Chinese Air Force

Ginvincible said:
Only 2 generations behind China?

India is barely able to make a handful of 4th gen Tejas Mk1 to replace Mig-21s. That too by relying heavily on imported parts.

China is mass manufacturing 5th gen fighters and flying multiple 6th gen prototypes with an entirely domestic ecosystem.

It's not even close.
Click to expand...
6th generations fighter are bigger but bigger means more heavy, more heavy means less agile add they lack many vertical surfaces, the best way to beat them are radars.
IAF needs to be aware BRICS is a joke, I see China selling weapons to Pakistan, with an ally like that who needs enemies.

The Chinese Machine also if it is real uses 3 engines, what suggest weak engines.

1735218015250.webp

Boom supersonic uses 3 engines because its engines are J-85 in few words weak old engines.

More engines more fuel, more fuel more size more size heavier heavier less agile, add no vertical surfaces and you can see something that might fly at Mach 2 but not very likely at Mach 3 simply like that.

XB-1 flight

1735218351168.webp

consider XB-1 has a huge vertical tail and two horizontal tails.
1735219709126.webp

very fast aircraft need large vertical tails like X-15
1735219785231.webp
For the Chinese machine even the third engine is for electricity generation has made a huge cross section, time will tell if this thing is real, but is not a game changer weapon, WMD are more important.

Add a third engine with a dorsal intake has high probability of losing air flow at high AoA
 
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Bhartiya Sainik said:
The upper intake is likely for middle engine. It could be regular engine or a Ramjet or hybrid.
Click to expand...

Chinese media gusse there would be 3 possible usages:

1. ramjet engine for deeper space higher than 30,000m

2. Part of vector control, for maneuverability

3. provide more power for laser weapon.

The cheif desginer Yang Wei said:

... ...

The deformation of the sixth generation aircraft is a complete change in the shape of the entire fuselage and the external aerodynamic layout, which is much more complex than simple variable sweep wings.

The second point defined by the chief engineer for the sixth generation aircraft is the ability to break through traditional space and conduct trans atmospheric warfare, such as space or suborbital bombing operations.

The current fourth and fifth generation fighter jets are only suitable for aerial combat in dense atmospheres below 30000 meters due to their use of turbofans or turbojet engines.

... ...
Click to expand...
 
helin said:

View: https://x.com/DailyD1ss1dent/status/1872254293220479361
Click to expand...


Yes, some people said Shenyang side also made second one today, i guess 30% true.

But SAC is not in the downtown of Chengdu city like CAC, very limited pics and vids online.

But the SAC's roadmap showed there will be another one for different roles than CAC.

1000074145.webp

I think more details is coming.

But since the SAC is makiing J16, the chase-plane is J16 is reasonable here:



View: https://x.com/zhao_dashuai/status/1872250342857195631?t=HyP6iRMf1qqlj5keb1A8DQ&s=19
 
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E-195 said:
the best way to beat them are radars.
Click to expand...
I actually agree with this. India is so far behind China (and the world) when it comes to air power that it's not worth trying to import squadrons to try and catch up. They won't come in time, will be outdated and will be way too expensive.

Better to just build up asymmetric capabilities until India gets her house in order.

E-195 said:
IAF needs to be aware BRICS is a joke, I see China selling weapons to Pakistan, with an ally like that who needs enemies.
Click to expand...
BRICS was never a military alliance though? Right now BRICS is just an annual economic forum. It's trying to morph into a multipolar political forum. BRICS, SCO, ADB, etc are just exercises in creating parallel institutions to western ones. Maybe an expanded BRICS will replace the UN in relevance.. that's a long ways off though.

E-195 said:
The Chinese Machine also if it is real uses 3 engines, what suggest weak engines.
Click to expand...
Or the 3rd engines is a ramjet/scramjet for acceleration? Could be some engine for extremely high altitudes. Could also just be trialing a new engine. It's impossible to say.

From what I understand the newer Chinese engines are quite capable in performance. No idea on cycle life though.

E-195 said:
but is not a change game weapons WMD are more important
Click to expand...
It is a game changer. Keeping pace with adversaries in the conventional realm is incredibly important. It opens up options for mitigating lower levels of conflict beyond institgating a nuclear war. It also deters your adversaries from engaging in lower levels of conflict. If India is still relying on Mig-21s and sending in soldiers without armor or sights, why wouldn't China or a better equipped Pakistan feel tempted for limited war and land grabs a la Kargil?
 
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rockdog said:
Yes, some people said Shenyang side also made second one today, i guess 30% true.

But SAC is not in the downtown of Chengdu city like CAC, very limited pics and vids online.

But the SAC's roadmap showed there will be another one for different roles than CAC.

View attachment 19641

I think more details is coming.

But since the SAC is makiing J16, the chase-plane is J16 is reasonable here:



View: https://x.com/zhao_dashuai/status/1872250342857195631?t=HyP6iRMf1qqlj5keb1A8DQ&s=19
Click to expand...



Now there is a saying (50% ture?), today SAC also made maiden flight in Shenyang, for its own version, and this is the translation:


The sixth generation aircraft project is not bidding but two 6th Gen planes, and their positioning is completely offset while their uses are complementary. CAC from Chengdu City one is a three engines "long-range combat" that emphasizes high stealth, long range, high speed, and large payload capacity on the opposite side.

SAC from Shengyang city is a twin engine "AF and Navy-air dual usage", highlighting high stealth, high maneuverability, long range, and large payload capacity in the air.

CAC one is about 26 meters long, SAC one is about 21 meters long!

1000074165.webp


1000074159.webp

1000074163.webp

1000074164.webp

1000074162.webp



View: https://x.com/Barong369/status/1872281765882073472?t=UFRUrLy44jRICOtBPKv7nQ&s=19
 
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rockdog said:
Now there is a saying (50% ture?), today SAC also made maiden flight in Shenyang, for its own version, and this is the translation:


The sixth generation aircraft project is not bidding but two 6th Gen planes, and their positioning is completely offset while their uses are complementary. CAC from Chengdu City one is a three engines "long-range combat" that emphasizes high stealth, long range, high speed, and large payload capacity on the opposite side.

SAC from Shengyang city is a twin engine "AF and Navy-air dual usage", highlighting high stealth, high maneuverability, long range, and large payload capacity in the air.

CAC one is about 26 meters long, SAC one is about 21 meters long!

View attachment 19648


View attachment 19644

View attachment 19645

View attachment 19646

View attachment 19647



View: https://x.com/Barong369/status/1872281765882073472?t=UFRUrLy44jRICOtBPKv7nQ&s=19
Click to expand...


Crazy day, no one expected.

Asked friends in the industry on WeChat, all kept silence...


View: https://x.com/Fighterman_FFRC/status/1872262779253735812?t=d04iPYbwFuwK408T--4GZQ&s=19


View: https://x.com/Hurin92/status/1872287448321155301?t=tNMTVDjuPq30Cxh1rTdkPA&s=19
 
Ginvincible said:
I actually agree with this. India is so far behind China (and the world) when it comes to air power that it's not worth trying to import squadrons to try and catch up. They won't come in time, will be outdated and will be way too expensive.

Better to just build up asymmetric capabilities until India gets her house in order.


BRICS was never a military alliance though? Right now BRICS is just an annual economic forum. It's trying to morph into a multipolar political forum. BRICS, SCO, ADB, etc are just exercises in creating parallel institutions to western ones. Maybe an expanded BRICS will replace the UN in relevance.. that's a long ways off though.


Or the 3rd engines is a ramjet/scramjet for acceleration? Could be some engine for extremely high altitudes. Could also just be trialing a new engine. It's impossible to say.

From what I understand the newer Chinese engines are quite capable in performance. No idea on cycle life though.


It is a game changer. Keeping pace with adversaries in the conventional realm is incredibly important. It opens up options for mitigating lower levels of conflict beyond institgating a nuclear war. It also deters your adversaries from engaging in lower levels of conflict. If India is still relying on Mig-21s and sending in soldiers without armor or sights, why wouldn't China or a better equipped Pakistan feel tempted for limited war and land grabs a la Kargil?
Click to expand...
Let me explain me.

WWIII if ever happens will last weeks or a few months at the most.
Considering China man power, they can field like India 200 to 500 million men.
What will be the most important weapon?

It will be Biological weapons.

these weapons are just for proxy wars.

Not even satellites are as important, the reality big wars are WMD wars.
These aircraft are not more than manned flying wings, very heavy, not maneuverable.

They are basically bombers that is the reason they say B-21 can replace NGAD aircraft since long range weapons and lasers are more important.

These aircraft will be beaten by more maneuverable fighters easily, but since they suppose to bring stealth to higher level and long range they are too heavy, basically are bomber size.

More weigh means higher loads, a 70 kilos man at 9 Gs weighs 630kg a 30 tones machines at 9Gs is 2700,00 kg load so the structure is fragile, a B-737 can not be used as a fighter and are G restricted, the faster you go the larger the turn radius and higher vertical tails are needed, these aircraft has no tails, but the NGAD or FAS do have guess why?
 
rockdog said:
Chinese media gusse there would be 3 possible usages:
1. ramjet engine for deeper space higher than 30,000m
Click to expand...
> 30,000m+ =100,000 ft+. Will 1 Ramjet be enough for high altitude? What about redundancy? I speculated it for high supersnic speed but not that high.
MiG-25 with 2-4 missiles could sustain flight at 68-78K ft. with Afterburner (AB).
Later, MiG-31 could go upto 82K ft. with AB.
YF-12, A-12, SR-71 flew at Mach-3+ & 80-90K ft. for more than 1hr with help of special JP-7 fuel in huge tanks & J-58 variable geometry engine leading to a huge airframe.
The YF-12 could launch AIM-47 AAM at Mach-3.2 & 74K ft.
So such flight examples can be expected from this jet.

rockdog said:
2. Part of vector control, for maneuverability
Click to expand...
At high AoA, an intake mounted on top would face aerodynamic shadow, low pressure suffocating the engine & stalling the compressor.

rockdog said:
3. provide more power for laser weapon.
Click to expand...
Possible, until more powerful engines are developed.
 
Yea we are outclassed by a mile our projects I wouldn't even call them slow it's worse than slow now just focus on CATS program and Ghatak program I only have hope from these 2 programs
 
Chief designer of CAC 6th Gen, Yang Wei in a speech around 2023 said: The US B21 was desgined for China, and China's new 6th gen fighter was countering this threat.

Now all clues r making sense.

mmexport1735231589628.webp

mmexport1735231581321.webp

mmexport1735231585988.webp

mmexport1735231583591.webp
 
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