AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

I am not one of those people who reflexively ignore & belittle adversaries. Yes I agree. you only do that with Indian products.
It will be better if you drop your mail here, if any IAF official sees it. then they may consult you on offensive strategies and what else can be atrributed to "Chalta hai" attitude.

In the above video, ADA guy clearly said since AMCA will have conformal EOTS and pods are for testing of prototypes. But I guess what does he know, You are afterall working in MNC environment and must know better than him who has "CHALTA HAI" attitude.

I am not doubting Chinese tech, rather acknoledging their prowess by saying its a given for any 15+trillion dollar economy to have world class jets. calling them chinkies and porks hurt yoour soul but here you are doubting IAF's strategies and planning.

AMCA is a medium weight class and cannot extend it IWB without compromising its structure. no wait, that must be their chalta hai attitude, afterall why didn't they make heavy class aircraft? ohh wait the engine are underpowered for heavy class they must have negleted that in planning with their "chalta hai" attitude
 
This should also be asked to the program heads.
If IWB has only 4 AAMs & no SWB then only 2 big-fin BVR-AAMs + 2 CCMs can fit.

It shows again a "chalta hai" attitude, assuming 100% PK & enemy would not have tactics & countermeasures.
WVRs will still take up unnecessary space in IWB even if drdo develope a slimmer variant of astra. Moving WVRs to wingroot compartment (or somwhere else) is the solution
 
I am not one of those people who reflexively ignore & belittle adversaries. Yes I agree. you only do that with Indian products.
Our economy is also improving & will become excellent in few decades but right now how many big & critical industrial Indian products are in globally top-5 competition? Most things are imported. We always ask for ToT. ISRO succeeding but DoD lagging.🤷‍♂️
It will be better if you drop your mail here, if any IAF official sees it. then they may consult you on offensive strategies and what else can be atrributed to "Chalta hai" attitude.
But I guess what does he know, You are afterall working in MNC environment and must know better than him who has "CHALTA HAI" attitude.
:facepalm4::facepalm2::fyeah::gtfo::frusty::ROFLMAO:
GoI, IAF, DoD have already worked with civillian engineers & wan't to involve far more, but you wanna abuse us.:facepalm2:
The CHALTA HAI ATTITUDE accusation is not towards entire organisation of DoD, but to a subset of people, bcoz 1000s of people are working in there with different role, capability, opinions as well.
Many people inside IAF, ADA, DRDO, HAL might be frustrated as well for the delays. May be many good practical ideas were rejected leading to frustrated employees, resignations.

The ADA gentleman in video said that a lot of avionics & other stuff have come from private sector, means civilian techies like me. Whether it is DoD techie, or civillian techie, both are same humans with same potential.
You don't wan't private sector participation?

You don't wan't Indian students passing out of colleges to be inteligent, effective, good techies, work in good MNCs?
You don't desire to work in good company with good position, facilities, salary?

Small & big IT & other MNCs are involved in projects like LCA, AMCA, etc.
Do you notice WIPRO, TCS in box of Bengaluru?

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I've worked with some of these firms. May be currently also be i'm part of 1 of these firms. May i'm working on something related to Defence. 🤷‍♂️:noidea:
I always tell that no need to trust me, focus directly on technology.
There are 10s of 1000s of techies like me passing out of colleges every year. No matter who you ask, you will get identical response from technical PoV w/o prejudice.🤷‍♂️
I also tell that my college senior was batch topper, cracked GATE exam, worked on LCA project & told us that 1000s of DoD employees in ADA, DRDO, HAL, IAF & any tech company also have difference opinions.
I'm a low IQ techie, i was excellent in programming in school & college but never good with PCM hence couldnt get through screenng tests based on PCM to reach interviews & become a good coder, hence working in DataCenter tech in sys-admin & tech-support profiles. But DoD has requirement of CAD professionals which they consider high value, which people like me can fulfil. Too late for me but youngsters can apply.

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So don't misunderstand & attack others personally ⚠️🚨❌:nono: w/o considering how many diagrams, pics, graphs, tables, calculations, own ideas, drawings, sketches, threads, etc someone has contributed here.
Abusing, using slangs, calling critics or correction makers as D*mb F**kers , etc, is a proof of incapability of presentation & comunication skills, lack of knowledge, poor comprehension, etc. You won't be able to take these slangs on yourself either.

In the above video, ADA guy clearly said since AMCA will have conformal EOTS and pods are for testing of prototypes.
we all understand that a prototype is just TD hence uses many older gen components to save time, cost like landing gear, cockpit components, sensors, auxilliary components, etc. We could see that in YF-22/23, X-35 as well.
X-35 didn'thave EOTS, IWB, HMDS, etc.

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But public depiction of static models, infographics, animation, etc should be as close to final product as possible as it builds psycologicalimpressions, confidence, security, private investment, etc. Stock markets graphs rally up/down based on these news, depictions, predictions. It can affect supply chain & logistics.
External pod & EOTS are totally different products, have different gen, dimensions, assembly & S/w programming.
Hence external pod depiction even for testing, after 30 years of EOTS tech revealed on F-35 means our EOTS team has fallen way behind schedule.

There is still public confusion & concern that 1st IOC batch of AMCA MK1 may have these external pods.
Some people earlier even said that 1st batch MK1 will have semi-recessed AAM stations like in KF-21. :facepalm4:
If a precise question about 1st batch of AMCA MK1 can be asked & answered, i can take a breather.

But still at least i made a dipomatic reply that if these pods are jammers or DEW, then can be made hexagonal or some stealthy shape with RAM, RAS. Take example of F-22's MLU pod:

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I am not doubting Chinese tech, rather acknoledging their prowess by saying its a given for any 15+trillion dollar economy to have world class jets. calling them chinkies and porks hurt yoour soul but here you are doubting IAF's strategies and planning.
Would YOU, ME & other Indians like to be abused abroad or online by foreigners? Most foreign movies already depict us badly.
Indian IT engineers, Medical & in other domains also, have to work online, sometimes F2F with Chinese, Bangladeshis, Pakistanis, Middle-East people & other potentially hostile nations. But we just do our part of work.

There is big difference b/w criticizing & abusing. But i do criticize USA, EU, China, Pak, BD, etc where needed.
If you use such slang language in international office, you'll be fired immediately & professionally black-listed.:smash::smiley-crying::ban:
If you use such language abroad, you'll face immediate social & legal consequences.👮‍♂️🚨

Please stop this typical youngster slang/abusive mentality in international forum.⚠️

Don't you watch news what IAF Chief said yesterday & before? Today they are unhappy with HAL, tomorrow it could be with ADA, DRDO. Who predicted that IAF Chief can pass such comments?
IAF is just operator, not designer, not manufacturer, nor R&D wing,


We live in democracy, pay tax, can question anything looking to lag or out of line.

AMCA is a medium weight class and cannot extend it IWB without compromising its structure. no wait, that must be their chalta hai attitude,
What compromise exactly? Why we always want the world to do eveything 1st?
AMCA's IWB is 4.2m long X 2.2m wide. I have already shown by many scaled diagrams that 6 staggered short-fin AAMs can fit in easily. Go check my previous posts.




Look at YF-22 Vs F-22, X-35 Vs F-35. So yes it is their "chalta hai" attitude, if they don't do it.

afterall why didn't they make heavy class aircraft? ohh wait the engine are underpowered for heavy class they must have negleted that in planning with their "chalta hai" attitude
Are you aware of AHCA concept study thread?



YF-22/23 revealed in 1990, 35 years passed now.
What will be Su-30MKI replacement?
What will be future naval stealth jet?
Why MWF just inflated from LCA but not given steath treatment?
When they will be initiated then take 20 years to develop & inducted?
Why ADA not commenting on these things?
Why not negotiate AL-31/41 or F-100/110 engines for better jet like Turkey using for Kaan?
Keep watching news channels. In future the IAF people will start asking above questions.
 
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WVRs will still take up unnecessary space in IWB even if drdo develope a slimmer variant of astra. Moving WVRs to wingroot compartment (or somwhere else) is the solution
NG-CCM looks like AIM-132 ASRAAM which has LOAL capability.
Options for current IWB 4.2m X 2.2m :
Option 1 - 4 (staggered Astr-2 short-fin &/or Astr-3 SFDR) + 2 NG-CCM.
Option 2 - 4 or 6 staggered Astr-2 folding fin + 2 NG-CCM.
Option 3 - 4 staggered Astr-2 folding fin + 4 NG-CCM.
+
Wing root SWB having 1 NG-CCM each.

We should also explore VSR-CCM of 5-10 Kms range, like army's anti-drone micro-missile developed recently.
 
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F35 as MRFA is the best option they can have, given AMCA will take some time for serial production and to stabilise suply lines.
Other options are strictly no go and time and resources better be invested on MWF and AMCA. Its what we can bank on in case of war. Even few imported F35s will be shot down in early days of war. But for immediate requirement of few top line FGFA F35 is good
 
F35 as MRFA is the best option they can have, given AMCA will take some time for serial production and to stabilise suply lines.
Other options are strictly no go and time and resources better be invested on MWF and AMCA. Its what we can bank on in case of war. Even few imported F35s will be shot down in early days of war. But for immediate requirement of few top line FGFA F35 is good
Is it the case that F-35 users need to access data held in the US to programme their strike missions? I am not saying that is the case. I am asking if anyone KNOWS that is the case.
 
After potential stealthy SAM hunter, AMCA has potential to engage naval & other surface targets also from stand-off distance.
If we compare some present weapons like AGM-158A JASSM, JSM/NSM, Storm-Shadow/SCALP-EG, Taurus KEPD-350, SOM-J, etc then they're still bigger than IWB, but they can be scaled down.

Below is example of JASSM & JSM with their original dimension compared to 4.2m long IWB:

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But their adjusted size variants are being integrated in F-35. Similar weapons can be developed for AMCA too.

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Continuing the chain of posts for weapons in AMCA's IWB which is officially quoted 4.2m X 2.2m,
After observing the designs of all BVR-AAMs made globally, and intention of F-35 & J-35 to increase their IWB capacity to 6 AAMs, I had shown by diagrams that only 4 big-fin Astr-1/2 AAMs can fit in IWB but,
6 staggered Astr-2 short-fin AAMs (like AIM-120-D in F-22),
or 6 modified Astr-3 SFDR,
or 8 folding-fin Astr-2 AAMs can fit in (like Chinese PL-15).

I took the CAD of Astr-2 big-fin by artist "Akela freedom" & edited in Paint to match short-fin version made by artist "Kuntal Biswas" which is also identical to AIM-120-D. So the forward fixed fin has been shortened & shifted forward & rear fin leading edge more swept back, that's all, simple quick edit.

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Now we can see the comparison more clear & precise, 4 & 6 big-fin AAMs vs 6 short-fin AAMs in the outine of official dimension of IWB. Unfortunately an updated CAD is not released yet by any artist or DoD.

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I did this few weeks back but I waited for Aero-India, hoping they would officially increase the IWB capacity & showcase, but didn't happen. But this is not an up-hill task & can be done easily till IOC jet.

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There is no separator wall in the IWB. 1 door panel slightly overlaps on the panel of other side door, means both doors have to open full to drop any weapon, exposing full IWB. ⚠️🚨
I hope this gets corrected in IOC jet.
 
Dear Srinivas, hope you're doing well.
Do you understand basic aerodynamics. terms, concepts like TWR, aerodynamic shadow, compressor stall, profile of a fighter, basic components of aircraft, wing design, fuselage design, stealth geometry, irrespective of manned or unmanned? If not then feel free to ask.
> HAL is just a maker, not designer.
> AI Wingman is a great idea globally. But the current CATS Warrior & all identical UAVs globally are inappropriate design for a Wingman. Lets recall how badly J-36 has been criticized for top intake.
Only non-agile jets ike F-117, B-2, B-21 have intakes on top, not agile fighters. Wingman means a jet which flies along leader in group. So Wingman UCAV is supposed to fly with manned supersonic, supercruising fighter & hence be an agile unmanned fighter itself. It needs to have same or identical range, endurance, agility, TWR, etc. If a member cant stay in group then how can it be called group member?
We don't mix mileage cars/bikes with racing ones. We don't mix horses with donkeys.
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Why not make manned versions of these UCAVs?
Manned fighter Vs UCAV, only difference is of pilot & components required by pilot. Removing pilot doesn't reduce threats to aircraft. 🚨 ⚠️
Do you think just 2 AAMs are sufficient?
If we fit 6 AAMs inside AMCA, a group of 6 AMCAs means 36 AAMs which is equal to 18 CATS Warriors. If we assign 3 CATS Warrior to 1 AMCA then the group has 6+2+2+2=12 AAMs, so ONE group of 6 AMCAs is equal to 3 groups of AMCA-CATS MUMT.
After 2 AAMs are depleted these UCAVs will be helpless.🚨☠️



All UAV makers globally are thinking same thing that these UCAVs will wreak havoc. Both side of borders wil have UCAVs. What so different about us when we are lagging behind all of them?


Did you watch news? ACM A.P. Singh said he has lost confidence in HAL & you wanna have confidence in HAL prematurely?


I as a tax paying citizen also have same expectations, but i hope till then we won't run into major war.


You do know Loyal wing man is a concept design and HAL is validating technology.

Your criticism on the concept is premature considering that there is an upgraded version being planned.

Yes both sides have UAV’s but one side is already ahead with concept, design and validation than the other.

What HAL is doing is building the concept step by step and so far they are successful.

Regarding Airchief’s comments, I will leave it to the internal politics and the HAL track record.
 
You do know Loyal wing man is a concept design and HAL is validating technology.

Your criticism on the concept is premature considering that there is an upgraded version being planned.

Yes both sides have UAV’s but one side is already ahead with concept, design and validation than the other.

What HAL is doing is building the concept step by step and so far they are successful.

Regarding Airchief’s comments, I will leave it to the internal politics and the HAL track record.

> My criticism is not about the black prototype/TD bcoz it wil expllore new things like V-tail, etc, but the final product exhibited earlier & other identical models globally shown in the collage, based on +ve points of lower RCS, low cost, etc but also -ve points of inter-dependability, less payload, less agility, less everything. Animations, infographics, strategy descriptions are 1-sided, not realistic & the West can change it any time.

> HAL is just manufacturer, not designer. HAL makes & rolls out everything hence people mention HAL for wrong reason when they should mention ADA for design. But ADA & HAL have monopoly now which will end if private firms step in. Then nobody will worship them amidst cut-throat competition.

> "Action speaks more than words". Multiple Chiefs & retired personel are criticizing since years. Hence it is not internal politics b/w IAF Vs HAL. HAL needs to expand facilities & assembly lines.
 
we did a mistake with LCA-Tejas...by relying soley on american engines....should have created another prototype with russian engines...same goes for AMCA
It is very hard to make some people understand that. Some people glorify Su-30MKI using AL-31 engines but criticize AL-31 as bad quality engine for R&D. If we used AL-31/41, F-100/110, we would have flown a stealthy 1-engine AMWF & 2-engine Flanker class prototype long back & ready for induction by now. MRFA tender would not exist. 🤷‍♂️
 
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It is very hard to make some people understand that. Some people glorify Su-30MKI using AL-31 engines but criticize AL-31 as bad quality engine for R&D. If we used AL-31/41, F-100/110, we would have flown a stealthy 1-engine AMWF & 2-engine Flanker class prototype long back & ready for induction by now.
its not like they dont know whats happening..everybody knows.....its more about import lobby and compromised bureaucrats
 
its not like they dont know whats happening..everybody knows.....its more about import lobby and compromised bureaucrats
When we look at DRDO & PSU thread we see they're coming up with numerous tech, products, components. Some of them are latest but certain tech/products overall are obsolete.
Everywhere, school/college, Govt./Pvt. sector, human nature, potential is same, some people are visionary, proactive, hard-working, smart, some are just typical babu types.
But monopoly & over-optimism on peace & stability results in relaxed, ignorant, arrogant system.
Since decades, we didn't have a war or invasion & loss of territory big enough. But centuries after centuries, millenniums after millenniums, we have lost huge territories which have become countries. So everybody knows everything but still overall system/outcome is relaxed. 🏖️⛱️🐌
 
we did a mistake with LCA-Tejas...by relying soley on american engines....should have created another prototype with russian engines...same goes for AMCA
on good ol' D F I it was mentioned that very first 'technical demonstrators', that are now catching dust in HAL's museum in Bangalore, either KH2001 or KH2002, one of them was actually ground-tested and air intakes certified with russian RD-33 as an alternative engine in hand IF unkil sam doesn't let us have F404 - but it's all tales from those era when Kaveri was already being hailed as mainstay for LCA

eventually US of A allowed F404 to us and that thing of perhaps putting RD-33 on LCA was shut off 🤷‍♂️ if only it wasn't...we could've perhaps gotten a good fleet of Tejas flying with that engine, no matter how questionable its performance be
 
its not like they dont know whats happening..everybody knows.....its more about import lobby and compromised bureaucrats
Its most likely due to the poor experience with the russian engines, which IAF have been using since long time. US/European designed and manufactured jet engines are probably more reliable and technologically more advanced than Russian ones, political hurdles notwithstanding.
 
on good ol' D F I it was mentioned that very first 'technical demonstrators', that are now catching dust in HAL's museum in Bangalore, either KH2001 or KH2002, one of them was actually ground-tested and air intakes certified with russian RD-33 as an alternative engine in hand IF unkil sam doesn't let us have F404 - but it's all tales from those era when Kaveri was already being hailed as mainstay for LCA

eventually US of A allowed F404 to us and that thing of perhaps putting RD-33 on LCA was shut off 🤷‍♂️ if only it wasn't...we could've perhaps gotten a good fleet of Tejas flying with that engine, no matter how questionable its performance be
The thrust won't be a problem but have to deal with more maintenance, less life cycle and less fuel efficiency.
But rd33mk can be feasible with minor modifications to fit in Tejas airframe and weight being almost same will means no COG issues.
But already too late.
The case is only there If more delay happens and iaf and gov loose all trust in GE and USA
 

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