119s put in f22 has it around 1650c

When was the F-119 developed ?

Chinese with 1580c tet claim ws15 a5th gen engine.

I haven't seen any data in the public domain about the TET of any Chinese TF whatsoever but we have data on Russian TFs . I don't expect them to have surpassed the Russians in this matter.

The kaveri tet is not ~1300c.

What's it then in your opinion ?

Very initial prototypes of kaveri used not so advance and imported cm247lc materials for there directionaly solidified blades which gave tet of 1250 this tet thing was never constant over a period changes,upgrades have been done I suppose later they would have used cmsx2,4 as they never trusted dms3. but by 2012 dms4 got ready and since then it is being used in kaveri in ds form. Why not SCB i have already posted yesterday.
So with this new materials and also newer iteration of tbc eventually kaveri's tet reached 1450c. Well respected number for inexperienced country like us.

You'd have to back up your claims of Kaveri or KED having achieved a TET of ~ 1450°C for the Director GTRE is on record asking for a JV with a F-OEM Design House where the TET would be ~ 1500°C at the CAPS seminar a couple of months ago.

The reason I found his specification for the TET odd was because current 4th Gen TFs like the EJ 200 or the M-88 or even the F-414 among others already have a TET ~ 1500°C and above.

You can verify it on your own by checking out the video on CAPS channel on YouTube.

Back in 2010s.
The dms4 raw without cooling channels & tbc sustain 1140c while dmd4(ds) sustains 1050c.
And this techs were developed way back since then many new iteration would have come up.
Why drdo desires jv i have no idea most likely mistrust of the policy makers in them. Lack of confidence of babus in drdo. few years back they were facing issues with small nirbhay cruise missile engine.
On desired tet of 1600c even I have no idea abt it. They already posses the same capacity btw

ON the contrary sameer v kamat says we are capable of making a 110-120kn engine on our own. I have dissected this in detail as well they might be seeking new techs.
View attachment 29769

Sameer Kamat in that very seminar at CAPS has SPECIFICALLY has gone on record asking for a JV with a F-OEM Design House to develop the 120 KN TF along with tech expertise to set up a HAT , FTB & other such test facilities.

So what you're claiming is the opposite of what we've heard him say in that seminar. Perhaps you ought to link the article or video he made this claim in.

 

[Spitfire IX]

Not having a clue about jet engines except that air goes in one end and hot gas comes out the other end, I wonder if there is some rule of thumb regarding TET's, along these lines

TET
1400C = thrust X
1500C = thrust X + 5%
1600C = thrust X + 10%
1700C = thrust X + 15%
1800C = thrust X + 20%
etc

If a Kaveri to fit Tejas is currently producing, say, 70kN thrust, does the technology to raise TET enough to hit 85kN exist in India?

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

Not having a clue about jet engines except that air goes in one end and hot gas comes out the other end, I wonder if there is some rule of thumb regarding TET's, along these lines

TET
1400C = thrust X
1500C = thrust X + 5%
1600C = thrust X + 10%
1700C = thrust X + 15%
1800C = thrust X + 20%
etc

If a Kaveri to fit Tejas is currently producing, say, 70kN thrust, does the technology to raise TET enough to hit 85kN exist in India?

Dude dude islt is not.like that you can swap blades as you wish.
In 2013 india did had dds4 single crystals blades but gtre chose not to use them instead materials of dms 4 were used to make dmd4 (directionaly solidified) so tet is not an issue here klimov's rd33's series engines have tet around 1430c still they produce 50-55kn thrust. And so does the kaveri with DS blades produce 50kn.
I have already posted 2days back.it would take enormous time and testing to put on kaveri while current priority is to certify kaveri as early as possible and the current ds blades with 1450c tet does the job. They could have choose way back dds4 single crystals blades but they didn't for a reason. Kaveri's needs to be certified first for further developments. Changing improving will consume time.

And incase of afterburning thrust tet doesn't have much of role there afterburner section comes after the turbine. I suppose u know

 

[Hari Sud]

Why are we working on Kaveri Engine at DRDO?

Is it give people working on it for longer 30 years enough time to retire and collect their pension.

It is not going to work…… Their media releases are to keep the information system going.

Sell the whole lock-stock barrel to private company they develop it further.

This wholesale surgery is required.

Start the AMCA engine development to 110 kn with that company.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

When was the F-119 developed ?

I haven't seen any data in the public domain about the TET of any Chinese TF whatsoever but we have data on Russian TFs . I don't expect them to have surpassed the Russians in this matter.

What's it then in your opinion ?

You'd have to back up your claims of Kaveri or KED having achieved a TET of ~ 1450°C for the Director GTRE is on record asking for a JV with a F-OEM Design House where the TET would be ~ 1500°C at the CAPS seminar a couple of months ago.

I hope you know cmsx10 to figure this out.
If dms4 sc can outperform cmsx 10 even if slightly then a ds made out same material would withstand 1450c I know this isn't enough for you.

From one of drdo seminar

The reason I found his specification for the TET odd was because current 4th Gen TFs like the EJ 200 or the M-88 or even the F-414 among others already have a TET ~ 1500°C and above.

You can verify it on your own by checking out the video on CAPS channel on YouTube.

Yes but same guy has also said in past not once ig that drdo is capable of making 5th gen engine on there own without any foreign assistance.

Sameer Kamat in that very seminar at CAPS has SPECIFICALLY has gone on record asking for a JV with a F-OEM Design House to develop the 120 KN TF along with tech expertise to set up a HAT , FTB & other such test facilities.

So what you're claiming is the opposite of what we've heard him say in that seminar. Perhaps you ought to link the article or video he made this claim in.

Why drdo desires jv i have no idea most likely mistrust of the policy makers in them. Lack of confidence of babus in drdo. few years back they were facing issues with small nirbhay cruise missile engine.
On desired tet of 1600c even I have no idea abt it. They already posses the same capacity btw
ON the contrary sameer v kamat says we are capable of making a 110-120kn engine on our own. I have dissected this in detail as well they might be seeking new techs.

New technologies like adaptive cycle technology, cmc.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

View: https://x.com/ShiroBarks/status/1909106389215019183?t=reWujeQI8ASfx1jybV97BQ&s=19

Abhi tumhari Khushi barbad karta hu

View: https://twitter.com/ShiroBarks/status/1909108746543833468

 

[Azaad]

I hope you know cmsx10 to figure this out.
If dms4 sc can outperform cmsx 10 even if slightly then a ds made out same material would withstand 1450c I know this isn't enough for you.
View attachment 29783

This graph provides data for stress test results.

From one of drdo seminar View attachment 29792

You seem to be quoting data out of context.

Yes but same guy has also said in past not once ig that drdo is capable of making 5th gen engine on there own without any foreign assistance.


New technologies like adaptive cycle technology, cmc.

ACE involves materials able to withstand TET > 2000°C . The Director GTRE clearly specified 1500°C as what he was looking out for which as I've already pointed out earlier was something I couldn't understand.

Here's the video of Dr Sameer Kamat at CAPS.


View: https://youtu.be/Ti6oMHp21TE?feature=shared

& Here's the video of Dr S .V . Ramana Murthy , Director GTRE . Observe what he's to say about the JV from 11 min onwards.


View: https://youtu.be/a4OIUB1GCMg?si=M4P02etvqvXyko5m

The only issue is his data is outdated . He seems to think that 5th Gen TFs have a TET of 2000 Kelvin & 6th Gen TFs have a TET of 2200 Kelvin whereas F-135 already has a TET of 1980°C & even that is deemed to provide inadequate thrust & power with the result the F-35 will be going in for a brand new core ~ 2030 for enhanced thrust power generation & better thermal management.

 

[Spitfire IX]

Dude dude islt is not.like that you can swap blades as you wish.
In 2013 india did had dds4 single crystals blades but gtre chose not to use them instead materials of dms 4 were used to make dmd4 (directionaly solidified) so tet is not an issue here klimov's rd33's series engines have tet around 1430c still they produce 50-55kn thrust. And so does the kaveri with DS blades produce 50kn.
I have already posted 2days back.it would take enormous time and testing to put on kaveri while current priority is to certify kaveri as early as possible and the current ds blades with 1450c tet does the job. They could have choose way back dds4 single crystals blades but they didn't for a reason. Kaveri's needs to be certified first for further developments. Changing improving will consume time.

And incase of afterburning thrust tet doesn't have much of role there afterburner section comes after the turbine. I suppose u know

Got some of that.

A query for you, sir, please - if an after burner adds 20kN to a 40kN dry engine, is that fairly constant in the sense that it will add 20kN to a 45kN dry version or 50kN dry version of the engine?

 

[karn]

And incase of afterburning thrust tet doesn't have much of role there afterburner section comes after the turbine. I suppose u know

Doesn't the bypass ratio effect the performance of the AB ?

 

[Azaad]

The baseline kaveri had 75-78kg/sec right.
The distortion tolerance fan is said to be for serpentine intakes. I suppose this developments are plan B incase...

View: https://twitter.com/ShiroBarks/status/1909142379317153887
View attachment 29765

I'll tell the you problem with your thought process & approach . This bit of news you're posting about the Kaveri achieving ~ 1400°C is unverified for the GTRE given severe limitations of testing & calibration facilities will not be able to verify these parameters for a substantial amount of time if they go in for a change of blades / blisks.

What this means is they've conducted preliminary bench tests for limited periods of time . It was the same with the Kaveri engine ~ 2010 where bench tests were fine , also HAT tests but the moment this TF was mated onto the FTB & tested , it developed the now legendary screech , flutter & other issues with the AFB (?) .

It's only once they get it tested on an FTB they'd know where exactly they stand . For that , the previous experience is something which will have more than necessary bearing on their decision making process. What if this model also develops similar or related issues ? That'd mean they return to the drawing board & start reworking the design .

The last time it took them a good 8-10 years plus SAFRAN consultancy before they overcame these issues. And time is a luxury they cannot afford especially since the project has already dragged on for ~ 4 decades now for little fault of theirs .

Hence discretion is the better part of valour. They went in with tried tested & proven solutions of lesser calibre instead of experimenting & here we are .

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

Got some of that.

A query for you, sir, please - if an after burner adds 20kN to a 40kN dry engine, is that fairly constant in the sense that it will add 20kN to a 45kN dry version or 50kN dry version of the engine?

That's never in fixed linear way. Increase in mass flow might reduce afterburner efficiency in this case AB will require redesigning or sometime might increase the efficiency. If it optimised according as in case of ej200.
I can't recal but I think I read somewhere in regards to f110 that has many iterations

Btw the post you're quoted had mistakes I wrote dds4 instead of dms4 (sc)
Dmd4 (ds)
Ig autocorrect

 

[Asmodeus]

I'll tell the you problem with your thought process & approach . This bit of news you're posting about the Kaveri achieving ~ 1400°C is unverified for the GTRE given severe limitations of testing & calibration facilities will not be able to verify these parameters for a substantial amount of time if they go in for a change of blades / blisks.

What this means is they've conducted preliminary bench tests for limited periods of time . It was the same with the Kaveri engine ~ 2010 where bench tests were fine , also HAT tests but the moment this TF was mated onto the FTB & tested , it developed the now legendary screech , flutter & other issues with the AFB (?) .

It's only once they get it tested on an FTB they'd know where exactly they stand . For that , the previous experience is something which will have more than necessary bearing on their decision making process. What if this model also develops similar or related issues ? That'd mean they return to the drawing board & start reworking the design .

The last time it took them a good 8-10 years plus SAFRAN consultancy before they overcame these issues. And time is a luxury they cannot afford especially since the project has already dragged on for ~ 4 decades now for little fault of theirs .

Hence discretion is the better part of valour. They went in with tried tested & proven solutions of lesser calibre instead of experimenting & here we are .

I feel bad for GTRE... THEY HAVE TO WORK WITH ONE HAND TIED BEHIND THEIR BACKS. Russia has delayed twice now the testing on HAT.

There is also a thought process that a purely indegenous jet engine program will be riddled with bureaucrratic delays and sabotages, lack of funding for test infra. So Dr. Kamat is willing to give space to such elements as long as they get test infra built ASAP. So basically, JV is for getting machines and tools of manufacturing tech and test infra. Such JV can avert risk of stalling devlopemental hurdles if any encountered.

We need someone like Atal ji or Dr. Kalam who will stick out their neck and lay out a detailed plan for future.

 

[Azaad]

I feel bad for GTRE... THEY HAVE TO WORK WITH ONE HAND TIED BEHIND THEIR BACKS. Russia has delayed twice now the testing on HAT.

There is also a thought process that a purely indegenous jet engine program will be riddled with bureaucrratic delays and sabotages, lack of funding for test infra. So Dr. Kamat is willing to give space to such elements as long as they get test infra built ASAP. So basically, JV is for getting machines and tools of manufacturing tech and test infra. Such JV can avert risk of stalling devlopemental hurdles if any encountered.

Unfortunately , at the moment it seems like that . Moreover with the kind of perverse no risk strategy pursued by the MoD babooos , any slight setback in the program were it to be run indigenously will immediately see a cessation of funds .

Hence the thinking within the DRDO establishment must be - why risk it ? Go in for a JV , run the program in parallel with the meagre funds at their disposal & get all those tech which DRDO is unable to realise due to a paucity of funds thru the JV.

This thinking is also the result of what I've pointed out in a post on the Economy sub forum wherein a majority of these babooos are of a non technical background.

Contrast this with China where an overwhelming majority of their bureaucracy & the CCP are from a technical background. Xi Jinping himself is a chemical engineer IIRC from Tsinghua University , IIRC . You can see the difference in approaches & results , right there.

We need someone like Atal ji or Dr. Kalam who will stick out their neck and lay out a detailed plan for future.