Chinese Economy Watch

[rockdog]

In Japan, pure electric bus manufacturers are still very few.

In the pure electric bus market in Japan, China's BYD (BYD) accounts for about 70% of the share,

The new all-electric London bus has active suspension, a 532kWh battery and over 400bhp​

https://www.topgear.com/car-news/first-look/new-all-electric-london-bus-has-active-suspension-a-532kwh-battery-and-over

BYD bus is quite busy on London, comparing other ICE bus, BYD bus came from different century.

 

[E-195]

BYD has made more electric buses in the US than anyone else—and it hasn’t given up on cars

BYD has made more electric buses in the US than anyone else—and it hasn’t given up on cars

China's BYD has focused on electric buses and trucks in the U.S.—and it's delivered more electric buses than any other maker so far.

www.greencarreports.com

5,900 e-buses are in operation in Latin America, with BYD, Foton and Yutong leading​

5,900 e-buses are in operation in Latin America, with BYD, Foton and Yutong leading

Around 5,900 electric buses are in operation in 41 cities in 12 Latin American countries, according to data highlighted in the E-Bus Radar...

www.sustainable-bus.com

5000 buses is nothing, only Mexico produces more than 20000 buses and trucks and Marcopolo from Brazil produces more, so few sales and does not meant they are making profits


Marcopolo announces the arrival of models of the Attivi Integral bus – an electric vehicle with its own chassis and body – to the city of Porto Alegre (RS) in 2024. In total, there will be 8 vehicles that will circulate on the routes operated by Nortran and Viação Teresópolis Cavalhada (VTC), with the first buses being delivered starting in April 2024.
"We are proud to be responsible for the development of a 100% Brazilian electrified vehicle, which has the country's automotive engineering expertise and combines reliability and safety, which the market already has in Marcopolo, with the most modern technological resources," says Ricardo Portolan.

La ciudad de Porto Alegre en Brasil recibe el nuevo autobús eléctrico Marcopolo Attivi Integral

La ciudad de Porto Alegre en Brasil recibe los primeros Marcopolo Attivi Integral totalmente eléctricos

www.fanbus.cl

 

[rockdog]

5000 buses is nothing, only Mexico produces more than 20000 buses and trucks and Marcopolo from Brazil produces more, so few sales and does not meant they are making profits

View attachment 17826
Marcopolo announces the arrival of models of the Attivi Integral bus – an electric vehicle with its own chassis and body – to the city of Porto Alegre (RS) in 2024. In total, there will be 8 vehicles that will circulate on the routes operated by Nortran and Viação Teresópolis Cavalhada (VTC), with the first buses being delivered starting in April 2024.
"We are proud to be responsible for the development of a 100% Brazilian electrified vehicle, which has the country's automotive engineering expertise and combines reliability and safety, which the market already has in Marcopolo, with the most modern technological resources," says Ricardo Portolan.

La ciudad de Porto Alegre en Brasil recibe el nuevo autobús eléctrico Marcopolo Attivi Integral

La ciudad de Porto Alegre en Brasil recibe los primeros Marcopolo Attivi Integral totalmente eléctricos

www.fanbus.cl

Good, Marco Polo used BYD tech from 2015, thanks for introucing such regional brand that just re-brand from BYD.

In May 2015, BYD signed an order to build a solar photovoltaic factory and cooperate with Marco Polo Bus Factory to produce pure electric buses during the Prime Minister's visit to Brazil.

Recently, this bus with both the "Marco Polo" and "BYD" logos was launched in Brazil.

Recently, the public transportation system in the Brazilian capital city of Bras í lia welcomed the new pure electric bus D9W, jointly developed by BYD and local car body manufacturer Marco Polo. It was officially unveiled and put into operation at the 8th World Water Forum held locally, bringing new green and environmentally friendly technologies to Bras í lia's public transportation.

Next time, if you don't have enough kownledge, you can try to search on Google, not that hard.

 

[Spacemarine]

chinaman share link of popular Chinese defense forum, I want to make chinamen frnds by writing in high mandarian

 

[Azaad]

US stares at billions in losses as China bans exports of these rare minerals. All you need to know

The United States is staring at billions in losses after China recently announced it has banned the exports of three rare minerals- gallium, germanium, and antimony- and other items to America. The move by China is also seen as a new way of countering President-elect Donald Trump, who will take...

m.economictimes.com

Seems like auspicious beginnings for the incoming Trump administration. @rockdog

Hopefully the next 4-5 years either results in a Sino US war even without Taiwan or brings both of them close to it . Trump is here on a mission. The CCP & Great Helmsman 2.0 must ensure he fulfills it .

Needless to say we're with the Han when it comes to settling scores with the Gwailou.

 

[helin]

US stares at billions in losses as China bans exports of these rare minerals. All you need to know

The United States is staring at billions in losses after China recently announced it has banned the exports of three rare minerals- gallium, germanium, and antimony- and other items to America. The move by China is also seen as a new way of countering President-elect Donald Trump, who will take...

m.economictimes.com

Seems like auspicious beginnings for the incoming Trump administration. @rockdog

Hopefully the next 4-5 years either results in a Sino US war even without Taiwan or brings both of them close to it . Trump is here on a mission. The CCP & Great Helmsman 2.0 must ensure he fulfills it .

Needless to say we're with the Han when it comes to settling scores with the Gwailou.

I want India's help in order to defeat US forces.

Please allow 150 AMCA to be sold to China

 

[E-195]

Good, Marco Polo used BYD tech from 2015, thanks for introucing such regional brand that just re-brand from BYD.








Next time, if you don't have enough kownledge, you can try to search on Google, not that hard.



View attachment 18063

I think you live in Chinaland since you do not know Mercedes Benz also maks E buses with Marcopolo and Eletra also makes lectrtic buses in brazil Chinaman, remeber the globalization means BYD or Mercedz benz work with marcopolo

Marcopolo has started the operational schedule for the first units of the Attivi Integral, an electric bus with chassis and bodywork developed by the brand. With an eye on the growing demand for electrification in public transportation, the company is starting to make its vehicles available for evaluation in different cities across the country.

Produced with the expertise of national engineering, the Marcopolo Attivi electric bus has different and adaptable configurations, according to the individual needs of the municipalities.

Marcopolo inicia operações com seu 1º ônibus elétrico 100% nacional

Serão disponibilizados 130 ônibus elétricos Marcopolo Attivi neste ano e até 1.000 unidades em 2024

insideevs.uol.com.br

Launched in late 2013, the e-Bus is the first Brazilian electric bus powered 100% by batteries.

The e-Bus is the result of a partnership with Brazilian companies. The vehicle features electric traction and integration technology from Eletra, a Caio e-Millennium body, WEG batteries and electric motors – all Brazilian companies – and a Mercedes-Benz and Scania chassis, manufactured in São Bernardo do Campo (SP).

Elétrico – Eletra

www.eletrabus.com.br

E-Bus 21,5m – articulado – Eletra

www.eletrabus.com.br

we chinese made ebilizing Mexcan can not do Blasilian can not do

 

[rockdog]

US stares at billions in losses as China bans exports of these rare minerals. All you need to know

The United States is staring at billions in losses after China recently announced it has banned the exports of three rare minerals- gallium, germanium, and antimony- and other items to America. The move by China is also seen as a new way of countering President-elect Donald Trump, who will take...

m.economictimes.com

Seems like auspicious beginnings for the incoming Trump administration. @rockdog

Hopefully the next 4-5 years either results in a Sino US war even without Taiwan or brings both of them close to it . Trump is here on a mission. The CCP & Great Helmsman 2.0 must ensure he fulfills it .

Needless to say we're with the Han when it comes to settling scores with the Gwailou.

China's export ban on some key materials was the reaction to US's new chip restriction.

Trump prefers to make deals than conflicts, i think his administration acutally would decrease the danger in
Taiwan strait.

The core issue of conflict between big two, my POV is the US still couldn't accept another nation has same level of power, and hardly to accept the co-existence with it, i think we need around 10 yrs to make them to acceptance.

I knew in last two yrs, your desire was waiting the war between China and USA. But even it happens, can Indian really benefit from it, or do you have ability to catch it? 2000 mellienum bug and 1st wave of globalization, 2008 financial crisis, 2018 trade war between China and USA, all of them India didn't handle chances well.

 

[rockdog]

I think you live in Chinaland since you do not know Mercedes Benz also maks E buses with Marcopolo and Eletra also makes lectrtic buses in brazil Chinaman, remeber the globalization means BYD or Mercedz benz work with marcopolo

Marcopolo has started the operational schedule for the first units of the Attivi Integral, an electric bus with chassis and bodywork developed by the brand. With an eye on the growing demand for electrification in public transportation, the company is starting to make its vehicles available for evaluation in different cities across the country.

Produced with the expertise of national engineering, the Marcopolo Attivi electric bus has different and adaptable configurations, according to the individual needs of the municipalities.

Marcopolo inicia operações com seu 1º ônibus elétrico 100% nacional

Serão disponibilizados 130 ônibus elétricos Marcopolo Attivi neste ano e até 1.000 unidades em 2024

insideevs.uol.com.br

View attachment 18080
View attachment 18081
View attachment 18082


Launched in late 2013, the e-Bus is the first Brazilian electric bus powered 100% by batteries.

The e-Bus is the result of a partnership with Brazilian companies. The vehicle features electric traction and integration technology from Eletra, a Caio e-Millennium body, WEG batteries and electric motors – all Brazilian companies – and a Mercedes-Benz and Scania chassis, manufactured in São Bernardo do Campo (SP).

Elétrico – Eletra

www.eletrabus.com.br

E-Bus 21,5m – articulado – Eletra

www.eletrabus.com.br

View attachment 18083

we chinese made ebilizing Mexcan can not do Blasilian can not do

@mod

This guy made racial attack and abusive graphic again and again during common discussion.

 

[rockdog]

How China’s buses shaped the world’s EV revolution​

...

China now boasts the world's largest market for e-buses, making up more than 95% of global stock. At the end of 2022, China's Ministry of Transport announced that more than three-quarters (77% or 542,600) of all urban buses in the country were "new energy vehicles", a term used by the Chinese government to include pure electric, plug-in hybrids, and fuel cell vehicles powered by alternative fuels such as hydrogen and methanol. In 2022, around 84% of the new energy bus fleet was pure electric.

...

How China’s buses shaped the world’s EV revolution

In the 2010s, China rolled out a rapid and widespread electric bus network. Today, China's electric buses are influencing not just the country's EV uptake, but the world's.

www.bbc.com

News in Sep 2024

BYD delivers 100 electric buses to Uruguayan bus operator Cutcsa​

BYD delivers 100 electric buses to Uruguayan bus operator Cutcsa

Cutcsa is the largest electric bus operator in Uruguay, which plans to fully electrify its fleet by 2040.

cnevpost.com

70,000 e-buses delivered by BYD worldwide (2.5% of them in Europe). 5.5 billion km covered​

70,000 e-buses delivered by BYD worldwide (2.5% of them in Europe). 5.5 billion km covered

70,000 electric buses delivered by BYD worldwide (only 2.5% in Europe). The Chinese giant has just announced the milestone

www.sustainable-bus.com

 

[E-195]

So electra is onwed by BYD? Is WEG owned by BYD? Yes when you can not win you right away say racist attack are you not chinese? Are you not from china?

 

[Azaad]

I want India's help in order to defeat US forces.

Please allow 150 AMCA to be sold to China

So you're admitting your J-20 & J-35 are sub standard Fighter Aircrafts or at any rate are over rated & no match for either the F-22 or the F-35 ? Good , that's a start.

China's export ban on some key materials was the reaction to US's new chip restriction.

Trump prefers to make deals than conflicts, i think his administration acutally would decrease the danger in
Taiwan strait.

All this pre supposes the US wants to co exist & share power with some other nation . When China can't share power or doesn't want an equal in Asia what makes you think the US would tolerate one in the world ? What was the cold war all about Xiao Pang ?

The core issue of conflict between big two, my POV is the US still couldn't accept another nation has same level of power, and hardly to accept the co-existence with it, i think we need around 10 yrs to make them to acceptance.

I don't think Great Helmsman 2.0 has that much time on his hands. If the internal situation within China doesn't force his hand thanks to Western sanctions , he'd anyway go in to "unify" Taiwan with the mainland.

I knew in last two yrs, your desire was waiting the war between China and USA. But even it happens, can Indian really benefit from it, or do you have ability to catch it?

Oh yes , we will. China isn't our existential threat. Paxtan & Bangladesh are . To sort them out we need to get China , the US , the EU & the Gulf Sheikhdoms along with Iran out of the way.

With the war in Ukraine & Chinese predatory business tactics , EU's economy is going down the drain. Whatever is left of it , internal divisions will take care of what with the massive legal & illegal immigration from Muslim nations they've experienced.

Whatever is left of the EU military power , Russia will handle after the current war in Ukraine reaches a Cease Fire for this is only the first installment. The next war between Russia & NATO will come soon over Ukraine once again after this brief interval. Russia will go down but we fully expect it to permanently damage EU along with it .

But for the final blow to the EU , the US needs to be taken down. That's where China comes in . Iran will in any case be taken care of by Israel & the US which leaves the Gulf Sheikhdoms out. The diminishing need for oil & gas given the many alternatives popping up will reduce their importance significantly .

That's the game plan & we'd see ALL those scenarios including DPRK vs Japan + RoK come true alongside of course China vs US + Taiwan + Japan + Australia + Philippines.

2000 mellienum bug and 1st wave of globalization, 2008 financial crisis, 2018 trade war between China and USA, all of them India didn't handle chances well.

Nope. It was merely China did better because you had a head start of more than a decade over us. As I've remarked earlier , the only two countries which have benefited the most from rearranging their economic policies in the past 4 decades have been China & India with China doing so more than a decade before India with India being where China was in 2004 more or less.

 

[rockdog]

Nope. It was merely China did better because you had a head start of more than a decade over us. As I've remarked earlier , the only two countries which have benefited the most from rearranging their economic policies in the past 4 decades have been China & India with China doing so more than a decade before India with India being where China was in 2004 more or less.

Well, for all the geopolitics issues, i didn't debate with anybody here for 3 yrs, since it's too complicated and there will be endless rounds, i will stop here.

the only two countries which have benefited the most from rearranging their economic policies in the past 4 decades have been China & India with China doing

75% agree (50% for there were only two winners, 25% for one winner is China)

I think the only two winners are USA and China. USA of course be the winner since the whole globalization framework was built by them.

For India, i can only say it's a so so score, something like 6.5 out 10. To itself it's OK, but not that impressed to me.

I always check the share of world's GPD, India acutally didn't more than doubled its share in last 30 yrs, if you considering other nations also gained good growth, like ex-cold war nations on CCCP side and ASEAN nations.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/ndias-share-in-world-GDP-and-trade_fig3_254439366

Now, most low hanging fruits like GST have done by Modi, will Modi have enough power and time to do further reforms on India like Deng Xiaoping to China, will be intresting to me.

 

[Azaad]

Well, for all the geopolitics issues, i didn't debate with anybody here for 3 yrs, since it's too complicated and there will be endless rounds, i will stop here.




75% agree (50% for there were only two winners, 25% for one winner is China)

I think the only two winners are USA and China. USA of course be the winner since the whole globalization framework was built by them.

For India, i can only say it's a so so score, something like 6.5 out 10. To itself it's OK, but not that impressed to me.

I always check the share of world's GPD, India acutally didn't more than doubled its share in last 30 yrs, if you considering other nations also gained good growth, like ex-cold war nations on CCCP side and ASEAN nations.

View attachment 18090

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/ndias-share-in-world-GDP-and-trade_fig3_254439366

Now, most low hanging fruits like GST have done by Modi, will Modi have enough power and time to do further reforms on India like Deng Xiaoping to China, will be intresting to me.

In order to make a proper comparison consider how much progress China would have made if it were a democracy . It the CCP didn't have it's way throwing people out of their lands once it was earmarked for a road or highway or expressway project or a dam or an airport , etc how much & how fast would you progress.

Also consider how much you'd progressed if you didn't have the Hukou system. You'd have millions rushing into Shanghai or Beijing with few moving into a Guangzhou when the reforms first kicked off in the 1980s.

How much would you progress if you didn't pollute more than 75% of your ground water especially given chemical industries which pollute more or now the rare earths industries whose refining is extremely polluting which is the reason the west didn't get into it & China's now taken the lead over the west.

Or the fact that in spite of having one of the most fertile soils in the world for millennia you're now a net food importer.

In fact even if you try all these things once again under the very same CCP you can't have a 10-12% growth. That was a once in a millenium or 2 millennia phenomenon. It's been done before first by the Japanese then by Taiwanese & later by the South Koreans . The only thing China did differently was the scale.

It's all very well to be proud of your achievements , quite another thing not to see the price you've paid for it.

 

[Azaad]

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/e5ExmpzgJjY?si=lQDozZKoS3iCURcN


View: https://youtube.com/shorts/SPJQ9WXzBOU?si=pMQUhIZNGJUfF2p5

Consider this case of real estate here where on the outskirts of Wuhan a Tier 2 city a 3 Bedroom Hall Kitchen apartment costed 225000 USD to buy but not rents for 250 USD per month making it 3000 USD per annum.

Now that's ridiculous. Standards for rent to purchase prices the world over is the rental rates have to be 3% or more per annum of the purchase price which in the above case means for a purchase price of 225000 USD , the annual rent should've been at least 6750 USD BUT is actually 3000 USD per annum which is HALF of the global standards which in turn means that property is twice over valued .

Why did this happen ? Because of the CCP need for growth & not enough avenues for investment , people invested in property & gold since people don't trust the stock market & the banks don't give you good returns on savings. Well now the real estate bubble has collapsed & people aren't getting a return on their investment.

Infact in this very case I doubt the buyer of this property will get even a third of what he / she invested into it. Just to put things into perspective the purchase price of the property depicted there was 225000 & the property is on the outskirts of Wuhan with no connectivity meaning no public transportation.

In the present circumstances , the landlord would be lucky to get 75000 USD on that property. Plus the property belongs to the state which they've technically leased out for 70 years to the ordinary citizen. Nobody knows what happens once that time period is up.

This is what happens when you grow too fast. You take short cuts make elementary mistakes & in the end all those sins & mistakes catch up with you . Remember that story of the hare & the tortoise. Well China's the hare here. No questions about it. You're ahead in the race by miles. Will you win it ? I don't think so.

 

[helin]

So you're admitting your J-20 & J-35 are sub standard Fighter Aircrafts or at any rate are over rated & no match for either the F-22 or the F-35 ? Good , that's a start.

F22, F35 are many years old models,

they are good but not terrible for PLA.

 

[helin]

View: https://youtube.com/shorts/e5ExmpzgJjY?si=lQDozZKoS3iCURcN


View: https://youtube.com/shorts/SPJQ9WXzBOU?si=pMQUhIZNGJUfF2p5

Consider this case of real estate here where on the outskirts of Wuhan a Tier 2 city a 3 Bedroom Hall Kitchen apartment costed 225000 USD to buy but not rents for 250 USD per month making it 3000 USD per annum.

Now that's ridiculous. Standards for rent to purchase prices the world over is the rental rates have to be 3% or more per annum of the purchase price which in the above case means for a purchase price of 225000 USD , the annual rent should've been at least 6750 USD BUT is actually 3000 USD per annum which is HALF of the global standards which in turn means that property is twice over valued .

Why did this happen ? Because of the CCP need for growth & not enough avenues for investment , people invested in property & gold since people don't trust the stock market & the banks don't give you good returns on savings. Well now the real estate bubble has collapsed & people aren't getting a return on their investment.

Infact in this very case I doubt the buyer of this property will get even a third of what he / she invested into it. Just to put things into perspective the purchase price of the property depicted there was 225000 & the property is on the outskirts of Wuhan with no connectivity meaning no public transportation.

In the present circumstances , the landlord would be lucky to get 75000 USD on that property. Plus the property belongs to the state which they've technically leased out for 70 years to the ordinary citizen. Nobody knows what happens once that time period is up.

This is what happens when you grow too fast. You take short cuts make elementary mistakes & in the end all those sins & mistakes catch up with you . Remember that story of the hare & the tortoise. Well China's the hare here. No questions about it. You're ahead in the race by miles. Will you win it ? I don't think so.

This is a market economy. You can make money or you can lose money. If Wuhan only relied on these, the economy would be unstable. However, Wuhan's manufacturing industry is very strong, and photoelectric technology is at the forefront of China.

 

[Azaad]

F22, F35 are many years old models,

they are good but not terrible for PLA.

The F -35 has been exported to more than a dozen countries . How many countries have you exported the J-20s to ?

This is a market economy. You can make money or you can lose money. If Wuhan only relied on these, the economy would be unstable. However, Wuhan's manufacturing industry is very strong, and photoelectric technology is at the forefront of China.

China IS NOT a market economy. You don't have provinces having shadow banks in a market economy apart from state controlled banks.

Besides who said anything about manufacturing ? I was referring to investment opportunities for the ordinary Chinese citizen. Except for property & gold he / she has no other avenues to invest which is the reason most Chinese who can are investing outside China.

 

[helin]

The F -35 has been exported to more than a dozen countries . How many countries have you exported the J-20s to ?

China IS NOT a market economy. You don't have provinces having shadow banks in a market economy apart from state controlled banks.

Besides who said anything about manufacturing ? I was referring to investment opportunities for the ordinary Chinese citizen. Except for property & gold he / she has no other avenues to invest which is the reason most Chinese who can are investing outside China.

What are the investment channels for ordinary Indian residents

 

[Azaad]

What are the investment channels for ordinary Indian residents

Are we discussing the Indian economy here or the Chinese economy ? Why's it every time you guys are exposed you get defensive & start referring to India ? Shouldn't you be comparing yourself to the US ?

On topic , there's the stock market with equity , debentures , derivatives , options & mutual funds. Have you heard of them ? Then there are savings in banks , fixed deposits , recurring deposits & other bank saving mechanisms . There's insurance & postal savings in addition. There's property & gold .

Any Indian citizen can invest in these in India & in foreign markets as well ? Does the ordinary Chinese enjoy this freedom ? If not why not ? After all you're a USD surplus country .