AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

[Blood+]

Arrree...this short of a post!? Everything's all right!?
I was hoping for long ahh article with diagrams, confidential schematics and what not

I'd love to but when it comes to anything that flies, I'm less than a novice, I'm afraid.

 

[Bleh]

That, J-20 mass production, coupled with define random news tidbits is what made me think Su-57 limited induction possible.

False alarm...


View: https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/status/1860895201113284678

 

[Corvus Splendens]

False alarm...


View: https://twitter.com/alpha_defense/status/1860895201113284678

Block 70/72 F-16s scared them off. Otherwise they heavily outclass the Moroccans on numbers alone.

 

[Screambowl]

Breakthrough technology makes radars go blind, to boost India’s national security

In a major boost to India’s defence capabilities, the Indian Institute of Technology (IIT)-Kanpur has developed a path-breaking stealth technology called Anālakṣhya Metamaterial Surface Cloaking System (AMSCS). The advanced technology makes nearby radars go blind by virtually vanishing objects...

www.wionews.com

 

[Bleh]

Block 70/72 F-16s scared them off. Otherwise they heavily outclass the Moroccans on numbers alone.

What do those two have to fight over?

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

We should focus mostly on AMCA on its thread.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

We should focus mostly on AMCA on its thread.

I hear you like autocad and scale models. Otherwise there is nothing to discuss before prototype fab. Not with this budget.

But here's a brainlet discussion as bonus

 

[randombully]

I hear you like autocad and scale models. Otherwise there is nothing to discuss before prototype fab. Not with this budget.
View attachment 16767
But here's a brainlet discussion as bonus
View attachment 16768

Will amca have side weapons bay? Or only central bay?
Can missiles like Astra mk3 fit inside it's weapons bay?

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Will amca have side weapons bay? Or only central bay?
Can missiles like Astra mk3 fit inside it's weapons bay?

No space for side bays. Central bay with 4 AAMs, all new Astra missiles are being developed with fin folding and internal bay space in mind. AFAIK not enough depth inside central bay to hang two more AAMs from the bay doors. But I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

 

[why so serious?]

Scrape this project and get decent 5ht gen from external parties with made in India - this would save time, cost and bring peace

Agreed , and start praying for this

 

[Ayan Barat]

But I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

I don't want to see you happy today

 

[Bleh]

Will amca have side weapons bay? Or only central bay?
Can missiles like Astra mk3 fit inside it's weapons bay?

No space for side bays. Central bay with 4 AAMs, all new Astra missiles are being developed with fin folding and internal bay space in mind. AFAIK not enough depth inside central bay to hang two more AAMs from the bay doors. But I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

There was an intermediate model with dide-bays & another with 5 BVR internal-bay which had the central partition removed.

I think it was asked for by IAF only, as ADA did away with the side bays & enlarged the inner one, then split it into 2, as in present iteration.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

I hear you like autocad and scale models. Otherwise there is nothing to discuss before prototype fab. Not with this budget.
View attachment 16767
But here's a brainlet discussion as bonus
View attachment 16768

1) We should discuss anything in its respective thread, otherwise it deteriorates the quality of forum.
2) Yes, being a techie i like CAD. I wish if i could share my ideas better with a CAD design like some guys are already doing online, but unfortunately i don't have a priority to buy a new costly computer just to make CAD renders.
3) W.r.t. AMCA, apart from politics, finance, there are tons of things which can be discussed if someone is interested in basics of aircraft components & design aspects superficially also. On a casual chat site nobody has to be a techie, just a little homework - open Google images, enter "aircraft cutaway diagram", check the labeled diagrams, that's it.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

I don't get all the hate for AMCA development... It seems like our methodology was proven to be better than Pakistan's who rushed in a bunch of unprepared Jf-17s to fill in numbers, 130 Block 1s no BVR etc. & now half of their fleet is barely combat capable 3-legged cheetahs at half their service life already gone
Compared to that, we have 32 FOC standard aircrafts with more trainers flowing in & 14 Mark1A lined up. Within another year our Mark1A fleet will become larger than our FOC fleet & by the time their delivery is complete, fully prepared Mark2s will start flowing in.

We do not have a Chinese daddy to R&D the Block 3 for us. Let them cook.

AMCA prototype is too come in 2027, Induction is expected st 2032. That's a long time for Pakistan to get few FC-31s as "indigenously developed jet".

> Nobody hates AMCA development but civil or mil tech, everything has a timeline, too early will be costly, too sluggish will be obsolete. AMCA R&D is sluggish just like LCA.
> We should stop comparing with Pakistan & putting our requirements. It is practically dictating our R&D pace. We should think like global exporter. Pak is the only Islamic nation with nuclear program, while Turkey has Western nukes just deployed but with its own R&D for tanks, UCAVs, fighter jets. So the situation can suddenly change in favor with these nations. Turkey might become nuclear power & Pakistan may cook its own products. These nations can unite against us aso just like in previous millennium.
> If Pak has Chinese daddy then we have French, American, Israeli uncles (chaha, mama, mausa)

> It is fate of of all 4gen globally including our LCA, MWF, TEDBF to be good target practice objects, it is just how tech evoution works.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

I don't want to see you happy today
View attachment 16772

Any plans to hang AAMs from the doors ?

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Will amca have side weapons bay? Or only central bay?
Can missiles like Astra mk3 fit inside it's weapons bay?

We can & should hope that our Dod units will implement SWB.
We can notice certain differences b/w X-35 & F-35, YF-22 & F-22, FC-31 & J-35.
Future weapons will have to be custom designed for IWB/SWB. F-35 & J-35 will be upgraded for 6 AAMs.
I addressed this in past post with 8 pics:

B

Post in thread 'AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft'

Jul 8, 2024

Not a good idea bcoz while moving it is occupying space of IWB in lower corners of IWB & will strike the fins of weapons.

If we trace the locus of the door then it looks similar to that of a stick or ladder sliding down :
View attachment 2019

If we imagine this locus superimposed on IWB shown by ADA then it is clearly not feasible.
View attachment 2025

Not even with folding fin weapons.

Not just that, even if the IWB door width is reduced half resulting in 4 doors total, imagine the tandem IWBs of Su-57 in parallel, then also the doors opening internally will strike the weapons.
I am using edited...

• Bhartiya Sainik

• 

but our ADA/NL/DRDO seem to be rigid rather adaptive, & over-honest in revealing to the world - "See guys, this is going to be final design, don't worry, we won't evolve any H/w aspect of it,not before 2040 with MK2".
Anyways, recently the MTOW increased from 25 to 27 tons, so let's hope that IOC jet would be better than prototype depicted today in statc model & CAD. Otherwise GoI/MoD/DoD will lern leasson very hard way that such over-honesty, rigidity & sluggish R&D could be very bad.

 

[Ayan Barat]

new Astra missiles are being developed

Well we already know how that'll look like because that's exactly what VL-SRSAM is

Any plans to hang AAMs from the doors ?

In the current configuration the space seems too confined to accomodate a third one in each bay. Not to mention the fact that the use of this multi-part opening door further complicates everything.

If they switch to a simpler two part swinging door design then perhaps they can cram one more Astra; atleast theoretically. But here too you'd need a more refined and slicker ejector launcher than the current one

 

[randombully]

Well we already know how that'll look like because that's exactly what VL-SRSAM is

In the current configuration the space seems too confined to accomodate a third one in each bay. Not to mention the fact that the use of this multi-part opening door further complicates everything.

If they switch to a simpler two part swinging door design then perhaps they can cram one more Astra; atleast theoretically. But here too you'd need a more refined and slicker ejector launcher than the current one
View attachment 16786

So why did this partisan exist?

 

[Ayan Barat]

So why did this partisan exist?

Can serve multiple purpose
• As a strengthening structure, you don't want a large unsupported cavity
• It provides a place for the doors to lock-on when they're closed
• To some extent it may even act as an anti-fratricide thing, so if there's a cook-off in one of the missiles then you can theoretically save half your loadout.

F-22, J-20 even Su-57 in its differently designed (F-22 and J-20 both are similar) internal bay has this feature

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Well we already know how that'll look like because that's exactly what VL-SRSAM is

In the current configuration the space seems too confined to accomodate a third one in each bay. Not to mention the fact that the use of this multi-part opening door further complicates everything.

If they switch to a simpler two part swinging door design then perhaps they can cram one more Astra; atleast theoretically. But here too you'd need a more refined and slicker ejector launcher than the current one
View attachment 16786

> The missile needs to be closer to hinge otherwise the rotating momentum of the door will be higher, more effort will be required to open/close the door.
> Also, bcoz the missile has to be punched off, it will add rotating recoil to door.
> Bcoz of these rotating turbulence, the FCS will have to be programmed to keep the plane stable. And sometimes the jet may have to launch while maneuvering, it'll further complicate the separtion.
> Another point is that to launch single weaon the entire bay door should not be opened or it'll momentarily increase RCS during launch. Hence all 5gen jets use bi-fold doors.

So if your diagram is quickly edited as per above points then it'll look like following:


The problem with current AMCA design is that the outer walls are not used for weapons. If we see the limited CAD available made by artists, we can notice the side space allocation for something else.
So it appears that on each side if not 2 then at least 1 BVR-AAM or CCM can easily fit.


If the lower wing root is buldged a bit then 2+2 AAMs can definitely fit.

Something similar to J-20's SWB can also be implemented, which seems to be better than F-22's SWB. The same idea is used in F-35's IFR robe also.


Another option is Su-57 like SWB but for this AMCA's wings may have to be widened.