CI/CT Operations

[lexCommando]

In Jammu, you already won most locals, Govt just need to Arm the loyal locals. And they'll gladly take care of the problem.

Nah situation ain't like 90s and 2000s anymore.. politics has affected the gujjar-bakkarwal and army relation.. not to say the recent miscommunications on both side. I'll just say their are some defective pieces which are being exploited by terrorists now

 

[Jedi Operator]

Btw members of this thread should check this up...it has all operations in Op Rakshak till now. No SF units have been named but all Ops are mentioned:

Here's the link

Timeline Terrorist Activities, Jammu & Kashmir

 

[Anants]

Nah situation ain't like 90s and 2000s anymore.. politics has affected the gujjar-bakkarwal and army relation.. not to say the recent miscommunications on both side. I'll just say their are some defective pieces which are being exploited by terrorists now

its not politics but radicalization. Same thing is creeping in hp gujjars too..

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Firstly stop thinking that MARCOS has basic training to do these ops.
How do you define 'basic training' ?
MARCOS get basic training during their selection course. First phase is combat diving, second phase is land warfare and third phase is simialr to SQTs in SEAL teams if simply put. Over the course of their career they develop advanced land warfare skills. Before going to Kashmir they do a 2-month predeployment training up in the mountains, they might choose to go to HAWS or to SFTS with Army SF, I really dont know but from interviews like of MARCO Joginder Singh and Ravi Kulkarni they did go from their unit for a time period up north to trian with Paras. Mr Kukkarni said they trained with 9 Para before their actually going to Kashmir.

Also the team that goes for a deployment in Kashmir spends more time practicing land warfare and learning from years and years of operations than the rest. That is just pure comman sense of how they would be able to operate well despite being a naval unit. The SEAL teams did that, the SBS did that. Everybody does pre-deployment trianing specific to their area of operations

Its not me who called them having basic training.

As far as these kind of ops go it is pretty similar to going on LRPs which Marcos dont do.

The op you quoted about is near to Sopore which comes under their area of deployment.

What i am saying is that i dont see either Para or Marcos finish these kind of ops in dense forests which involves chasing terrorists and hunting them down for days like the golden days of Para in 90s and 2000s.

 

[KumaoniReborn]

7 terrorists shot. No casualties to own troops. Gunfights in waist deep snow. This was the level of indian infantry in the 90s.

 

[Jedi Operator]

Its not me who called them having basic training.

As far as these kind of ops go it is pretty similar to going on LRPs which Marcos dont do.

The op you quoted about is near to Sopore which comes under their area of deployment.

What i am saying is that i dont see either Para or Marcos finish these kind of ops in dense forests which involves chasing terrorists and hunting them down for days like the golden days of Para in 90s and 2000s.

I get your view on that being under their 'area of operations'
But my point was that MARCOS have experience fighting in dense forests and tracking the enemy. MARCOS do LRPs, Praveen Teotia mentioned that in Nimrith Thakur's podcast. Major Nimrith being in a Para unit you'd think would go for longer ops but he said they only went for 1-2 days. MARCOS did search operations for 3-4 sometimes 5 days. Ofc 9 Para had that as it's hunting ground and was walking around the same area for a month also. That I agree Paras back then were absolute hunters of the soil.
I dont know why you said that MARCOS dont do LRPs, it's very certain that any SF unit would train for them. Be it the 'best' ones

 

[KumaoniReborn]

IA Generals of the 90s had more serious modernization ideas than current gernails.

For example, Gen Ved Malik requested a higher defense budget to invest in Bullet Proof Jackets, standardize monotube NVGs, and better rifles. The Government denied it as they claimed economy was too low. There are maganizes back in 99 depicting F-isnas, the very f-isnas that army thinks is still relevant 20 years later.

 

[KumaoniReborn]

Turkish commanders were getting eliminated by Indian army back then.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I get your view on that being under their 'area of operations'
But my point was that MARCOS have experience fighting in dense forests and tracking the enemy. MARCOS do LRPs, Praveen Teotia mentioned that in Nimrith Thakur's podcast. Major Nimrith being in a Para unit you'd think would go for longer ops but he said they only went for 1-2 days. MARCOS did search operations for 3-4 sometimes 5 days. Ofc 9 Para had that as it's hunting ground and was walking around the same area for a month also. That I agree Paras back then were absolute hunters of the soil.
I dont know why you said that MARCOS dont do LRPs, it's very certain that any SF unit would train for them. Be it the 'best' ones

I am not aware of Marcos going for LRPs anywhere be in Kashmir or NE.

I know for a fact Ghataks do LRP even deep inside China.

 

[Jedi Operator]

I am not aware of Marcos going for LRPs anywhere be in Kashmir or NE.

I know for a fact Ghataks do LRP even deep inside China.

Alright but remember Col Awadhesh writing about a long range patrol conducted by MARCOS with the goal of searching parts of a downed Pakistani recon plane which crossed India. MARCOS went deep as far into Pakistan for that matter. I think he was referring to Flight Atlantic-91 incident.

Encounter of the first kind – MARCOS and 9 SF | Indian Politics

www.indianpolitics.co.in

 

[Jedi Operator]

View attachment 5527


Turkish commanders were getting eliminated by Indian army back then.

golden days my man. Pure golden!

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

View attachment 5527


Turkish commanders were getting eliminated by Indian army back then.

Ikhni Nala used to be a deadly crossing route for terrorists back then.

 

[lexCommando]

As far as these kind of ops go it is pretty similar to going on LRPs which Marcos dont do.

I'll have to find the photo again but I think marcos does participate in LRPs along with PSF (maybe the teams stationed in kashmir only)

 

[KumaoniReborn]

golden days my man. Pure golden!

Jagarpora Encounter. Brigade level encounter which saw elimination of 16 hardcore foreign terrorists including Iranians.

View: https://x.com/vjswriter/status/1556872175935975425?s=46

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Jagarpora Encounter. Brigade level encounter which saw elimination of 16 hardcore foreign terrorists including Iranians.

View: https://x.com/vjswriter/status/1556872175935975425?s=46

In mid 90s these terrorists from Sudan or Turk or idk chechen were seriously experimenting with solar triggered missiles and cyanide tip arrows.

A big hideout was busted and i think some 20-25 militants were killed after that.

 

[Suryavanshi]

Focus should be on improving our chances against enemies. This console war can wait.

 

[KumaoniReborn]

In mid 90s these terrorists from Sudan or Turk or idk chechen were seriously experimenting with solar triggered missiles and cyanide tip arrows.

A big hideout was busted and i think some 20-25 militants were killed after that.

If u look at infantry battalions kill record in their tenure, from mid 90s- mid 00s, you’ll find that the tally was 50-70% sometimes been 90% foreign militants.

 

[KumaoniReborn]

“Clearing these high-altitude hideouts would mean a large-scale offensive in the mountains: an enterprise involving more troops than the Srinagar-based XV Corps and Nagrota-based XVI have readily available. Although critics ofIndia's counter-terrorism posture in J&K often represent the state as a garrison, the reality is somewhat less dramatic. Of the 337,000 Indian troops in J&K, almost half are committed to counter-infiltration and defensive tasks along thestate's frontiers with Pakistan and China. Another 100,000 are tied up by administrative duties and the enormous logistical chain which links the Himalayas with the plains, leaving only 80,000 troops free for counter-terrorist operations--a force roughly the same size as the J&K Police.”

A little more perspective on why cutting manpower was a strategic failure on the parrr of the Indian Army upper brass

 

[Blademaster]

“Clearing these high-altitude hideouts would mean a large-scale offensive in the mountains: an enterprise involving more troops than the Srinagar-based XV Corps and Nagrota-based XVI have readily available. Although critics ofIndia's counter-terrorism posture in J&K often represent the state as a garrison, the reality is somewhat less dramatic. Of the 337,000 Indian troops in J&K, almost half are committed to counter-infiltration and defensive tasks along thestate's frontiers with Pakistan and China. Another 100,000 are tied up by administrative duties and the enormous logistical chain which links the Himalayas with the plains, leaving only 80,000 troops free for counter-terrorist operations--a force roughly the same size as the J&K Police.”

A little more perspective on why cutting manpower was a strategic failure on the parrr of the Indian Army upper brass

Not really. It means that the IA has really been inefficient and not updating their operational art unlike other modern armies.

 

[KumaoniReborn]

Not really. It means that the IA has really been inefficient and not updating their operational art unlike other modern armies.

You can’t implement the american game plan halfway and then. expect to have results. Cut the manpower sure but at the very least send in the airforce, using Combined Arms Warfare in own territory, etc. The result of this half assing modernizing attempt is causing huge gaps in our poonch rajouri sectors.