AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

[vampyrbladez]

View: https://x.com/AdithyaKM_/status/1890398879532609920/photo/1

 

[AbRaj]

F35 as MRFA is the best option they can have, given AMCA will take some time for serial production and to stabilise suply lines.
Other options are strictly no go and time and resources better be invested on MWF and AMCA. Its what we can bank on in case of war. Even few imported F35s will be shot down in early days of war. But for immediate requirement of few top line FGFA F35 is good

 

[Spitfire IX]

F35 as MRFA is the best option they can have, given AMCA will take some time for serial production and to stabilise suply lines.
Other options are strictly no go and time and resources better be invested on MWF and AMCA. Its what we can bank on in case of war. Even few imported F35s will be shot down in early days of war. But for immediate requirement of few top line FGFA F35 is good

Is it the case that F-35 users need to access data held in the US to programme their strike missions? I am not saying that is the case. I am asking if anyone KNOWS that is the case.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

After potential stealthy SAM hunter, AMCA has potential to engage naval & other surface targets also from stand-off distance.
If we compare some present weapons like AGM-158A JASSM, JSM/NSM, Storm-Shadow/SCALP-EG, Taurus KEPD-350, SOM-J, etc then they're still bigger than IWB, but they can be scaled down.

Below is example of JASSM & JSM with their original dimension compared to 4.2m long IWB:

View attachment 23132

But their adjusted size variants are being integrated in F-35. Similar weapons can be developed for AMCA too.

View attachment 23133
View attachment 23134

Continuing the chain of posts for weapons in AMCA's IWB which is officially quoted 4.2m X 2.2m,
After observing the designs of all BVR-AAMs made globally, and intention of F-35 & J-35 to increase their IWB capacity to 6 AAMs, I had shown by diagrams that only 4 big-fin Astr-1/2 AAMs can fit in IWB but,
6 staggered Astr-2 short-fin AAMs (like AIM-120-D in F-22),
or 6 modified Astr-3 SFDR,
or 8 folding-fin Astr-2 AAMs can fit in (like Chinese PL-15).

I took the CAD of Astr-2 big-fin by artist "Akela freedom" & edited in Paint to match short-fin version made by artist "Kuntal Biswas" which is also identical to AIM-120-D. So the forward fixed fin has been shortened & shifted forward & rear fin leading edge more swept back, that's all, simple quick edit.



Now we can see the comparison more clear & precise, 4 & 6 big-fin AAMs vs 6 short-fin AAMs in the outine of official dimension of IWB. Unfortunately an updated CAD is not released yet by any artist or DoD.



I did this few weeks back but I waited for Aero-India, hoping they would officially increase the IWB capacity & showcase, but didn't happen. But this is not an up-hill task & can be done easily till IOC jet.


There is no separator wall in the IWB. 1 door panel slightly overlaps on the panel of other side door, means both doors have to open full to drop any weapon, exposing full IWB.
I hope this gets corrected in IOC jet.

 

[Srinivas]

Dear Srinivas, hope you're doing well.
Do you understand basic aerodynamics. terms, concepts like TWR, aerodynamic shadow, compressor stall, profile of a fighter, basic components of aircraft, wing design, fuselage design, stealth geometry, irrespective of manned or unmanned? If not then feel free to ask.
> HAL is just a maker, not designer.
> AI Wingman is a great idea globally. But the current CATS Warrior & all identical UAVs globally are inappropriate design for a Wingman. Lets recall how badly J-36 has been criticized for top intake.
Only non-agile jets ike F-117, B-2, B-21 have intakes on top, not agile fighters. Wingman means a jet which flies along leader in group. So Wingman UCAV is supposed to fly with manned supersonic, supercruising fighter & hence be an agile unmanned fighter itself. It needs to have same or identical range, endurance, agility, TWR, etc. If a member cant stay in group then how can it be called group member?
We don't mix mileage cars/bikes with racing ones. We don't mix horses with donkeys.
View attachment 25032
Why not make manned versions of these UCAVs?
Manned fighter Vs UCAV, only difference is of pilot & components required by pilot. Removing pilot doesn't reduce threats to aircraft.
Do you think just 2 AAMs are sufficient? If we fit 6 AAMs inside AMCA, a group of 6 AMCAs means 36 AAMs which is equal to 18 CATS Warriors. If we assign 3 CATS Warrior to 1 AMCA then the group has 6+2+2+2=12 AAMs, so ONE group of 6 AMCAs is equal to 3 groups of AMCA-CATS MUMT.
After 2 AAMs are depleted these UCAVs will be helpless.


All UAV makers globally are thinking same thing that these UCAVs will wreak havoc. Both side of borders wil have UCAVs. What so different about us when we are lagging behind all of them?


Did you watch news? ACM A.P. Singh said he has lost confidence in HAL & you wanna have confidence in HAL prematurely?


I as a tax paying citizen also have same expectations, but i hope till then we won't run into major war.

You do know Loyal wing man is a concept design and HAL is validating technology.

Your criticism on the concept is premature considering that there is an upgraded version being planned.

Yes both sides have UAV’s but one side is already ahead with concept, design and validation than the other.

What HAL is doing is building the concept step by step and so far they are successful.

Regarding Airchief’s comments, I will leave it to the internal politics and the HAL track record.

 

[Punisher]

we did a mistake with LCA-Tejas...by relying soley on american engines....should have created another prototype with russian engines...same goes for AMCA

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

You do know Loyal wing man is a concept design and HAL is validating technology.

Your criticism on the concept is premature considering that there is an upgraded version being planned.

Yes both sides have UAV’s but one side is already ahead with concept, design and validation than the other.

What HAL is doing is building the concept step by step and so far they are successful.

Regarding Airchief’s comments, I will leave it to the internal politics and the HAL track record.

> My criticism is not about the black prototype/TD bcoz it wil expllore new things like V-tail, etc, but the final product exhibited earlier & other identical models globally shown in the collage, based on +ve points of lower RCS, low cost, etc but also -ve points of inter-dependability, less payload, less agility, less everything. Animations, infographics, strategy descriptions are 1-sided, not realistic & the West can change it any time.

> HAL is just manufacturer, not designer. HAL makes & rolls out everything hence people mention HAL for wrong reason when they should mention ADA for design. But ADA & HAL have monopoly now which will end if private firms step in. Then nobody will worship them amidst cut-throat competition.

> "Action speaks more than words". Multiple Chiefs & retired personel are criticizing since years. Hence it is not internal politics b/w IAF Vs HAL. HAL needs to expand facilities & assembly lines.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

we did a mistake with LCA-Tejas...by relying soley on american engines....should have created another prototype with russian engines...same goes for AMCA

It is very hard to make some people understand that. Some people glorify Su-30MKI using AL-31 engines but criticize AL-31 as bad quality engine for R&D. If we used AL-31/41, F-100/110, we would have flown a stealthy 1-engine AMWF & 2-engine Flanker class prototype long back & ready for induction by now. MRFA tender would not exist.

 

[Punisher]

It is very hard to make some people understand that. Some people glorify Su-30MKI using AL-31 engines but criticize AL-31 as bad quality engine for R&D. If we used AL-31/41, F-100/110, we would have flown a stealthy 1-engine AMWF & 2-engine Flanker class prototype long back & ready for induction by now.

its not like they dont know whats happening..everybody knows.....its more about import lobby and compromised bureaucrats

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

its not like they dont know whats happening..everybody knows.....its more about import lobby and compromised bureaucrats

When we look at DRDO & PSU thread we see they're coming up with numerous tech, products, components. Some of them are latest but certain tech/products overall are obsolete.
Everywhere, school/college, Govt./Pvt. sector, human nature, potential is same, some people are visionary, proactive, hard-working, smart, some are just typical babu types.
But monopoly & over-optimism on peace & stability results in relaxed, ignorant, arrogant system.
Since decades, we didn't have a war or invasion & loss of territory big enough. But centuries after centuries, millenniums after millenniums, we have lost huge territories which have become countries. So everybody knows everything but still overall system/outcome is relaxed.

 

[johny_baba]

we did a mistake with LCA-Tejas...by relying soley on american engines....should have created another prototype with russian engines...same goes for AMCA

on good ol' D F I it was mentioned that very first 'technical demonstrators', that are now catching dust in HAL's museum in Bangalore, either KH2001 or KH2002, one of them was actually ground-tested and air intakes certified with russian RD-33 as an alternative engine in hand IF unkil sam doesn't let us have F404 - but it's all tales from those era when Kaveri was already being hailed as mainstay for LCA

eventually US of A allowed F404 to us and that thing of perhaps putting RD-33 on LCA was shut off if only it wasn't...we could've perhaps gotten a good fleet of Tejas flying with that engine, no matter how questionable its performance be

 

[AbRaj]

its not like they dont know whats happening..everybody knows.....its more about import lobby and compromised bureaucrats

Its most likely due to the poor experience with the russian engines, which IAF have been using since long time. US/European designed and manufactured jet engines are probably more reliable and technologically more advanced than Russian ones, political hurdles notwithstanding.

 

[randombully]

on good ol' D F I it was mentioned that very first 'technical demonstrators', that are now catching dust in HAL's museum in Bangalore, either KH2001 or KH2002, one of them was actually ground-tested and air intakes certified with russian RD-33 as an alternative engine in hand IF unkil sam doesn't let us have F404 - but it's all tales from those era when Kaveri was already being hailed as mainstay for LCA

eventually US of A allowed F404 to us and that thing of perhaps putting RD-33 on LCA was shut off if only it wasn't...we could've perhaps gotten a good fleet of Tejas flying with that engine, no matter how questionable its performance be

The thrust won't be a problem but have to deal with more maintenance, less life cycle and less fuel efficiency.
But rd33mk can be feasible with minor modifications to fit in Tejas airframe and weight being almost same will means no COG issues.
But already too late.
The case is only there If more delay happens and iaf and gov loose all trust in GE and USA

 

[FalconSlayers]

View: https://x.com/Varun55484761/status/1891003756893847718

 

[jaijaganath]

View: https://x.com/Varun55484761/status/1891003756893847718

Now where is AD and his claim that we can roll out amca within next 18 months most of the lrus and sub-systems are ready .........
Metal cutting has not begun yet

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

View: https://x.com/Varun55484761/status/1891003756893847718

So what was the bulkhead metal cutting in 2022?



Are they going to update for metal cutting of each part separtely?

 

[randombully]

Now where is AD and his claim that we can roll out amca within next 18 months most of the lrus and sub-systems are ready .........
Metal cutting has not begun yet

The design tweak is for more payload.
The amca rolled in next 18 months will not come with this tweak.
With that Said, is the 50ton press for large single peice bulk head ready?
Or is the prototype intended to use other older methods of assembling multiple parts to form a bulkhead of amca?

 

[jaijaganath]

The design tweak is for more payload.
The amca rolled in next 18 months will not come with this tweak.
With that Said, is the 50ton press for large single peice bulk head ready?
Or is the prototype intended to use other older methods of assembling multiple parts to form a bulkhead of amca?

Ig they are opting for 2nd option
Coz of u remember they posted a pic of 1/4 bulkhead in poster or some sort of design page

Anyways amca is very far away from realisation hope we don't import any other 5th gen aircraft meanwhile

 

[Corvus Splendens]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp0CxZlTWlI

 

[vampyrbladez]

View: https://x.com/BlackIAdder/status/1891032553315779005