Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Hari Sud]

Hari sus sir where do you live? Whats your profession? I saw you in idrw.org as well.

Toronto, Canada.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

HAL forms panel to negotiate GE-F414 deal with US, aims to ink it by March 2025

https://aninews.in/news/national/general-news/hal-forms-panel-to-negotiate-ge-f414-deal-with-us-aims-to-ink-it-by-march-202520241231215329/

Start praying to BTS because the consignment will likely be fulfilled by Hanwha.

 

[narasimh]

The IAF need for 45 Squadrons

There is a need of a honest debate on Indian IAF need to have 45 squadrons. The debate should avoid all stakeholders who have been shouting about 45 squadrons.

The need for 45 squadrons was set in 1991 when the fighter jets of the era were much less capable compared to what airforces of the world are acquiring today. Also the armaments carried by the fighter jets today are much more capable compared to 1991 era weapons.

Moreover the world’s airforces including the most capable Israeli Airforce has reduced the number of fighters they operate.

There are other reasons which require that we rethink about 45 squadrons.

1. The air defence systems have become very capable hence the fighter jets have to stay as far as possible from air defence missiles.

2. The advent of stealth fighters make the air battle with non stealth fighter an impossible task.

Hence think thru it and go all out for stealth fighters than 4 or 4.5 edition fighter but much less in numbers.

Argument to and for 45 squadrons are invited in the new year.

Welcome 2025.

The hawk trainers will have a role to play as well during war. At least ground support they can very well provide. Are those considered in calculations of IAF

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

The new J-36 is probably just a tech demonstrator but a derivative is/are probably coming next before 2030 perhaps & our Su-30MKI is our only heavy big fighter & will have to deal with it.
Su-30MKI is 21.9m/72 ft long, empty weight 18.4 tons + internal fuel 9.6 tons, + 6 Astr-3 SFDR (1,320 Kg) + 2 R-73 (210 Kg) = almost 31 tons, MTOW 38.8 tons.
J-36 has many speculations on size, weight, etc. One of them is estimated at 22.8m/75 ft long
I took their drawings from Google search, resized & superimposed & it looks like this:



Just look at J-36 span engulfing Su-3X



I superimposed their front views at their nose tip.



That's a BIG gappu jet
If we think Su-3X to be BIG Elephant then J-36 is Mammoth

 

[Vinod Patter]

The IAF need for 45 Squadrons

There is a need of a honest debate on Indian IAF need to have 45 squadrons. The debate should avoid all stakeholders who have been shouting about 45 squadrons.

The need for 45 squadrons was set in 1991 when the fighter jets of the era were much less capable compared to what airforces of the world are acquiring today. Also the armaments carried by the fighter jets today are much more capable compared to 1991 era weapons.

Moreover the world’s airforces including the most capable Israeli Airforce has reduced the number of fighters they operate.

There are other reasons which require that we rethink about 45 squadrons.

1. The air defence systems have become very capable hence the fighter jets have to stay as far as possible from air defence missiles.

2. The advent of stealth fighters make the air battle with non stealth fighter an impossible task.

Hence think thru it and go all out for stealth fighters than 4 or 4.5 edition fighter but much less in numbers.

Argument to and for 45 squadrons are invited in the new year.

Welcome 2025.

To fight against capable enemies like China and Pakistan even 45 squadron is not adequate. IAF always wanted sanctioned strength of fighter squadron to be atleast 55 squadrons minimum. It was the government of that time which forced the IAF to reduce its requirement to 42 squadrons. Today's Air defence is far more capable and dense, PLAAF has large number of fighters along with firepower of PLARF to bomb Indian Airfield with immense firepower, attrition should be accounted for in full fledged high intensity conflict. As for Israelis, their squadron strength has increased to a great extent. During 1967 six days war when Israeli Air force conducted operation Focus, they had only 220 fighters, out of which 180 fighters took part in the operation. During War of Attrition along Suez canal they had similar strength. During Yomkipur War they increased their fighter strength. Operation Mole Cricket 19 when Israeli Air Force destroyed 30 Syrian SAM sites ( SA-6, SA-3 and Divina) and shot down 84 Syrian fighter jets in intense Air Combat over Bekaa Valley in just 3 days, they had only 25 F-15 and around 100 F-16. Now the strength of Israeli Air Force is all time high with more than 300 fourth generation and fifth generation fighters. So instead of reducing their number, they actually increased their fighter strength. So actual requirement of Indian Air Force is 55 squadrons, 45 squadron strength is a compromise with national security.

 

[shade2]

So actual requirement of Indian Air Force is 55 squadrons, 45 squadron strength is a compromise with national security.

Hope Air Marshalls don't read this, especially the F-15 and F-16 bits.

Otherwise we will soon see requirement of 180 Rafales
and 90 F-35s to "counter China"

"Afterall if Israeli Jets are 100% imported, why shouldn't ours be? Why should we settle for inferior MiG 21++++ Made by HAL? Do you bloody civilians not buy imported products? "

 

[GaudaNaresh]

To fight against capable enemies like China and Pakistan even 45 squadron is not adequate. IAF always wanted sanctioned strength of fighter squadron to be atleast 55 squadrons minimum. It was the government of that time which forced the IAF to reduce its requirement to 42 squadrons. Today's Air defence is far more capable and dense, PLAAF has large number of fighters along with firepower of PLARF to bomb Indian Airfield with immense firepower, attrition should be accounted for in full fledged high intensity conflict. As for Israelis, their squadron strength has increased to a great extent. During 1967 six days war when Israeli Air force conducted operation Focus, they had only 220 fighters, out of which 180 fighters took part in the operation. During War of Attrition along Suez canal they had similar strength. During Yomkipur War they increased their fighter strength. Operation Mole Cricket 19 when Israeli Air Force destroyed 30 Syrian SAM sites ( SA-6, SA-3 and Divina) and shot down 84 Syrian fighter jets in intense Air Combat over Bekaa Valley in just 3 days, they had only 25 F-15 and around 100 F-16. Now the strength of Israeli Air Force is all time high with more than 300 fourth generation and fifth generation fighters. So instead of reducing their number, they actually increased their fighter strength. So actual requirement of Indian Air Force is 55 squadrons, 45 squadron strength is a compromise with national security.

Dont worry saar, when time comes, which may be at the end of our lifetime, we will meet 42 squadrons and then solve the problem of needing more squadrons by fattening up our squadrons.
Always struck me interesting that IAF squadron size is 18, when USAF and some other AF squadron size is 24.

 

[Hari Sud]

Hope Air Marshalls don't read this, especially the F-15 and F-16 bits.

Otherwise we will soon see requirement of 180 Rafales
and 90 F-35s to "counter China"

"Afterall if Israeli Jets are 100% imported, why shouldn't ours be? Why should we settle for inferior MiG 21++++ Made by HAL? Do you bloody civilians not buy imported products? "

BS....

You acquire whatever you can afford. All procurement delays are money related delays leaving aside DRDO inefficiencies.

 

[Vinod Patter]

Dont worry saar, when time comes, which may be at the end of our lifetime, we will meet 42 squadrons and then solve the problem of needing more squadrons by fattening up our squadrons.
Always struck me interesting that IAF squadron size is 18, when USAF and some other AF squadron size is 24.

Some squadrons have 20 aircraft in IAF. I think Jaguar squadrons have 20 or more aircraft each.

 

[Vinod Patter]

Mig 21 is not the only outdated equipment in service with IAF, they still operate SA-3 Pichora and SA-8 OSAKHA squadrons and they are not gonna retire them up until 2030 atleast or beyond. There are 21 Pichora squadrons still operating and never upgraded, same old rusted equipment of 1980s when we acquired them. If you guys study about Arab Israel conflicts, first Gulf war, No fly zone over Iraq during 90s, you will realise we acquired outdated SA-3 and SA-8 OSAKHA for Airforce and SA-6 and SA-8 OSAKHA for army back in 1980s when they were already used in many conflicts and western Airforces were familiar with that equipment. Russians were replacing these above mentioned systems with BUK air defence system.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Some squadrons have 20 aircraft in IAF. I think Jaguar squadrons have 20 or more aircraft each.

Are you sure ? Can u name the squadron coz i have never heard of IAF squadron size being more than 18.
Also does anyone know what is the rationale behind these numbers ? 18, 24 or say 20 like above ??
Seems arbitrary to outsiders like me.

 

[Hari Sud]

Mig 21 is not the only outdated equipment in service with IAF, they still operate SA-3 Pichora and SA-8 OSAKHA squadrons and they are not gonna retire them up until 2030 atleast or beyond. There are 21 Pichora squadrons still operating and never upgraded, same old rusted equipment of 1980s when we acquired them. If you guys study about Arab Israel conflicts, first Gulf war, No fly zone over Iraq during 90s, you will realise we acquired outdated SA-3 and SA-8 OSAKHA for Airforce and SA-6 and SA-8 OSAKHA for army back in 1980s when they were already used in many conflicts and western Airforces were familiar with that equipment. Russians were replacing these above mentioned systems with BUK air defence system.

Do not believe the West’s media reporters. The current MIG-29 in Indian inventory is a highly upgraded fighter with very little comparison to the original MIG-21. It is short on long range Beyond Visual Range missiles, otherwise a F-16 cannot match it.

 

[narasimh]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrR9yXGuyrw

 

[Srinivas]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrR9yXGuyrw

India is loosing fighter jet competition to technology demonstrators and CGI from China.

 

[sameer]

India is loosing fighter jet competition to technology demonstrators and CGI from China.

My man, they have 200 J20's and are manufacturing those at a rate 100 a year. They'll probably have close to 1000 in less than a decade and we'll still be at prototype phase and setting up committees. This cope work anymore.

 

[Ayan Barat]

India is loosing fighter jet competition to technology demonstrators and CGI from China.

Well that's one way to put it

Another would be; Indian air-force is so under-equipped and obsolete that even technology demonstrator and CGI from China are making us contemplate everything.

 

[Aaj Ka Hero]

IAF's Sukhoi Su-30MMKI Indigenous EW Suite Named As Yodha And Anidra; Development Completed AoN Granted

The Indian Air Force's (IAF) Sukhoi Su-30MKI is set to undergo significant upgrades, particularly with the introduction of an indigenous ele...

www.indiandefensenews.in

 

[Hari Sud]

Well that's one way to put it

Another would be; Indian air-force is so under-equipped and obsolete that even technology demonstrator and CGI from China are making us contemplate everything.

Nobody in the neighborhood is better equipped than IAF.

A huge propaganda is kept going by the Chinese and their Indian supporter about the invincibility of Chinese military hardware. That is used to scare Indian public.

Nothing is true; Chinese hardware is second rate. When the push comes to shove the Chinese hardware will fail. Their numbers are large and that is the greatest concern. That is advantage Chinese have at China Sea area. But that advantage is neutralized in the Himalayas, when they face Indians in equal numbers.

The same is true with Pakistan supplied with Chinese hardware.

Hence they are after you to lower your confidence. Do not let them succeed. Stay confident. They can threaten but can do no harm.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Nobody in the neighborhood is better equipped than IAF.

Totally agree with you Sir, not just the best equipped air-force in neighbourhood but also the fourth biggest in the world in terms of firepower.

It would be so kind of you if you can just quote me some small figures for this fourth biggest air force.

1. How many AWACS do we have?
2. How many aerial refueler we have?
3. What are the numbers of advanced, heavy attack helicopter?
4. Which stealth jet is currently in service with us?
5. What percentage of our fighters are currently flying with an AESA radar?
6. What is the production capacity of our mainstay BVR-AAM?
7. How many dedicated electronic warfare planes are there?
8. How good is our strategic heavy lift capability?
9. Half of our heavy lift capability, Il-76 (other half being C-17s) suffered from serious spare parts issues; so is it resolved or not?
10. How many of our airbases are protected using a modern, multi-layered Air Defence system?
11. How many of our fighters are so obsolete that they'd be nothing more than a flying coffin in case of a full scale war?
12. As we're taking about fighters; do we have adequate numbers of fighters for a full-fledged war?
13. How good is IAF going to perform in a GNSS denied environment? Do we have back-up?
14. What is the production rate of guidance kits for our bombs? Do we have sufficient guidance kit?
15. What is our current status in SEAD/DEAD mission? Do we have sufficient platform, weapons and especially training required for such mission.

Not a single question involved China or Pakistan, it's just we and we. So I guess there won't be any effect of Chinese propaganda.

 

[Hari Sud]

Totally agree with you Sir, not just the best equipped air-force in neighbourhood but also the fourth biggest in the world in terms of firepower.

It would be so kind of you if you can just quote me some small figures for this fourth biggest air force.

1. How many AWACS do we have?
2. How many aerial refueler we have?
3. What are the numbers of advanced, heavy attack helicopter?
4. Which stealth jet is currently in service with us?
5. What percentage of our fighters are currently flying with an AESA radar?
6. What is the production capacity of our mainstay BVR-AAM?
7. How many dedicated electronic warfare planes are there?
8. How good is our strategic heavy lift capability?
9. Half of our heavy lift capability, Il-76 (other half being C-17s) suffered from serious spare parts issues; so is it resolved or not?
10. How many of our airbases are protected using a modern, multi-layered Air Defence system?
11. How many of our fighters are so obsolete that they'd be nothing more than a flying coffin in case of a full scale war?
12. As we're taking about fighters; do we have adequate numbers of fighters for a full-fledged war?
13. How good is IAF going to perform in a GNSS denied environment? Do we have back-up?
14. What is the production rate of guidance kits for our bombs? Do we have sufficient guidance kit?
15. What is our current status in SEAD/DEAD mission? Do we have sufficient platform, weapons and especially training required for such mission.

Not a single question involved China or Pakistan, it's just we and we. So I guess there won't be any effect of Chinese propaganda.

Wrong boyish question posed….

Pose yourself the question that how many AWACS or Refueller or electronic warfare planes or stealth fighters the Chinese can divert from their Eastern front at China Sea to the Himalayas. That is good way of analysis than copying their propaganda numbers.

I have one or two answers for you….. They have two inferior AWACS in Tibet and Sinkiang, one each. Their engines are mostly under repair hence a third one is diverted.

They have one refueller and one standby in the Himalayas.

They had four stealth fighters in Tibet; they were withdrawn from Himalayan service soon after two years back the Rafale managed to track them in the air. Newer replacements will arrive whenever the newer one is available. The previous one are still there but these do not fly closer to the Himalayas.

That kind of military hardware is unlikely to scare the Indian armed forces who have fought 4 large scale wars and Chinese have fought none after 1962. They lost 1978 war with Vietnam. That they do not want to talk about.