Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[vampyrbladez]

HAL forms panel to negotiate GE-F414 deal with US, aims to ink it by March 2025

https://aninews.in/news/national/general-news/hal-forms-panel-to-negotiate-ge-f414-deal-with-us-aims-to-ink-it-by-march-202520241231215329/

 

[Ayan Barat]

HAL forms panel to negotiate GE-F414 deal with US, aims to ink it by March 2025

https://aninews.in/news/national/general-news/hal-forms-panel-to-negotiate-ge-f414-deal-with-us-aims-to-ink-it-by-march-202520241231215329/

If someone gave me a F-35A, each time a new committee or panel was set up then today I'd have had 25 squadrons.

Again, not much but still...

 

[Charlie]

It is better to ((( keep getting dates ))) rather than chop up and throw DRDO, HAL to suit-boot wolves, with that after the dhandhos have finished digesting and shitting out whatever they had, you will get absolutely nothing, atleast at the end of Tariq pe Tariq you will get an IOC Tejas or Prachand or Arjun or ATAGS even if Genrols don't place big order.

Private sector dhandhos cannot compete with phoren orgs in terms of bribes and favors, max is they will do screwdrivergiri like Tata is doing in an attempt to eat the crumbs that fall from Foreign Vendor masta's table

I don't blame the dhandhos, they have to see their profit, revenue and all, no point fighting with Genrols and Air Marshlols since they have no skin in the same and are better served by doing screwdriver giri of Impoorted platforms which get the profits

Ask Baba Kalyani, the old man has made like 6 different artillery systems including like 2 self propelled ones, but the only order he has got till now is for the screwdrivered version of South African MPV Mbombe 4 called Kalyani M4 in Import Army service.

Tata is a production agency like Hal let’s see how many they deliver before their deadline, I guess all c295 will be delivered on time And in the next gen transport requirement they will become system integrators and will have a design of their own.

That’s how private industry will grow on value chain.

Solar industry is another example where they finished the multi mode grenade contract much before the deadline and ofb still cannot deliver half of what they produced, even Bharat forge is another example what private can do compared to Awil or something the old OFB they cannot even deliver 155 gun till now. Has been 5 years almost now.

In Soviet Union there was competition between firms even though they were run by government, in India there is no production agency other then HAL it’s a monopoly, why would they even put effort when they gets orders anyways.

For the last 60 years if you feel this psu brought change in defence industry then you are living in different world, most of the achievements are done by private players and msme in last 10 years.

If you are happy with lch and TEJAS then all power to you but after putting so much money in, you get only that then it’s an issue.

Armed forces will take time but slowly they will shift to indigenous products and the share of private companies will grow in coming years. Once there is a production agency challenging HAL, that’s when their nightmare starts. Airforce is trying to do that trying to get MRCA and they don’t want HAL to be production agency. They want a competitor to HAL

Who know AMCA production order might go different production agency in future.

Private industry will find a way to survive even if they don’t get contracts from the armed forces like bharat forge, tonbo, solar but DPSU won’t they will keep leeching on government forcing the government to get them some orders.

Even Adani which is just doing TOT right now will come up with their own designs in future which the DPSU didn’t in last 50 years

 

[Hari Sud]

The IAF need for 45 Squadrons

There is a need of a honest debate on Indian IAF need to have 45 squadrons. The debate should avoid all stakeholders who have been shouting about 45 squadrons.

The need for 45 squadrons was set in 1991 when the fighter jets of the era were much less capable compared to what airforces of the world are acquiring today. Also the armaments carried by the fighter jets today are much more capable compared to 1991 era weapons.

Moreover the world’s airforces including the most capable Israeli Airforce has reduced the number of fighters they operate.

There are other reasons which require that we rethink about 45 squadrons.

1. The air defence systems have become very capable hence the fighter jets have to stay as far as possible from air defence missiles.

2. The advent of stealth fighters make the air battle with non stealth fighter an impossible task.

Hence think thru it and go all out for stealth fighters than 4 or 4.5 edition fighter but much less in numbers.

Argument to and for 45 squadrons are invited in the new year.

Welcome 2025.

 

[high_IQ_bharatiya_sainik]

Hari sus sir where do you live? Whats your profession? I saw you in idrw.org as well.

 

[iNorthernerOn9]

Minimum Squadron requirement as per perceived areas of responsibility in a multi front war... totally my imagination.

Myanmar(Surprise PLAAF ingress) + Bangladesh = 3 Squadron

NE-Tibet front from Sikkim to Arunachal = 6 Squadrons

Bihar to Himachal(Nepal-Tibet border) = 6 squadrons (PLAAF can make ingress through Nepal)

Ladakh-AksaiChin-Siachen-Pok(Area where the 2 prominent fronts converge) = 6 Squadrons

Punjab-Rajasthan-Delhi = 9 Squadrons (Delhi catering as backup for UKD front)

Gujarat-MH (Air defence & Maritime strike) = 6 squadrons

Andaman & Nicobar & rest of South India = 3 squadrons. (The naval fighter arm will bear the bigger responsibility here)

Minimum 39 squadrons of multirole combat aircraft.

 

[Hari Sud]

Hari sus sir where do you live? Whats your profession? I saw you in idrw.org as well.

Toronto, Canada.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

HAL forms panel to negotiate GE-F414 deal with US, aims to ink it by March 2025

https://aninews.in/news/national/general-news/hal-forms-panel-to-negotiate-ge-f414-deal-with-us-aims-to-ink-it-by-march-202520241231215329/

Start praying to BTS because the consignment will likely be fulfilled by Hanwha.

 

[narasimh]

The IAF need for 45 Squadrons

There is a need of a honest debate on Indian IAF need to have 45 squadrons. The debate should avoid all stakeholders who have been shouting about 45 squadrons.

The need for 45 squadrons was set in 1991 when the fighter jets of the era were much less capable compared to what airforces of the world are acquiring today. Also the armaments carried by the fighter jets today are much more capable compared to 1991 era weapons.

Moreover the world’s airforces including the most capable Israeli Airforce has reduced the number of fighters they operate.

There are other reasons which require that we rethink about 45 squadrons.

1. The air defence systems have become very capable hence the fighter jets have to stay as far as possible from air defence missiles.

2. The advent of stealth fighters make the air battle with non stealth fighter an impossible task.

Hence think thru it and go all out for stealth fighters than 4 or 4.5 edition fighter but much less in numbers.

Argument to and for 45 squadrons are invited in the new year.

Welcome 2025.

The hawk trainers will have a role to play as well during war. At least ground support they can very well provide. Are those considered in calculations of IAF

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

The new J-36 is probably just a tech demonstrator but a derivative is/are probably coming next before 2030 perhaps & our Su-30MKI is our only heavy big fighter & will have to deal with it.
Su-30MKI is 21.9m/72 ft long, empty weight 18.4 tons + internal fuel 9.6 tons, + 6 Astr-3 SFDR (1,320 Kg) + 2 R-73 (210 Kg) = almost 31 tons, MTOW 38.8 tons.
J-36 has many speculations on size, weight, etc. One of them is estimated at 22.8m/75 ft long
I took their drawings from Google search, resized & superimposed & it looks like this:



Just look at J-36 span engulfing Su-3X



I superimposed their front views at their nose tip.



That's a BIG gappu jet
If we think Su-3X to be BIG Elephant then J-36 is Mammoth

 

[Vinod Patter]

The IAF need for 45 Squadrons

There is a need of a honest debate on Indian IAF need to have 45 squadrons. The debate should avoid all stakeholders who have been shouting about 45 squadrons.

The need for 45 squadrons was set in 1991 when the fighter jets of the era were much less capable compared to what airforces of the world are acquiring today. Also the armaments carried by the fighter jets today are much more capable compared to 1991 era weapons.

Moreover the world’s airforces including the most capable Israeli Airforce has reduced the number of fighters they operate.

There are other reasons which require that we rethink about 45 squadrons.

1. The air defence systems have become very capable hence the fighter jets have to stay as far as possible from air defence missiles.

2. The advent of stealth fighters make the air battle with non stealth fighter an impossible task.

Hence think thru it and go all out for stealth fighters than 4 or 4.5 edition fighter but much less in numbers.

Argument to and for 45 squadrons are invited in the new year.

Welcome 2025.

To fight against capable enemies like China and Pakistan even 45 squadron is not adequate. IAF always wanted sanctioned strength of fighter squadron to be atleast 55 squadrons minimum. It was the government of that time which forced the IAF to reduce its requirement to 42 squadrons. Today's Air defence is far more capable and dense, PLAAF has large number of fighters along with firepower of PLARF to bomb Indian Airfield with immense firepower, attrition should be accounted for in full fledged high intensity conflict. As for Israelis, their squadron strength has increased to a great extent. During 1967 six days war when Israeli Air force conducted operation Focus, they had only 220 fighters, out of which 180 fighters took part in the operation. During War of Attrition along Suez canal they had similar strength. During Yomkipur War they increased their fighter strength. Operation Mole Cricket 19 when Israeli Air Force destroyed 30 Syrian SAM sites ( SA-6, SA-3 and Divina) and shot down 84 Syrian fighter jets in intense Air Combat over Bekaa Valley in just 3 days, they had only 25 F-15 and around 100 F-16. Now the strength of Israeli Air Force is all time high with more than 300 fourth generation and fifth generation fighters. So instead of reducing their number, they actually increased their fighter strength. So actual requirement of Indian Air Force is 55 squadrons, 45 squadron strength is a compromise with national security.

 

[shade2]

So actual requirement of Indian Air Force is 55 squadrons, 45 squadron strength is a compromise with national security.

Hope Air Marshalls don't read this, especially the F-15 and F-16 bits.

Otherwise we will soon see requirement of 180 Rafales
and 90 F-35s to "counter China"

"Afterall if Israeli Jets are 100% imported, why shouldn't ours be? Why should we settle for inferior MiG 21++++ Made by HAL? Do you bloody civilians not buy imported products? "

 

[GaudaNaresh]

To fight against capable enemies like China and Pakistan even 45 squadron is not adequate. IAF always wanted sanctioned strength of fighter squadron to be atleast 55 squadrons minimum. It was the government of that time which forced the IAF to reduce its requirement to 42 squadrons. Today's Air defence is far more capable and dense, PLAAF has large number of fighters along with firepower of PLARF to bomb Indian Airfield with immense firepower, attrition should be accounted for in full fledged high intensity conflict. As for Israelis, their squadron strength has increased to a great extent. During 1967 six days war when Israeli Air force conducted operation Focus, they had only 220 fighters, out of which 180 fighters took part in the operation. During War of Attrition along Suez canal they had similar strength. During Yomkipur War they increased their fighter strength. Operation Mole Cricket 19 when Israeli Air Force destroyed 30 Syrian SAM sites ( SA-6, SA-3 and Divina) and shot down 84 Syrian fighter jets in intense Air Combat over Bekaa Valley in just 3 days, they had only 25 F-15 and around 100 F-16. Now the strength of Israeli Air Force is all time high with more than 300 fourth generation and fifth generation fighters. So instead of reducing their number, they actually increased their fighter strength. So actual requirement of Indian Air Force is 55 squadrons, 45 squadron strength is a compromise with national security.

Dont worry saar, when time comes, which may be at the end of our lifetime, we will meet 42 squadrons and then solve the problem of needing more squadrons by fattening up our squadrons.
Always struck me interesting that IAF squadron size is 18, when USAF and some other AF squadron size is 24.

 

[Hari Sud]

Hope Air Marshalls don't read this, especially the F-15 and F-16 bits.

Otherwise we will soon see requirement of 180 Rafales
and 90 F-35s to "counter China"

"Afterall if Israeli Jets are 100% imported, why shouldn't ours be? Why should we settle for inferior MiG 21++++ Made by HAL? Do you bloody civilians not buy imported products? "

BS....

You acquire whatever you can afford. All procurement delays are money related delays leaving aside DRDO inefficiencies.

 

[Vinod Patter]

Dont worry saar, when time comes, which may be at the end of our lifetime, we will meet 42 squadrons and then solve the problem of needing more squadrons by fattening up our squadrons.
Always struck me interesting that IAF squadron size is 18, when USAF and some other AF squadron size is 24.

Some squadrons have 20 aircraft in IAF. I think Jaguar squadrons have 20 or more aircraft each.

 

[Vinod Patter]

Mig 21 is not the only outdated equipment in service with IAF, they still operate SA-3 Pichora and SA-8 OSAKHA squadrons and they are not gonna retire them up until 2030 atleast or beyond. There are 21 Pichora squadrons still operating and never upgraded, same old rusted equipment of 1980s when we acquired them. If you guys study about Arab Israel conflicts, first Gulf war, No fly zone over Iraq during 90s, you will realise we acquired outdated SA-3 and SA-8 OSAKHA for Airforce and SA-6 and SA-8 OSAKHA for army back in 1980s when they were already used in many conflicts and western Airforces were familiar with that equipment. Russians were replacing these above mentioned systems with BUK air defence system.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

Some squadrons have 20 aircraft in IAF. I think Jaguar squadrons have 20 or more aircraft each.

Are you sure ? Can u name the squadron coz i have never heard of IAF squadron size being more than 18.
Also does anyone know what is the rationale behind these numbers ? 18, 24 or say 20 like above ??
Seems arbitrary to outsiders like me.

 

[Hari Sud]

Mig 21 is not the only outdated equipment in service with IAF, they still operate SA-3 Pichora and SA-8 OSAKHA squadrons and they are not gonna retire them up until 2030 atleast or beyond. There are 21 Pichora squadrons still operating and never upgraded, same old rusted equipment of 1980s when we acquired them. If you guys study about Arab Israel conflicts, first Gulf war, No fly zone over Iraq during 90s, you will realise we acquired outdated SA-3 and SA-8 OSAKHA for Airforce and SA-6 and SA-8 OSAKHA for army back in 1980s when they were already used in many conflicts and western Airforces were familiar with that equipment. Russians were replacing these above mentioned systems with BUK air defence system.

Do not believe the West’s media reporters. The current MIG-29 in Indian inventory is a highly upgraded fighter with very little comparison to the original MIG-21. It is short on long range Beyond Visual Range missiles, otherwise a F-16 cannot match it.