DRDO and PSU's

Satish Sharma Ji said:
You forgot goal shifting requirements changing
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Well, cheaper loitering munitions/drones who can do either surveillance or attack or both are present.
What benefit will archer provide?
These atgm's or any standoff weapon archer will carry will not be cheaper than those drones, so the reuse factor of archer is not more economical.

And archer will be quite vunrable just like turkish bayraktar, but at the same time more expensive loss than loitering drones/munitions if it gets shot down.

And instead of archer carring 2 standoff munitions, two or more separate loitering munitions are more survivable

The only advantage can think of is long loitering time of 12+ hours.
But we are already working on much larger rustom, archer ng for long endurance surveillance.
And they both can be used in armed mode in secondary roles


So, in this new age is there any significant benefit it can provide for its induction?

Like ukraine stopped using bayraktar drones long ago.


and neither russian korsar and Chinese ch92a which are analogues of archer mk1 are in service with either country, especially russia which has been engaged in war for 3+ years.

Even when these drones completeted testing years ago.
 
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randombully said:
Well, cheaper loitering munitions/drones who can do either surveillance or attack or both are present.
What benefit will archer provide?
These atgm's or any standoff weapon archer will carry will not be cheaper than those drones, so the reuse factor of archer is not more economical.

And archer will be quite vunrable just like turkish bayraktar, but at the same time more expensive loss than loitering drones/munitions if it gets shot down.

And instead of archer carring 2 standoff munitions, two or more separate loitering munitions are more survivable

The only advantage can think of is long loitering time of 12+ hours.
But we are already working on much larger rustom, archer ng for long endurance surveillance.
And they both can be used in armed mode in secondary roles


So, in this new age is there any significant benefit it can provide for its induction?

Like ukraine stopped using bayraktar drones long ago.
Click to expand...
The things is it will be cheaper than archers ng. It can be used for isr role for 12hrs. It is simpler and much larger no. Can be produced in short span.
It should be inducted in descent numbers. Instead of using expensive mpatgm. Ulpgm variants need to be integrated with it. Which will make it a viable platform.

Pakistanis also have similar kind of drone quite same design too. They have integrated weapons like ulpgm or like kornet (on steroids)
Something called bark a 45kg laser guided surface to air missile.
This overall is a very cost effective solution. Atleast few hundred should be inducted by army
More importantly I think bsf should Induct them. For patrolling bangladesh border.

I am having gut feeling that armenia might induct it. It's perfect for them. If above options are explored + mpatgm
 
Satish Sharma Ji said:
The things is it will be cheaper than archers ng. It can be used for isr role for 12hrs. It is simpler and much larger no. Can be produced in short span.
It should be inducted in descent numbers. Instead of using expensive mpatgm. Ulpgm variants need to be integrated with it. Which will make it a viable platform.

Pakistanis also have similar kind of drone quite same design too. They have integrated weapons like ulpgm or like kornet (on steroids)
Something called bark a 45kg laser guided surface to air missile.
This overall is a very cost effective solution. Atleast few hundred should be inducted by army
More importantly I think bsf should Induct them. For patrolling bangladesh border.

I am having gut feeling that armenia might induct it. It's perfect for them. If above options are explored + mpatgm
Click to expand...
For surveillance role, Below is the pic of russian orlan 30, which has endurance of 8 hours, and very cheap compared to archer mk1.
A Slightly bigger version with foldable wings can be made to easily increase surveillance 12+hours.
Plus unlike archer mk1, it's tactical can be deployed on front lines, doesn't need runway.
Can provide target for artillary along with surveillance.
The only thing it can't do is carry, launch and guide weapons which archer m1 can.
But that aspect itself is under question with the emergence of long range suicide/loitering drones.
And as said before, archer mk1 type drone flying low( need to for armed role, to get traget acquisition) are very vunrable as proved in ukraine war.
ADEX24-Orlan-30.webp0x0.webp
And orlan 30 type drones and loitering suicide drones are even cheaper than archers mk1, can be used by soldiers on front lines without runway, and can be mass produced even more easily.
Ulpgm has only few km range, archer mk1 will need a safe airspace to use it or very vunrable to short range/point defense air defense.

Yup, countries like pakistan and bangladesh do use these types of drones
But countries like china, Russia and even ukraine don't.
And as Said before both china and russia biult prototypes and tested them.

Especially russia and ukraine, who in their drone intensive conflict chose not not use these types of drones.
Instead combination of orlan 30 type drones and loitering munitions type drones are used.
 
Patriots said:
Actually these things get proven with sruav that...now drdo can do these things with a larger weapons with larger birds
I mean with archer ng , and tapas integrated with helina ..may be some day sant like atgms
Click to expand...

yes, but ultimately success is measured in how many will get inducted.
 
I have a question. Requesting answer from anyone with a clue.

From F-117 to our stealth UAVs & Chinky 6th gen fighter, noone has proper planeform edge alignment like F-22. So how does that work for stealth aircrafts?.. I thought wing angles needed to match.
j1596tui97yz.webp29f49b87-6998-48ca-86c8-bbefdeade793.webp481299458_953075540303737_3825748606687149061_n.webp
 
Bleh said:
I have a question. Requesting answer from anyone with a clue.

From F-117 to our stealth UAVs & Chinky 6th gen fighter, noone has proper planeform edge alignment like F-22. So how does that work for stealth aircrafts?.. I thought wing angles needed to match.
View attachment 27249View attachment 27250View attachment 27251
Click to expand...
F117, flying wings, j36 etc has single large continous wing surface.
And if you looks at wings of all three the angle remains the same so it is scattering the radar wave away from the sender's direction into a narrow lobes on both sides of aircraft.

The f22 wings have same single continous surface which remains at same angle.
Now f22's horizontal tails having same angle as f22's wings ( edge alignment) so they scatter the radar waves in same direction As it's wings into a single lobe on either sides, these measures concentrates the scattering of radar waves into less over all area, as less concentrated scattering away from sender means somewhat higher percentage of scattered waves can make it back to the same direction.
Now it doesn't mean only two lobes exist on either side of f22, the slanted vertical tails of f22 while also somewhat aligned, will not scatter the waves completely into the same direction.
But as said before edge alignment is used to concentrate scattered radar waves into as few lobes as possible, kind of like " funneling" the waves into only certain directions.

Now back to j36, f117, ghatak.
1,They don't have a separate horizontal tail.
2, they are edge aligned.

You can also see this in other flying wings like b2, b21, neuron, othonik.
All have wing that maintains same angle throughout.
And only 1 exception exist in flying wing design which is x47b, it was designed for naval role, so the edges of its wings we're further extended for better slow speed handling, for landing on carrier.
Now this does increase the directions the radar waves scatter and will lead to some increase in rcs, but with good geometry the increased can me minimized.
Like even in stealth jets, nose area has narrow angle than wing( even though these are also somewhat aligned)X-47B_operating_in_the_Atlantic_Test_Range_(modified).webp
 
Bleh said:
I have a question. Requesting answer from anyone with a clue.

From F-117 to our stealth UAVs & Chinky 6th gen fighter, noone has proper planeform edge alignment like F-22. So how does that work for stealth aircrafts?.. I thought wing angles needed to match.
View attachment 27249View attachment 27250View attachment 27251
Click to expand...
I had seen a documentary of northrop where they said they achieved stealth with not just edge alignment but also with CURVED SURFACES such that radar waves doesn't bounce back instead scatter away. I think the documentary was abt tacit blue technology demonstrater which was equivalent to have blue which was further developed into f117.
The tacit blue achieved stealth with curved surface unlike f117 which was basis for b2 spirit and later yf23. The chin of yf23. They had also said indirectly yf23 was more stealthier than yf22.
 
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