ASTRA BVRAAM

[Wolfie]

DRDO: IAF gives clearance to DRDO, BDL for Astra missile production - The Economic Times

Bharat Dynamics Limited has received production clearance from the Indian Air Force for 200 Astra Mark 1 air-to-air missiles, developed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation. These missiles will be integrated with Su-30 and LCA Tejas fighter jets. Future tests include the Astra...

m.economictimes.com

What does clearence to produce 200 astra means, didnt we already recieve and currently use the astra missiles ?

Repeat order ig

 

[Pundit Pikachu]

Astra BVR missile has Cooperative Engagement Capabilities and IAF used it in this networked mode




This is a major capability. A non-emitting LCA at BVR firing ranges would incredibly difficult to find (Yes, LCA is not a stealth aircraft. But it is small, with completely hidden compressor face and a large percentage of composite.
It's difficult to detect, atleast in comparison to our Russian jets)

Now Imagine Su30 with the upcoming Virupaksha radar which would be one of the most powerful AESA radar on any fighter platform, that too on a swashplate guiding this Astra Mk 1 fired by LCA.

 

[Pundit Pikachu]

More Astra Mk 2 Media


View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1829947586268315908

F*ck yes we are so back.

Side Note : The Universal Ejector Launcher clearly visible and in action

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

More Astra Mk 2 Media


View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1829947586268315908

F*ck yes we are so back.

Side Note : The Universal Ejector Launcher clearly visible and in action

Common for both astra mk1 & 2
Ig it should work for astra mk3 too.
They must have engineered it a way that it will accommodate SFDR too. SFDR is said to be 218+-2kg in weight and mk1 weights 152kg what's mk2 weight I heard it to be around 170kg.

 

[Blood+]

Common for both astra mk1 & 2
Ig it should work for astra mk3 too.
They must have engineered it a way that it will accommodate SFDR too. SFDR is said to be 218+-2kg in weight and mk1 weights 152kg what's mk2 weight I heard it to be around 170kg.

What's the possible max range for mk2, any idea??

 

[705-Lira]

What's the possible max range for mk2, any idea??

Should be between 130-160km.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

What's the possible max range for mk2, any idea??

Initially they said twice the range of astra mk1 but Then published 160km.
I will say by twice the range means for kill zone or the engagement range. Because of dual pulse.
Personaly I don't even believe mk1s 110km or any other figures published.

Its maximum range is 20 km (12 mi) in tail chase mode and 110 km (68 mi) in head on chase mode.The maximum range is achieved when the missile launched from an altitude of 15 km (49,000 ft). When it is fired from an altitude of 8 km (26,000 ft), the range drops to 44 km (27 mi) and when it is launched from sea level, the range drops further to 21 km (13 mi). It can be launched in both autonomous and buddy mode operation and can lock on to its target before or after it is launched.

I have even heard mk2 to hit 130-140km at medium altitudes and max could be 160km for max altitude. This are all just speculation. What they release is also speculation.
What is clear is mk1 is superior to aim c5 of pak
And mk2 is superior to there pl15E (export) version.
Astra mk2 rivals aim 120 C7.
Atleast

All secured on West all our eyes are on East.

Mk3 SFDR is a very big necessity on eastern front they are making pl12D ramjet missile.
Hardly anything comes out ig there is also pl15d.
Earlier one could be highly munuverable and other one could be balanced between munuverability and range like pl15. They have pl17 and some say 21 for longer ranges. Anti awacs,tanker role I hope we develop counter to this too.

 

[saturatedfat]

So its confirmed , 400 astra missile ordered

 

[Pundit Pikachu]

View attachment 4644
Astra Mk 3 specifications

Mass : 220kg
Length : 3838mm
Diameter : 178/200 mm
Warhead : Most likely High-explosive pre-fragmented HMX/PU
Altitude : 50m to 20km
Launch Speed : 0.8 - 2.2 mach
Interception Speed : 2.0 -3.6 mach
Range : 190 (at 8km altitude) to 340 km (20km altitude)
Angle of Attack : 20°
Midcourse Guidence : INS with 2 way data link
Terminal Guidence : Active Radar Homing

More SFDR / Astra Mk-3 Media

 

[saturatedfat]

BTW when are we integrating astra missile with mig 29s?

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

BTW when are we integrating astra missile with mig 29s?

When mission computer will be upgraded. Then it will also get uttam aesa too (for Navy)

 

[saturatedfat]

When mission computer will be upgraded. Then it will also get uttam aesa too (for Navy)

And for air force ?

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

And for air force ?

I think iaf will have to upgrade mission computer too. They will also do same.
Whereas naval migs will undergo full upgrade where it will get aesa too.

 

[Pundit Pikachu]

Found a somewhat old snippet of a tender document related to Astra Mk 2 on another forum confirming the outer diameter of Astra Mk 2 to be 190 mm compared to 178mm of Astra Mk 1

And according to Alpha Defence The Astra Mk2 missile’s two pulses are separated with EDPM rubber with kevlar fillers, with the second pulse having a higher burn rate than the first. This enables the missile to maneuver more aggressively during end game, enhancing its targeting capabilities. The weight of the missile system is kept low, with pulse 1 weighing 40.1kg and pulse 2 weighing 20kg.

https://alphadefense.in/bvr-astra/

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Found a somewhat old snippet of a tender document related to Astra Mk 2 on another forum confirming the outer diameter of Astra Mk 2 to be 190 mm compared to 178mm of Astra Mk 1

And according to Alpha Defence The Astra Mk2 missile’s two pulses are separated with EDPM rubber with kevlar fillers, with the second pulse having a higher burn rate than the first. This enables the missile to maneuver more aggressively during end game, enhancing its targeting capabilities. The weight of the missile system is kept low, with pulse 1 weighing 40.1kg and pulse 2 weighing 20kg.

https://alphadefense.in/bvr-astra/

View attachment 9382

Second one has higher burn than first? Pakka?

Generally its better to have much slower burn in second motor, thats why its called sustainer.

 

[Pundit Pikachu]

With the emergence of next generation AAM missiles concepts from the US and China, coupled with the proliferation of 5th gen platforms in our neighborhood and the growing significance of Loyal Wingman in future battles, highlights the need for us to be future ready and start developing the next generation of AAMs or risk falling behind."

Here is my vision for the future of BVR missiles in IAF

Astra Mk 1

Max Range	80-110 km
Technology Used	Single Pulse Rocket Motor
Target	Fighter Jets at Double Digit Ranges
Maneuverability and Carriage	Can be carried in IWB and is highly Maneuverable
Warhead	Small 15kg PF warhead
Similar Systems	AMRAAM
My reasons	Is comparatively Cheap and provides an competitive edge over most of the current PAF inventory, would be useful as a standard BVR for secondary fighters like LCA

Astra Mk 2

Max Range	140-160 km
Technology Used	Dual Pulse Rocket Motor
Target	Fighter Jets at Long Double Digit Ranges
Maneuverability and Carriage	Can be carried in IWB and is highly Maneuverable
Warhead	Small 20-25 kg PF warhead
Similar Systems	PL 15
My reasons	Totally Dominates Current and Future PAF inventory and can provide a somewhat competitive edge over PLAAF inventory, would be useful as a standard BVR for frontline fighters

Astra Mk 3

Max Range	250 - 300 km
Technology Used	Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet
Target	Fighter Jets at Triple Digit Ranges
Maneuverability and Carriage	Can be carried in IWB and is highly Maneuverable
Warhead	Small 20- 25 kg PF warhead
Similar Systems	Meteor
My reasons	Even though it's expensive, it totally Dominates Current and Future PAF inventory and can provide an competitive edge over PLAAF inventory, would be useful as a special use BVR for frontline fighters

Astra Mk 4

Max Range	40-60 km (Max 80 km)
Technology Used	Relatively Single Pulse Rocket Motor
Target	Loyal Wingmen Drones at Double Digit Ranges
Maneuverability and Carriage	Half the size of current BVR's and can be carried in IWB of Smaller Loyal Wingman like CATS Warrior
Warhead	Hit to kill (similar to PAC-3)
Similar Systems	Lockheed Martin’s CUDA
My reasons	Loyal Wingmen need to be low cost and expendable which means they need to be relatively small in size due to which our standard missile can't fit in their IWB and thus a CUDA class missile the size of SAAW will be a perfect fit. Not to mention it would allow 5th gen platforms to carry a lot more Missile in the IWB.

Astra Mk 5

Max Range	300-350 km
Technology Used	Triple Pulsed (2 stage missile)
Target	Fighter Jets at Triple Digit Ranges
Maneuverability and Carriage	Can only be carried externally on big fighters like Su 30 and is highly Maneuverable
Warhead	Small 20- 25 kg PF warhead
Similar Systems	Boeing LRAAM
My reasons	Can be used in a mesh network against enemy fighters where 5th gen platforms relay the target info to larger platforms in the back which would fire this missile at the target. Could be a cheaper alternative to Astra Mk 3

Astra Mk 6

Max Range	400-450 km
Technology Used	2 stage Dual Pulse Rocket Motor
Target	Support Assets (AWACS) at Long Triple Digit Ranges
Maneuverability and Carriage	Can only be carried externally on big fighters like Su 30 and is not very maneuverable
Warhead	Large 50- 60 kg PF warhead
Similar Systems	PL 17 or AIM-174B
My reasons	It is less technologically complex than Astra Mk 3 and is badly needed to counterbalance the high numbers of AWACS and Tankers present in both PAF and PLAAF. The missile would be a 2 stage missile with 1st stage being dropped mid flight, allowing it to reach longer ranges and destroy enemy assets.

 

[SlayingHell]

We need a Mini-Missile ideally at 6ft length as a Hit-To-Kill Interceptor Missile with large warhead against incoming BVRAAMs. Now due to DAS being present on 5th-Generation Aircraft, it is rather possible to accurately track these small RCS missiles which were earlier a pain in ass to track. With rapid pace of miniaturization of electronics and AI Chips, this can be possible.

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

This is not feasible. We don't have budget for all that. Instead the mk5 & mk6 should be derived from astra mk3. There is no need to reinvent wheel in you're vision you're just reinventing phoenix & r37.
For loyal wing man they have already made it clear ngccm by default for them. No mk4 nothing like that is needed. Today's iir missile are most lethal the seeker technology can counter all counter measures. they have good ranges too. And its better to have a iir one instead of rf for a loyal wing man. Especially against low observable aircrafts.

Instead of spending money in this they should do advancement in astra mk1 & mk2 the Americans are squeezing out so much from they're amraam.

We need to work to advance our solid fuel grains,
Compaction of sledge. Which will result in more fuel storage.
Miniaturizing internal components, electronics and all.
Advances in seeker are already going on as we see. This advances can together be put in astra mk1 and astra mk2.
Fuel advancements are must Americans are so ahead in this tells us how long we can progress that too without dual pulse. This advancements can help us in other programs too.
If we are able to squeeze out performance from solid fuel rocket motor like Americans if we do enough advancements then astra mk1 & mk2 will be altogether a world class beast.

Abt astra mk3 which is altogether a different class of missile. Should also undergo similar advancements.

In short we need to work alot on solid fuel & solid fuel grains.

With the emergence of next generation AAM missiles concepts from the US and China, coupled with the proliferation of 5th gen platforms in our neighborhood and the growing significance of Loyal Wingman in future battles, highlights the need for us to be future ready and start developing the next generation of AAMs or risk falling behind."

Here is my vision for the future of BVR missiles in IAF

Astra Mk 1

Max Range	80-110 km
Technology Used	Single Pulse Rocket Motor
Target	Fighter Jets at Double Digit Ranges
Maneuverability and Carriage	Can be carried in IWB and is highly Maneuverable
Warhead	Small 15kg PF warhead
Similar Systems	AMRAAM
My reasons	Is comparatively Cheap and provides an competitive edge over most of the current PAF inventory, would be useful as a standard BVR for secondary fighters like LCA

Astra Mk 2

Max Range	140-160 km
Technology Used	Dual Pulse Rocket Motor
Target	Fighter Jets at Long Double Digit Ranges
Maneuverability and Carriage	Can be carried in IWB and is highly Maneuverable
Warhead	Small 20-25 kg PF warhead
Similar Systems	PL 15
My reasons	Totally Dominates Current and Future PAF inventory and can provide a somewhat competitive edge over PLAAF inventory, would be useful as a standard BVR for frontline fighters

Astra Mk 3
View attachment 10718

Max Range	250 - 300 km
Technology Used	Solid Fuel Ducted Ramjet
Target	Fighter Jets at Triple Digit Ranges
Maneuverability and Carriage	Can be carried in IWB and is highly Maneuverable
Warhead	Small 20- 25 kg PF warhead
Similar Systems	Meteor
My reasons	Even though it's expensive, it totally Dominates Current and Future PAF inventory and can provide an competitive edge over PLAAF inventory, would be useful as a special use BVR for frontline fighters

Astra Mk 4
View attachment 10710

Max Range	40-60 km (Max 80 km)
Technology Used	Relatively Single Pulse Rocket Motor
Target	Loyal Wingmen Drones at Double Digit Ranges
Maneuverability and Carriage	Half the size of current BVR's and can be carried in IWB of Smaller Loyal Wingman like CATS Warrior
Warhead	Hit to kill (similar to PAC-3)
Similar Systems	Lockheed Martin’s CUDA
My reasons	Loyal Wingmen need to be low cost and expendable which means they need to be relatively small in size due to which our standard missile can't fit in their IWB and thus a CUDA class missile the size of SAAW will be a perfect fit. Not to mention it would allow 5th gen platforms to carry a lot more Missile in the IWB.

Astra Mk 5
View attachment 10713

Max Range	300-350 km
Technology Used	Triple Pulsed (2 stage missile)
Target	Fighter Jets at Triple Digit Ranges
Maneuverability and Carriage	Can only be carried externally on big fighters like Su 30 and is highly Maneuverable
Warhead	Small 20- 25 kg PF warhead
Similar Systems	Boeing LRAAM
My reasons	Can be used in a mesh network against enemy fighters where 5th gen platforms relay the target info to larger platforms in the back which would fire this missile at the target. Could be a cheaper alternative to Astra Mk 3

Astra Mk 6
View attachment 10717

Max Range	400-450 km
Technology Used	2 stage Dual Pulse Rocket Motor
Target	Support Assets (AWACS) at Long Triple Digit Ranges
Maneuverability and Carriage	Can only be carried externally on big fighters like Su 30 and is not very maneuverable
Warhead	Large 50- 60 kg PF warhead
Similar Systems	PL 17 or AIM-174B
My reasons	It is less technologically complex than Astra Mk 3 and is badly needed to counterbalance the high numbers of AWACS and Tankers present in both PAF and PLAAF. The missile would be a 2 stage missile with 1st stage being dropped mid flight, allowing it to reach longer ranges and destroy enemy assets.

 

[Pundit Pikachu]

Instead the mk5 & mk6 should be derived from astra mk3.

The only reason I proposed Mk 5 was because it would be a cheaper alternative to SFDR based missiles and Americans and funding a similar concept.
But a SFDR based Astra Mk 6 would be utter foolishness, SFDR based missiles are already extremely costly as it is but if they were to be used in anti AWACS role they would need longer range and a larger payload which would necessitate a bigger missile that would be so costly that it would render it unfeasible
Not to mention the key advantage of a SFDR based missile is it's amazing maneuvbility which isn't exactly what we need in an anti AWACS role.

Instead of spending money in this they should do advancement in astra mk1 & mk2 the Americans are squeezing out so much from they're amraam

We can do both though, infact research on projects like Astra Mk 4 (Indian CUDA equivalent) would only help this effort.

in you're vision you're just reinventing phoenix & r37.

That's cause we need a modern R37 for fending of the superior number of AWACS and tanker aircrafts PAF and PLAAF have.
In essence even PL 17's are a reinvented R-37.

For loyal wing man they have already made it clear ngccm by default for them. No mk4 nothing like that is needed.

The only thing a CATS warrior size drone can carry in it's IWB are 2 SAAW bomb, not a big ass ASRAAM,
NGCCM are only a temporary answer, we can't rely on them all the time, Are you really planning to fly AMCA alongside a loyal Wingman which has 2 literal glowing radar sticks on it's either side.
Not to mention instead of only having 4 NGCCMs on your 5th gen fighters you can have 8 Astra Mk 4. even if the Mk 4 are less capable than NGCCM, they more than make up for it by their sheer numbers

 

[Satish Sharma Ji]

The only reason I proposed Mk 5 was because it would be a cheaper alternative to SFDR based missiles and Americans and funding a similar concept.
But a SFDR based Astra Mk 6 would be utter foolishness, SFDR based missiles are already extremely costly as it is but if they were to be used in anti AWACS role they would need longer range and a larger payload which would necessitate a bigger missile that would be so costly that it would render it unfeasible
Not to mention the key advantage of a SFDR based missile is it's amazing maneuvbility which isn't exactly what we need in an anti AWACS role.

We can do both though, infact research on projects like Astra Mk 4 (Indian CUDA equivalent) would only help this effort.


That's cause we need a modern R37 for fending of the superior number of AWACS and tanker aircrafts PAF and PLAAF have.
In essence even PL 17's are a reinvented R-37.


The only thing a CATS warrior size drone can carry in it's IWB are 2 SAAW bomb, not a big ass ASRAAM,
NGCCM are only a temporary answer, we can't rely on them all the time, Are you really planning to fly AMCA alongside a loyal Wingman which has 2 literal glowing radar sticks on it's either side.
Not to mention instead of only having 4 NGCCMs on your 5th gen fighters you can have 8 Astra Mk 4. even if the Mk 4 are less capable than NGCCM, they more than make up for it by their sheer numbers

Ok but wouldn't mass production bring down the cost of SFDR in india.