LCA TEJAS MK-I & MK-IA: News and Discussion

[samsaptaka]

Radar spj done
Astra trial pending
Asraam trial pending

How can weapons cert be done without the aircraft flying due to non delivery of engines by GE ? Surely IAF knows this ? And HAL could not have ordered engines pre planned because orders are low and contract signed later after 3 years. No one places orders expensive components like engines unless a contract is signed. Some one should have asked IAF chief this question?

 

[Gandaberunda]

How can weapons cert be done without the aircraft flying due to non delivery of engines by GE ? Surely IAF knows this ? And HAL could not have ordered engines pre planned because orders are low and contract signed later after 3 years. No one places orders expensive components like engines unless a contract is signed. Some one should have asked IAF chief this question?

HAL built LCH out of own funds and proved their might in Himalayas shameless IAF used the airframes after galwan for photo ops deploying in Leh but years passed yet no orders placed. if you ask motor mouth Air marshal he will gladly place orders for Apache which struggled in mountains and was stuck on mountains for months.

 

[Anants]

HAL built LCH out of own funds and proved their might in Himalayas shameless IAF used the airframes after galwan for photo ops deploying in Leh but years passed yet no orders placed. if you ask motor mouth Air marshal he will gladly place orders for Apache which struggled in mountains and was stuck on mountains for months.

LCH still needs Anti Tank and Air to Air IIR integration. It still just sports gun and unguided rocket.

 

[Gandaberunda]

LCH still needs Anti Tank and Air to Air IIR integration. It still just sports gun and unguided rocket.

Yeah without these IAF shamelessly parading LCH in forward bases during galwan conflict?

 

[Anants]

Yeah without these IAF shamelessly parading LCH in forward bases during galwan conflict?

Dunno where it was parading but I do know high altitude tests were conducted in region where Army was deployed. 3 were inducted for User Familiarity and suitability trials I guess. is this not what defence nerds wanted to for forces to induct limited no of platforms without complete weapon integration? Thats what they did. But 3 years have passed we still dont hear much about weapons package finalized and tested for LCH. But I guess they must be close give a Large order of LCH is said to be on anvil.

 

[Gandaberunda]

Dunno where it was parading but I do know high altitude tests were conducted in region where Army was deployed. 3 were inducted for User Familiarity and suitability trials I guess. is this not what defence nerds wanted to for forces to induct limited no of platforms without complete weapon integration? Thats what they did. But 3 years have passed we still dont hear much about weapons package finalized and tested for LCH. But I guess they must be close give a Large order of LCH is said to be on anvil.

IAF was mocking porks JF17 when they inducted in numbers without BVR missiles and called 3 legged cheetah the same fighter after years came at us in 2019 skirmish. IAF will induct anything foreign but keep crying on indigenous weapons and aircrafts.

 

[705-Lira]

In a test of UTTAM radar with around 900 TR-modules, It was able to track LCA Mk-1 at a range of 140kms.
If we consider LCA's RCS to be > 1 Sq meter, this is a very good detection range for such a small target!
Now imagine Virupaksha GaN radar on MKI with 2000+ TR modules!
View attachment 25022

That said, I am still not sure if the target LCA used in this test was in clean configuration or It was carrying some sort of external loads.
I think the RCS of LCA MK-1 in clean configuration is at least between 1 m² to 0.5 m². 0.5 m² seems to be a stretch, I would say take it to be around 1 m².
I mean it would make sense to use a small jet like Tejas, in clean configuration to gauge out the detection range of low RCS targets.
Feel free to believe what you want!

There are a lot of sources on the internet citing this incident where UTTAM was able to track Tejas from 140 kms, you can look it up yourself.

I had read this on DFI I think a year or two back so decided to post it on Twitter/X but it's on the internet too.

Spoiler: Source is my own Tweet.

View: https://x.com/TheMrFoxhound/status/1888937215004230080?t=u9qUofqESEAuZLc43bHDHA&s=19

This exercise was conducted back in 2017 when the 912 TRM version of the Uttam AESA radar didn't exist, this exercise is likey conducted with the 768 TRM version of the Uttam AESA.

 

[AbRaj]

Does he read newspapers that engine supply was stopped by USA not HAL.

No, you must inform this uninformed Airforce Chief.
Its your duty as an esteemed online forum member

 

[ArjunMK1A]

HAL built LCH out of own funds and proved their might in Himalayas shameless IAF used the airframes after galwan for photo ops deploying in Leh but years passed yet no orders placed. if you ask motor mouth Air marshal he will gladly place orders for Apache which struggled in mountains and was stuck on mountains for months.

Currently, LCH only have integrated Mistral currently. Other things like Unguided rockets, 20mm gun can we done even to Cheetah.

But we don't know the exact reason why it is an mystery to integrate ATGM. Attack helicopters without ATGM is joke in this era. Can't blame IAF here. If Rudra is tested with Dhruvastra. Then Prachand should also been tested with Dhruvastra. Till now we did not hear anything from HAL regarding ATGM integration.

Ordering the platform is fine. But basic ATGM weapons certification is going on for long time, which is a big issue. We are not trying to do attach some super duper weapons.

Anyways, Prachand will be ordered soon, which is the news we got.

On the other hand, sitting on Tejas for last decade is a crime, when IOC-II got clearance in 2013 and you did not started bulk ordering to phase out MIG 21 and wasted 7 years. Because at that time, 20 years passed after SU-30MKI bulk orders and you are loosing aircrafts.

 

[AbRaj]

GE can delay engine deliveries for years at a stretch and IAF loudmouths will be fast asleep. If couple of sub-systems are pending testing in an entire aircraft made inside India, IAF chief suddenly finds his voice

Russia is able to fight a war lasting 2+ years as their armed force will fight with sticks if they have to as long as it is made inside Russia.

Let's just pray China does not get in mood to screw us anytime soon as our gold-plated western weaponry buyers will simply take flight to their kids homes in NY, Paris or London and leave foot soldiers to bear the brunt and consequences of their grift

Fortunately for them they don’t have beHAL and GuTtRE in Russia.

 

[AbRaj]

View: https://x.com/Griezmenace/status/1889262493295591638

Indians are excellent larpers of imported products. Even their OEM don’t brag so much for their own products.

 

[AbRaj]

First, IAF cheif does not directly deals with GE, he will deal with HAL as he's getting his jets from Hal.
GE manufactures a "component" for the jet, GE is the supplier of HAL, it's HAL job to talk with them.

And as he didn't complain about engine to Hal means he understands that engines are not their fault, his complains are about things on which Hal has complete control over.

Imagine supplying Absolute zero products to the customer and then bitching about anger of the customer. Havd it been a pvt company or any other country, few dozen heads must have been rolled by now for incompetence

 

[AbRaj]

Didn't just last year a new / indigenous flight control computer was selected. Who opted for such massive modification just few months before scheduled delivery.

Can you please tell us Who asked this change to begin with? Was it IAF or HAL itself, in view of the successful indigenisation of said component ?
You wanted to keep importing something which in now being locally produced?
Or you are angry that why IAF Chief has exposed beHAL’s badhali in front of the public that was frankly an open secret to begin with. Its a fact that HAL is a sick organization and needs a chemo to stay alive

 

[Nutcracker]

Can you please tell us Who asked this change to begin with? Was it IAF or HAL itself, in view of the successful indigenisation of said component ?
You wanted to keep importing something which in now being locally produced?
Or you are angry that why IAF Chief has exposed beHAL’s badhali in front of the public that was frankly an open secret to begin with. Its a fact that HAL is a sick organization and needs a chemo to stay alive

You tell me, can HAL go ahead with such massive changes ie. flight control computer without taking imported AF marshall in the loop.

 

[AbRaj]

A trusted birdie spends its days next to Desi beauty's data analysis systems and often flies through most inaccessible cabins in Walchand Hirachand's company. Happened to sit on the same branch as the birdie after a long time for a short talk soon after first crash of Desi beauty. Here is what the birdie said,

# Group of Desi beauties takes off for high profile exercise where top most political and military bosses are waiting to watch what the beauties can do

# Immediately after takeoff, pilot of one beauty reports engine sound is not as usual and something is amiss though Sensors don't show anything abnormal yet

# Flight controllers ask Pilot to continue as planned, maybe they don't trust the pilot ears or decided to take the risk

# Fortunately things go fine at the dance stage but the beauty's engine seizes up when its almost back home. Pilot safely ejects and the beauty goes down very gracefully even without pilot at controls

# Experienced birdies at Walchand Hirachand run through beauty's data and figure out that a lubricant oil was drained / not loaded. They share related data to Amrikan supplier who confirms their suspicion

# Looks like somebody figured out how to drain the oil without triggering sensors immediately and did it hoping for spectacular crash before or on dance stage

# Top aatmanirbhar Maanav is unofficialy updated of actual reason for crash. Naturally enraged, he orders multiple top brass at Vayu Sena should personally take sorties on Desi beauty to affirm they will take good care of Desi beauty and not abandon her lusting after imported hotties. Top Brass forced to do needfull to cool down Maanav

# Actual story is carefully buried to avoid embrassment to Vayu sena and Desh. It is decided to make Oil Pump scapegoat for official records

Did employees of Walchand Hirachand's company make a public spectacle of the fact that some folks at Vayu Sena physically sabotaged Desi Beauty in sheer desperation to derail its brilliant safety record? Did they leak to press about how rotten our Sena is when it comes to import vs Desi? Did they talk within hearing distance of aam jantha of how this is very similar to driving Arjun In reverse gear for KMs until gearbox was damaged beyond repair to call it faulty?

Question that should be asked is who was organisation responsible for that fatal error ?
Was it IAF’s or the HAL’s maintenance guy ?

 

[AbRaj]

You tell me, can HAL go ahead with such massive changes ie. flight control computer without taking imported AF marshall in the loop.

I don’t work for either one. But why sign the contact when you are such an incompetent company that you are sure not gona deliver it
You should have given realistic timeline for the deliverey like 20 years to deliver 32 Light fighter or 1.5 years to deliver Hot Air plus 0 Light fighter
You should have been true to yourself and just refused to accept the unrealistic( as per your own supersonic speed) timeline

 

[Nutcracker]

You should have given realistic timeline for the deliverey like 20 years to deliver 32 Light fighter or 1.5 years to deliver Hot Air plus 0 Light fighter

You still don't understand the concept of ordersize. Who told IAF to give chump orders like 16-4-16-4 when their Mig21 suqadrons were dwindling ?

 

[AbRaj]

How can weapons cert be done without the aircraft flying due to non delivery of engines by GE ? Surely IAF knows this ? And HAL could not have ordered engines pre planned because orders are low and contract signed later after 3 years. No one places orders expensive components like engines unless a contract is signed. Some one should have asked IAF chief this question?

Same engine is being used in earlier versions of same light fighter for which contract has been signed as early as in 2006. They don’t have necessary 2.5 engines per aircraft necessary for those too.

 

[AbRaj]

You still don't understand the concept of ordersize. Who told IAF to give chump orders like 16-4-16-4 when their Mig21 suqadrons were dwindling ?

What should have they done ? Give an order of 1000 jets, knowing well the HAL’s track record. No one is that stupid. 42 or 110 is not a small quantity when you don’t have existing capability to produce even half a dozen in a year. It’ll take centuries to fulfill that order given HAL-speed. And by consistently non-performing, HAL has made sure that no one is going to believe on their words in future too. They had good opportunity to scale up things during Mk1 and Mk1A but they have failed in both

 

[Nutcracker]

What should have they done ? Give an order of 1000 jets, knowing well the HAL’s track record. No one is that stupid. 42 or 110 is not a small quantity when you don’t have existing capability to produce even half a dozen in a year. It’ll take centuries to fulfill that order given HAL-speed. And by consistently non-performing, HAL has made sure that no one is going to believe on their words in future too. They had good opportunity to scale up things during Mk1 and Mk1A but they have failed in both

Yes , why don't they try order of 1000.
HAL doesn't produce most of the components. It outsources them to MSMEs (So does GE etc), And your MSME are not LM OR BOEING , they could go bankrupt or shut down due to small or no order. Happen's with GE's suppliers too, especially during covid. Now imagine our MSME which are nowhere as well oiled as US - Xhinese MSME.

You should go spend some time to learn how these things happen instead of blabbering without knowledge. Btw Order of 40 was not in single tranche.