AMCA - Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft

[Bhartiya Sainik]

As a longtime AMCA follower, i will say this : looks decent on paper. But for any 5/ 5++ gen birds to be built, you **MUST** build a prototype first before getting all excited. Because whether your stealth bird is a hero or zero depends ALSO on manufacturing standards - if you make it like the first batches of the Su-57 with not well fitted panels and stuck out rivets, welp, you just wasted a lotta money on fancy paint and gave up a lot of aerodynamics performance for nothing coz all these rough spots produce EM signature coz well the screws are all metal.
If you make it like the production quality F-22 or the latest batches of the Su-57, where the surface is more like shiny smooth cake, then yes, go ahead, get more excited and finally chest thump about making a 5/5++ gen fighter.
But this isnt like a 1-4.5++ gen fighter, where surface finishing is of no real importance as they make negligible impact to the performance of the aircraft in the range/aerodynamics parameter and u dont care about radar signature coz you aint stealth to begin with.

So HAL may make videos and shit, but until the first prototype test model rolls of the production line and we get to see whether it looks like a baby's bottom or Om Puri's face, we should hold excitement.

Baby bottom or Om Puri's face? Bechare Om Puri ji


BTW, he was wonderful actor. R.I.P. 'Om Sadgatir Bhuyat'(ॐ सद्गति भूयात्)

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

As a longtime AMCA follower, i will say this : looks decent on paper. But for any 5/ 5++ gen birds to be built, you **MUST** build a prototype first before getting all excited. Because whether your stealth bird is a hero or zero depends ALSO on manufacturing standards - if you make it like the first batches of the Su-57 with not well fitted panels and stuck out rivets, welp, you just wasted a lotta money on fancy paint and gave up a lot of aerodynamics performance for nothing coz all these rough spots produce EM signature coz well the screws are all metal.
If you make it like the production quality F-22 or the latest batches of the Su-57, where the surface is more like shiny smooth cake, then yes, go ahead, get more excited and finally chest thump about making a 5/5++ gen fighter.
But this isnt like a 1-4.5++ gen fighter, where surface finishing is of no real importance as they make negligible impact to the performance of the aircraft in the range/aerodynamics parameter and u dont care about radar signature coz you aint stealth to begin with.

So HAL may make videos and shit, but until the first prototype test model rolls of the production line and we get to see whether it looks like a baby's bottom or Om Puri's face, we should hold excitement.

There have been lots of videos & chatter on this & it was clarified that 1st few prototypes of Su-57 were not aimed at RCS testing but other basic aspects of flight, avionics, etc to see if the jet will fly as expected or not. I guess they didn't have working DAS, DIRCM, etc. Stealth coatings are said to be expensive.
F-22 & F-35 also have rivets on the access panels. When exposed to foreign jets or airspace, some kind of stealth putty is said to be applied on them.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Arrrreeee Sir...let that poor Chap finish his work na
Then we'll all judge how exposed the screws are

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Arrrreeee Sir...let that poor Chap finish his work na
Then we'll all judge how exposed the screws are
View attachment 18914

Arrrrrreeee Muuunnnnaaa, i already have this pic & 100s others. I keep collecting randomly from google since 25 years.
I know you'll persue PhD but a low IQ engineer like me knows that rivets won't be left out like that. I shared F-35 pic also & said that putty is said to be applied.
Here is another F-22 pic after finished work of some poor chap, ignore the bird strike.

Every flying pic closeup shows the rivets.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Arrrrrreeee Muuunnnnaaa, i already have this pic & 100s others. I keep collecting randomly from google since 25 years.
I know you'll persue PhD but a low IQ engineer like me knows that rivets won't be left out like that. I shared F-35 pic also & said that putty is said to be applied.
Here is another F-22 pic after finished work of some poor chap, ignore the bird strike.
View attachment 18918
Every flying pic closeup shows the rivets.

Isn't this an older Block 20 Raptor that's currently in "Non-Combat Condition" because of it's...well conditions?
And also isn't this in this exact condition because the people didn't bother with the regular costly RAM maintenance as this specific jet is part of the Raptor Demonstration Team?
And if I'm wrong then back in 2022, USAF was planning to retire atleast 32 of these Block 20s, including this specific one?

By the way, you don't need a PhD to understand the difference between a Torx screw and a rivet. Even a terminally retarded guy like me can tell them apart.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Isn't this an older Block 20 Raptor that's currently in "Non-Combat Condition" because of it's...well conditions?
And also isn't this in this exact condition because the people didn't bother with the regular costly RAM maintenance as this specific jet is part of the Raptor Demonstration Team?
And if I'm wrong then back in 2022, USAF was planning to retire atleast 32 of these Block 20s, including this specific one?

Why don't you think before replying after telling you repeatedly? Please stop this reflexive negation.
I mentioned to ignore the bird strike & every flying pic shows the rivets/torx-screws.
Perhaps you can share a latest pic where they are gone. From tech PoV we all'll be happy to see some technique to remove/reduce them, something like bay doors but with only 2 in corners.

When members like me praise F-22 then Su-57 defenders pounce & say this guy is USA-bhakt. When we praise Su-57 then Western defenders pounce. What should we do? How will tech discussion progress properly?

By the way, you don't need a PhD to understand the difference between a Torx screw and a rivet. Even a terminally retarded guy like me can tell them apart.

Although 1st year in engineering college was/is common but most AICTE accredited A grade colleges don't teach difference b/w Torx screw & rivet, atleast not back in 2000s, may be today. IITs, NITs might have taught. Thereafter in 2nd, 3rd, 4th year may be Mechanical students will study that but not Computer/IT students. If you're not Computer/IT guy & if i start discussing S/w protocols, algorithms even in limited level then it could be problem to comprehend.

 

[Ayan Barat]

When members like me praise F-22 then Su-57 defenders pounce & say this guy is USA-bhakt. When we praise Su-57 then Western defenders pounce. What should we do?

Start praising Qaher-313

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Start praising Qaher-313

 

[mcpo117]

Arrrrrreeee Muuunnnnaaa, i already have this pic & 100s others. I keep collecting randomly from google since 25 years.
I know you'll persue PhD but a low IQ engineer like me knows that rivets won't be left out like that. I shared F-35 pic also & said that putty is said to be applied.
Here is another F-22 pic after finished work of some poor chap, ignore the bird strike.
View attachment 18918
Every flying pic closeup shows the rivets.

those are countersunk flat heads.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

those are countersunk flat heads.

There can be many mechanical terms but they are seen on all stealth jets.

 

[mcpo117]

There can be many mechanical terms but they are seen on all stealth jets.

it's a structural term. but you have a point.

 

[Bleh]

View: https://x.com/TheLegateIN/status/1869938152858890737

 

[Blademaster]

View: https://x.com/TheLegateIN/status/1869938152858890737

But how do we accelerate such programs? Are they willing to pony up the money and critical resources to accomplish such a thing?

 

[Bleh]

But how do we accelerate such programs? Are they willing to pony up the money and critical resources to accomplish such a thing?

Hadn't you heard?..

View: https://x.com/Indiasgrowing/status/1869038767434248194

 

[BON PLAN]

Hadn't you heard?..

View: https://x.com/Indiasgrowing/status/1869038767434248194

As seen in Ukraine, all the russian "special" weapons are not so potent.
They only are able to take some lands thanks to a huge loss of soldiers and materials. They are obliged to purchase iranian suicide drones and missiles, and north korean soldiers and 152mm shells....

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

But how do we accelerate such programs? Are they willing to pony up the money and critical resources to accomplish such a thing?

Those people lack brains, I mean Iam all for importing F-35 Or Rafale if it to be must and allowed but the Su-57 is a joke. IAF dodged a huge bullet. Haven't you heard that we were about to be milked 27 Billion again in Su-57 program.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

From a tech PoV, I've mixed feelings about Su-57. I don't wanna conclude anything. I liked certain things like its levcons, side radar, DIRCM, DAS, TVC & agility, possible rear radar. It'll be ahead of our present 4gen jets. But i didn't like its insufficiently curved intakes, curved IRST, SWB portruding under wing rather than in the airframe, lack of EOTS needing external pod, central IWB not disclosed yet with weapons, lack of rear engine blocker, etc. If it can carry only 6 AAMs then AMCA can also do it with short fin AAMs.
So overall it is still dicey.
If GoI/MoD goes for some then again mixed avionics & weapons will have to be initiated.

F-35......... biggest honey-trap for us ever so far.

 

[Spitfire IX]

View: https://x.com/TheLegateIN/status/1869938152858890737

The easiest way to accelerate things is to dump a procurement system designed to decelerate things.

PS Sorry if my shocking language offends!

 

[Blademaster]

Hadn't you heard?..

View: https://x.com/Indiasgrowing/status/1869038767434248194

I meant in the context of AMCA and such. We may have no choice but to go for FGFA again. I just hope that Russia finally got the message and start delivering what IAF wants instead of forcing a plane with non performance specs down the throat of IAF.

 

[Blademaster]

As seen in Ukraine, all the russian "special" weapons are not so potent.
They only are able to take some lands thanks to a huge loss of soldiers and materials. They are obliged to purchase iranian suicide drones and missiles, and north korean soldiers and 152mm shells....

Don't fall for Ukrainian & NATO propaganda. Russia seized a territory 3 times the area that US seized in Gulf War 1 using far less soldiers and held that for several months against overwhelming military support by NATO whereas Iraq did not and basically collapsed in the first week of Gulf War 2.

US and NATO did not have any supplies cut off to them or have their assets seized by another nation. The Russians did well considering the circumstances.