AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

shade2 said:
Better just export any subsystems of the AMCA or provide tech consultancy to countries wanting to build stealth fighters.

A flying prototype of AMCA should be built and flown, and nice videos must be made about this so as to generate interests in foreign markets.

IAF won't buy AMCA, they are set on F-35 now, so there is no point attempting to build a whole ass fighter that even the parent airforce won't buy, and if they don't it makes foreign sales even more difficult

Which is why subsystem exports + tech consultancy for stealth fighter development.
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IDK if IAF said it doesn't wan't AMCA anymore. I don't think so. ADA doesn't have anything better.
IAF is looking for few squads of something as stopgap for next 10yrs till AMCA gets inducted, that's the public news.
I don't think we can absorb too many F-35 immediately, technically or financially, bcoz its architecture, manufacturing, maintenance is too sophisticated.
And bcoz it is very S/w defined jet, so there is concern about lockable features, strict control, backdoors, etc, integration with other weapons & network.


shade2 said:
Alternatively this project can be cancelled, any IP, designs, documents and sub system prototypes can be sold to private sector.
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AMCA prototype should fly, it'll give enormous data, learning, confidence.
But i think it needs to be pumped up.
Theoretically R&D never stops growing. Some people say that ADA has finalized its MK1/IOC model & working on FOC/MK2 model, but difference is not known clearly.
 
Bhartiya Sainik said:
Some people say that ADA has finalized its MK1/IOC model & working on FOC/MK2 model
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It is too early for ADA to work on FOC / MK2 beyond basic theoretical design. ADA / HAL will be keenly awaiting for LCA-MK2 and CATS Warrior to take to air for the below reasons

# LCA-MK2 has lot of commonality with AMCA w.r.t to LRUs. Any minor glitches found in LRU modules performance can be fine-tuned it before it goes onto AMCA

# CATS warrior is designed for stealth and this will be tested beyond LAB conditions and in Air with a variety of our Radars generating invaluable data which will again help refine AMCA before its first version is assembled

LCA has performed extremely well considering our scientists and designers had no prior data to base its design on. Koreans have access to US vendors and consultants and Turks have full access to EU equivalent unlike us.

The fact that multiple LCA-MK1As are assembled and ready sans the engine even before delivery of first unit to IAF indicates high confidence level of our engineers

Our AESA Radars, A2G & A2A armaments are already amongst best of the best. When LCA-MK2 and AMCA start flying, import route is permanently closed. IAF / MOD know this very well, which is why the terrible hurry and public spectacle by IAF chief to try and get any Foreign OEM to setup a assembly line here in the guise of Aatmanibhar before the route closes completely.

Lets hope Modiji stays firm on buying only Bharatiya platforms in this term. By the next round of elections, we`ll only be slightly behind Amerikan fighterjet eco-system and importing will start to look more and more silly
 
Kattar said:
It is too early for ADA to work on FOC / MK2 beyond basic theoretical design. ADA / HAL will be keenly awaiting for LCA-MK2 and CATS Warrior to take to air for the below reasons

# LCA-MK2 has lot of commonality with AMCA w.r.t to LRUs. Any minor glitches found in LRU modules performance can be fine-tuned it before it goes onto AMCA

# CATS warrior is designed for stealth and this will be tested beyond LAB conditions and in Air with a variety of our Radars generating invaluable data which will again help refine AMCA before its first version is assembled

LCA has performed extremely well considering our scientists and designers had no prior data to base its design on. Koreans have access to US vendors and consultants and Turks have full access to EU equivalent unlike us.

The fact that multiple LCA-MK1As are assembled and ready sans the engine even before delivery of first unit to IAF indicates high confidence level of our engineers

Our AESA Radars, A2G & A2A armaments are already amongst best of the best. When LCA-MK2 and AMCA start flying, import route is permanently closed. IAF / MOD know this very well, which is why the terrible hurry and public spectacle by IAF chief to try and get any Foreign OEM to setup a assembly line here in the guise of Aatmanibhar before the route closes completely.

Lets hope Modiji stays firm on buying only Bharatiya platforms in this term. By the next round of elections, we`ll only be slightly behind Amerikan fighterjet eco-system and importing will start to look more and more silly
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> It is Tejas Mk2, not LCA Mk2. LCA is a stepping stone giving confidence & learning experience, MWF too, but that's all. In future all such jets will be like stones, i mean gap fillers, broomers, moppers, body of spear... natural evolution.🤷‍♂️ A fighter jet needs to be good from inside & outside both.
> We are doing good work on radars, weapons but yet to make custom AAMs, AGMs for AMCA.
> The import route won't be closed until MWF becomes AMWF, TEDBF becomes ATEDBF & some kind of AHCA replaces Su-30MKI. And we need our own engines too.
> We need our own better attack helicopter like Apache after LCH, call it MCH. Drones too.
> IMO, we're 30-40 years behind USA & EU with their 6gen coming up, but our roadmap is just 1 liner.
 
Bhartiya Sainik said:
> IMO, we're 30-40 years behind USA & EU with their 6gen coming up, but our roadmap is just 1 liner.
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This is what you get when you have no long term roadmap and all indigenous developments are majorly science projects for DRDO and employment for DPSU

When you have a strong roadmap and desire, when there is no ez way out ref imports, you get ICBMs and Hypersonics
 
Just over a year sine CCS gave AMCA the go ahead. What tangible progress (not talk of progress) is there in 1 year?

- F414 'make in India'' deal?
- 110kN engine deal?
- who is going to build it?
 
Bleh said:
Fuck all that... Why not pre-roll a prototype with MWF tech & whatever stealth materials we've already achieved?
It won't be a 5.5th gen jet, but can be a 5-th gen twin-engine larger MWF with IWBs.
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We are doing exactly that, stealth airframe +tejas mk2 tech.

and by doing that the timeline for first flight planned for 2028.

The problem is not avionics tech.
But the airframe itself.
We are going solid single peace bulk head, for that we meed 50k+ton forging press.
So we are currently creating that press.
After which that press will create the bulkhead.
 
Tejas Mk2 & AMCA : 8 Private Contenders

Initial efforts to form a Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV) saw limited interest, with only 6-7 companies attending early meetings in 2023. However, following CCS funding approval, 19 companies expressed their willingness to contribute to the AMCA, TEDBF, and Tejas Mk-2 programs.

Team Alpha Defense accessed the Vendor Evaluation Report for manufacturing multiple structural assemblies, including:

  • Front fuselage
  • Centre fuselage
  • Rear fuselage
  • Wings
  • Vertical tails
  • Canards
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The committee set up evaluation criteria and required vendors to provide the following details:

  • Facilities available per ADA requirements
  • Subcontracting allowed up to 30% (foreign collaboration not permitted)
  • Previous projects executed for ADA/DRDO/CSIR/HAL
  • Minimum annual turnover of ₹100 crores (last three years)
  • Expertise in composites, machining, sheet metal, and assembly
  • DG-AQA Certification/AFQMS Approval experience
  • NADCAP-approved special processes
  • Level-2/Level-3 certified technicians for inspections
  • Track record of timely project completion
  • Internal quality standards and procedures
  • Technical and support manpower details
  • Orders under execution or pending projects
To pass the Technical Evaluation, vendors needed a minimum score of 70. Bids from BrahMos Aerospace and BEML were rejected as the Expression of Interest (EoI) was open only to private vendors.
Click to expand...
Tata Advanced Systems Limited topped the evaluation with 96 points. Other companies that cleared the technical evaluation include:

  • L&T – 82 points
  • Aerostructures Manufacturing India Pvt Ltd – 79 points
  • Lakshmi Machine Works Ltd – 76 points
  • Godrej & Boyce Manufacturing Co. Ltd – 75 points
  • Dynamatic Technologies Ltd – 73 points
  • MTAR Technologies Pvt Ltd – 73 points
  • VEM Technologies – 71 points
However, major firms like Mahindra and Alpha Tocol failed to clear the evaluation. Interestingly, several companies scored just 0 or 1 out of 2 in the category of “Customer feedback report for the last three years and timely execution of projects.”
Click to expand...
The committee recommended adopting the CQCCBS (Combined Quality Cum Cost Based System) model. Under this approach, both technical and financial proposals will be weighted, with specific weightage factors assigned based on project complexity during the Request for Proposal (RFP) phase.
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https://alphadefense.in/index.php/2025/03/09/fighter-jet-makers-in-india-evaluation-ada-report/


View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1898589873285759371
 
Spitfire IX said:
I do not recall anything happening when expected in indigenous fighter projects. AMCA Mk2 to be in production around 2045?
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I think it is premature to call JV engine version of AMCA as MK2 version just bcoz of engine. May be 1A or something in decimal. A number jump in version needs more modifications/additions like structural changes, etc.
But BTW, I also wanna point out that 10 years is lot of time to develop things considered very normal today, like HMDS, some custom weapons for IWB, DIRCM, etc whic should be expected from any jet globally inducted in 2030s. So there cannot be any arrogant excuses for ignorance, not after 5-10 years, but starting today.
 
Bhartiya Sainik said:
I think it is premature to call JV engine version of AMCA as MK2 version just bcoz of engine. May be 1A or something in decimal. A number jump in version needs more modifications/additions like structural changes, etc.
But BTW, I also wanna point out that 10 years is lot of time to develop things considered very normal today, like HMDS, some custom weapons for IWB, DIRCM, etc whic should be expected from any jet globally inducted in 2030s. So there cannot be any arrogant excuses for ignorance, not after 5-10 years, but starting today.
Click to expand...
Up to this point the initial version of AMCA has been termed Mk1 and a later, re-engined version Mk2 so I'll stick to that to distinguish between the two, even if Mk2 is not entirely warranted as a description.

If AMCA Mk1 can go into into production 2033/2034 but Mk2 not until 7/8/9 years later, would it not make sense to increase the order for Mk1? 60/80/100 would be a more attractive proposition to a commercial company considering breaking into the fighter assembly business. It would also lower the unit cost of aircraft assembly and allow more tired old fighters to be retired sooner (thinking early Su-30MKI).
 
randombully said:
We are doing exactly that, stealth airframe +tejas mk2 tech.

and by doing that the timeline for first flight planned for 2028.

The problem is not avionics tech.
But the airframe itself.
We are going solid single peace bulk head, for that we meed 50k+ton forging press.
So we are currently creating that press.
After which that press will create the bulkhead.
Click to expand...
You mean we are indigeneosly making one who is doing that ?
 
Spitfire IX said:
Up to this point the initial version of AMCA has been termed Mk1 and a later, re-engined version Mk2 so I'll stick to that to distinguish between the two, even if Mk2 is not entirely warranted as a description.
Click to expand...
Any official source on AMCA Mk2?

Spitfire IX said:
If AMCA Mk1 can go into into production 2033/2034 but Mk2 not until 7/8/9 years later, would it not make sense to increase the order for Mk1? 60/80/100 would be a more attractive proposition to a commercial company considering breaking into the fighter assembly business. It would also lower the unit cost of aircraft assembly and allow more tired old fighters to be retired sooner (thinking early Su-30MKI).
Click to expand...
I would put it this way - The F414 version should be produced till JVE (JV Engine) version is ready for production.
Yeah our old jets are very tired :hot::LOL:
 
Azaad said:
DKS the drunkard shoving himself in between Rajnath Singh & the other gentleman to get his ugly mug photographed. That's the biggest high light of the evening .
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For a moment there I didn't understand who DKS was, had to go back to the post to look and then realize you were referring to Di**Shi :)
 
alphadefense.in

Exclusive : AMCA Production with HAL-Led Joint Venture - alphadefense.in

India is set to manufacture the Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) through a HAL-led joint venture with private firms.
alphadefense.in

HAL has invited private firms to form a joint venture that will handle AMCA manufacturing. The JV will have the following structure:

  • HAL will hold a 50% stake.
  • Four private firms will each hold 12.5% stakes.
  • Each firm will manage a specific work package.
The project aims to manufacture 126 AMCA aircraft, with production spanning from 2035 to 2047. The production schedule includes:
  • 9 aircraft annually from 2035 to 2038.
  • 10 aircraft per year from 2039 onward.

View: https://youtu.be/Dm7yS6CilCw
 
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