Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[randombully]

If you're addressing "that guy" quote him or tag him.

I literally "replied" to him.
Well here's the quote.

All govt has to do is order 72 more rafales club them with Navy's 26 to that's 98 jets. Enough for rafale production line in India.

IAF is clear it wants rafale and it wants them away from hal.

 

[Azaad]

They reduce rcs all around.
Why did you think, engines are hidden behind vertical and horizontal tail, instead of extending beyond tail like in su30 and f15.

The Su-57 engines are visible . Neither is the AL-41 been designed for stealth nor do they have serrated edges in the slot containing the engine mounting or do they have serpentine intakes . They've now come up with serrated edges for the Stage 2 Su-57 powered by the AL-51 which are claimed to be 5th Gen TFs.

Why did you think 5th gen aircrafts have serrated panels all around?

Well , show them to me on the Stage 1 Su-57 .

Manufactures never claimed their fighters to be "front stealth focus" too.

LM does. The Chinese never release any data on their FAs. Neither does Russia , though their design philosophy is different when designing 5th Gen FA.

I don't need to go into other elements.
Just go see the pics if these jets and you will find at every place there are attempts to not make any 90° angles.
Every surface covered in ram.
Every antenna no matter where it place is conformal inside the jet, no sticking about antenna.
Just because front of the aircraft is the most stealthy out of all, doesn't mean other areas are not stealth optimised.

The very fact that they've vertical stabilizers means it's not all aspect stealth. Plus the J-20 has canards. Yes all the OEMs have made their attempts to render their products stealthy but there have been trade offs given mission objectives.

This could also be a case of iterative improvements where an aspect having been introduced is fully realised in successive iterations.

In future 6th, 7th blah blah gen, back where engine is will be still be least stealthy related to front of jet, the sides will be on par with front, the bottom and top will be relatively less stealthy compared to front.
But entire jet will be stealthy.

That's what the 6th Gen FA China's just introduced seems to have done. Early days yet . We don't know how their FAs will evolve or whether these designs will feature as it is with refinements in their final avatar. We'd have to wait & watch. Speaking of which NGAD is also without a vertical stabilizer or at least those are the reports in the media.

 

[randombully]

The Su-57 engines are visible . Neither is the AL-41 been designed for stealth nor do they have serrated edges in the slot containing the engine mounting or do they have serpentine intakes . They've now come up with serrated edges for the Stage 2 Su-57 powered by the AL-51 which are claimed to be 5th Gen TFs

Su 57 is not a good example of 5th gen
F35 is , f22(stealth wise) is.

As I said before "it's barely" a stealth jet
And no it's engines are not exposed too.
Exposed engine ones are "prototype"
And you can also see how it's engines are hidden by vertical and horixontal tail.

 

[randombully]

Well , show them to me on the Stage 1 Su-57 .

Same as previous reply .
And why do also bring the "worst stealth"( still a stealth jet) jet as an example.
Pretty sure I mentioned "5th gen", not "su57".
And as you can see in the pic of production varient i sent the alf41 engine in it does have serratednozzels.

 

[Azaad]

Not as good as Pentagon, but I can still brief it's general capabilities to your ignorant ass with all the available public data I have.I still have offer to tell you the advantages it's hybrid fly by optics and fly by wire.There's no comparison of it with your stupid and false info.Just because your brain finds it hard to accept just how much public info is available and how of its capabilities can be roughly guessed.

I don't need your briefings . Neither am interested in random RCS readings by amateurs. There are plenty of those idle online who make such readings & others who'd come up with opposite readings & possibly 100x people interested in these details. They aren't credible sources to quote in a debate. They're good to read & file it in the back of your head.


Thank you very much. There are better sources I can get it from gandu ka baccha. Besides why would you offer to brief me when I clearly mentioned that prospective customers get a classified briefing from LM once they've been cleared by Pentagon. There are also levels to these classified briefings . Oh and I forgot to mention these have to be cleared by the Congress.

 

[randombully]

The very fact that they've vertical stabilizers means it's not all aspect stealth. Plus the J-20 has canards. Yes all the OEMs have made their attempts to render their products stealthy but there have been trade offs given mission objectives.

This could also be a case of iterative improvements where an aspect having been introduced is fully realised in successive iterations.

The lack of vertical tail will mean "better stealth" in that area not "all aspect stealth".
J20 from "all angles"is magnitudes stealthier than any non stealth jet.
It's designed to reduce rcs in "all angles"

So stop modifying the definition of "all aspects".
Having a tail less flying delta wing being relatively more stealthier, doesn't mean one with slanted vertical tail is not stealth.

 

[Azaad]

Just stupid up mf.

But I never met your mother to be called MF

You said no russian jet is omni role and "su 57" may be.

I still stand by my statement that the Su-57 is omni role coz that's the natural progression of FAs the world over. Other than that there's the Su-30 M2 which owes its existence to the massive engineering the Russians undertook which we financed for the MKI & the latest Su-35S which is nothing but a more advanced iteration of the Su-30 itself an advanced iteration of the Su-27.

Neither the Su-30 nor the Su-27 in its original form were omni role. In fact none of the FAs designed by the Soviets in the 1980s were around the time the Rafales , Eurofighters & Gripen were conceived.

Eventually everyone jumped on to the bandwagon.

You didn't even knew what omni role meant, just did Google search and went on with how omni can perform in multiple modes in same mission.
Like that's the standard for any decent fighter.

No I didn't. I was born yesterday & just appeared online today.

 

[randombully]

That's what the 6th Gen FA China's just introduced seems to have done

No, from the back where their engines their rcs will still higher relative to front, side, top, down .
Their ir signature will also by highesr there.

 

[randombully]

others who'd come up with opposite readings &

Such as?
Find me any rcs simulation which has opposite reading?
Because all I've seen came to almost similar no.

 

[randombully]

I still stand by my statement that the Su-57 is omni role coz that's the natural progression of FAs the world over. Other than that there's the Su-30 M2 which owes its existence to the massive engineering the Russians undertook which we financed for the MKI & the latest Su-35S which is nothing but a more advanced iteration of the Su-30 itself an advanced iteration of the Su-27.

If you go back in the thread you will also find your words "su35 is multirole not omni role"
And looks like you couldn't stand by your false words "no russian jet is omni role" su 57 may be.

 

[randombully]

No I didn't. I was born yesterday & just appeared online today.

All the lies you said Would be less embarrassing if you were actually born yesterday.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

Mods clean up the thread.

 

[Azaad]

Not same generation=/= not same capabilities.
I'd you think rafale provides same capabilities as su57, your fucking retarded.
I don't even wanna know how you think these ways.

Actually the Rafale & the Su-30 do belong to the same generation. Check out the development path of the Rafales. The first Rafales to be inducted were the Rafale M.

When the Rafale C was inducted it had only Air to Air capabilities no AESA radar etc. That came through with successive upgrade packages with the prefix F . Hence F1 , F2 , F3 & so on . Within these upgrade packages specific capabilities were addressed .

Hence the version we got was the F3R. They've planned out these packages to F7 with R6 to come at the end of the 2030s or early 2040s.

The Russians usually spin it off into a new FA series. All their Su-30 family ( Su-33 , Su-34 , Su-35 , Su-37 ) is essentially derived from Su-27 . That's the way they approach this subject.

 

[randombully]

Actually the Rafale & the Su-30 do belong to the same generation. Check out the development path of the Rafales. The first Rafales to be inducted were the Rafale M.

When the Rafale C was inducted it had only Air to Air capabilities no AESA radar etc. That came through with successive upgrade packages with the prefix F . Hence F1 , F2 , F3 & so on . Within these upgrade packages specific capabilities were addressed .

Hence the version we got was the F3R. They've planned out these packages to F7 with R6 to come at the end of the 2030s or early 2040s.

The Russians usually spin it off into a new FA series. All their Su-30 family ( Su-33 , Su-34 , Su-35 , Su-37 ) is essentially derived from Su-27 . That's the way they approach this subject.

Su 30?
30?

 

[randombully]

Actually the Rafale & the Su-30 do belong to the same generation. Check out the development path of the Rafales. The first Rafales to be inducted were the Rafale M.

When the Rafale C was inducted it had only Air to Air capabilities no AESA radar etc. That came through with successive upgrade packages with the prefix F . Hence F1 , F2 , F3 & so on . Within these upgrade packages specific capabilities were addressed .

Hence the version we got was the F3R. They've planned out these packages to F7 with R6 to come at the end of the 2030s or early 2040s.

The Russians usually spin it off into a new FA series. All their Su-30 family ( Su-33 , Su-34 , Su-35 , Su-37 ) is essentially derived from Su-27 . That's the way they approach this subject.

All rafale series have same airframe, with upgraded avionics.
Su57( you wrote su37), is a different design all together.
Just how does your brain work to come to these conclusions?
And russian don't Just spin it off, they also makes changes in airframe, that's why they all them new jet.
And avionics upgrade happen in their jets too.
The latest su35 is more advance avionics wise then early su35's.

 

[Azaad]

Go read your words in this same thread.
You called su57 "4.5 gen" multiple times.

Yes I still maintain my stance. The Su-57 Stage 1 to be precise is possibly the best 4.5 Gen ++ / 4.75 Gen + FA , quasi 5th Gen FA there is in the world today.

What the Su-57 Stage 2 will be , we've to wait & see.

Where was your proof?

My categorisation was based on the normal parameters used to classify a 5th Gen FA namely stealth characteristics like surface shaping , RAM coating , RAS , super cruise , advanced avionics , sensor fusion , LPI radar , IWB etc .

However each & every FA in this category don't qualify for that term except F-22. Having got that out of the way , F-35 qualifies even if it doesn't have Super Cruise. J-20 probably does in spite of its canards though it's not yet been mapped for its RCS .

Su-57 by the Russians own admission doesn't, as they didn't compromise on its aerodynamic features to accomodate stealth features.

You said rafale struggled against f35, but will not against j20 because it's chinese.

The Rafales will definitely struggle against the F-35 , IMO. However I never mentioned the Rafales will score against the J-20 . Please quote me where did I say it will not struggle against the J-20.

I said the IAF doesn't consider either the J-20 or the Su-57 stealthy FAs. The IAF has gone on record to state the J-20 isn't stealth on multiple occasions. However they haven't been as vocal about the Su-57.

I've also said if there has been any changes in their thought process the IAF certainly hasn't voiced it .

What you didn't say was "any proof or reasonable explanation why j20 will be as good as f35 or good enough that rafale will struggle against it too?
You didn't ask proof, you denied it because it was "chinese".

That's your reading of it & this is the problem with you . You don't read the entire post thoroughly , you have pre conceived notions & then you cherry pick sentences out of context you think fit your pre conceived notions best .

If you're claiming the J-20 is as good as the F-35 that's your view not mine. The J-20 was designed as an analogue to the F-22. It's hardly as stealthy as the F-22 by any metric.

Why didn't you offer proof then ?

 

[Azaad]

Which commentators?
Any links?
Posts?

It's funny how you ask me for evidence but provide none yourself. Check out the LM website for their definition of stealth or VLO vis a vis the F-22 or the F-35.

Because all the experienced commentators I saw are saying.
" mumt"
"DEW"
" system of systems"
" unmanned AI driven jets"
" ACE"

Would that be for 5th Gen or 6th Gen ?

Some "experienced" commentators believe all these upgrades are applicable In 5th gen to and 5th gen can be upgraded to 6th gen( same airframe)

Doesn't look like it . Can the F-22 be upgraded to 6th Gen or the F-35 ? In that case what's the NGAD program all about or the F/A-XX program all about ?

While other critique by saying power generation and Architecture that is not designed to act as a completely integrated part of a larger system made up of many other planss can be limits that will 5th gen from "completely" upgrading into 6th gen (nothing about lack of all aspects stealth)

If 4.5th Gen FAs are coming up with CCAs why wouldn't 5th Gen not have CCAs ? Is that a qualifier. It's subjective. In any case with practically every AF coming up with CCAs to team up with their primary FAs be it 4th or 5th Gen , I doubt this'd be a disqualifier.

Go and tell those experienced commentators about 5th gen not having all aspect stealth but being front focused, they will laugh at your retarded ass.

Well then how would you define 6th Gen ?

 

[Azaad]

My comment was opposition again throwing allegations of corruption if direct g2g happened.
Not about what action goi takes.

That's what the opposition is supposed to do . To keep the government on its toes. It's for the government to be firm in its decision not to be cowed by needless opposition & their tactics be it allegations or smear campaigns or anything thrown their way.

 

[Azaad]

your stupidity and overconfidence causes you put out these "balantly false" statements without any knowledge.
Like it works in political discussion, ideological, geopolitical

My "Stupidity & over confidence" ? You were the one who negated the classified briefing GoI & it's various bodies were supposed to receive from DoD & LM offering to brief them instead.

But not in factual ones like capabilities of jets and systems.

So you mean you're the last word on stealth the various capabilities of the F-35 , J-20 , Su-57 etc . That if anyone has an alternative opinion he's either lying or he's ignorant.

Not abusive it's the truth.
unlike the lie about antennas In EODAS, I still crack at that.

I wonder if it was more hilarious than your offering to brief the GoI on the F-35.

 

[randombully]

Yes I still maintain my stance. The Su-57 Stage 1 to be precise is possibly the best 4.5 Gen ++ / 4.75 Gen + FA , quasi 5th Gen FA there is in the world today.

What the Su-57 Stage 2 will be , we've to wait & see

The stage 2 won't make it more stealthy.
It will give it supercruise ability and better twr
As shown I'm the picture of production model, al41 engine of stage 1 has serrated nozzles.
So once again your stance is wrong