Future Main Battle Tank & NGMBT

[Blood+]

You do know your GOD LEVEL Challenger 2 tank that is winning war in Ukraine too don't have that.

Only if you're LazerPig, LMAO. And guess what?? Arjun has far FAR worse armor protection than even the Challenger 2 as well.

The blow out panels which you all love so much.

And what kind of a brain dead logic is that?? Just because another dude sucks at something, somehow that makes it perfectly acceptable for me to suck at that as well??!!

 

[Aaj Ka Hero]

Only if you're LazerPig, LMAO. And guess what?? Arjun has far FAR worse armor protection than even the Challenger 2 as well.

That's another diarrhea product of too much listening to western so called channels whose tanks are getting ass-kicked in Ukraine and not reading from beginning the DFI thread on Arjun.

And I can again report you too to admins for Aaj ka Clown meme but I know I am dealing with KID.

 

[Blood+]

That's another diarrhea product of too much listening to western so called channels whose tanks are getting ass-kicked in Ukraine and not reading from beginning the DFI thread on Arjun.

Sigh... At least try to make some sense when you decide to reply to someone.

 

[karn]

You do know your GOD LEVEL Challenger 2 tank that is winning war in Ukraine too don't have blow out panels and there are pill boxes on the sides of Hitomaru tank turret too, another God level tank that you guys will love.

GOD LEVEL Challenger 2 was also used as justification for the rifled gun on the arjun lol.

 

[Aaj Ka Hero]

GOD LEVEL Challenger 2 was also used as justification for the rifled gun on the arjun lol.

Okay!

It is there that I had the good fortune to meet Gen Israel Tal (the famous Israel Armor Commander). It was during this meeting he gave me some advice which became my strategic for the ARJUN Project development. Let me quote this conversation verbatim as under: –

“Gen I am informed that you are handling the Tank project for India if so, let me give you some advice from my experience of making our MARKAVA Tank. Never attempt to make a PERFECT TANK."

From here, do read it, and if read in past, read it again and try to understand.

THE ARJUN TANK SAGA | Salute

The first and the only MBT that India has ventured to produce and operationalise-The Arjun tanks- have a long and eventful history behind it.

salute.co.in

 

[Blood+]

GOD LEVEL Challenger 2 was also used as justification for the rifled gun on the arjun lol.

It was their experience with the Centurions, that prompted the IA to opt for a rifled gun but yeah, it's pretty moot in the grand scheme of things. Just thought I should mention it for the record.

 

[karn]

It was their experience with the Centurions, that prompted the IA to opt for a rifled gun but yeah, it's pretty moot in the grand scheme of things. Just thought I should mention it for the record.

I meant the forum walas.. Whos line of argument boiled down to "This tank is good and has X this and arjun has the same so it must be good.
I am uninterested in re hashing these almost decade old points. Right now the germans don't have the engine for the arjun so even that token number of mk2s are not getting built. So arguing anything is moot.

 

[Blood+]

I meant the forum walas.. Whos line of argument boiled down to "This tank is good and has X this and arjun has the same so it must be good.
I am uninterested in re hashing these almost decade old points. Right now the germans don't have the engine for the arjun so even that token number of mk2s are not getting built. So arguing anything is moot.

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. In that case, you were 40000 percent on point.

 

[Aaj Ka Hero]

There are some guys out here who think they have learned about Arjun more than even the Liason officers who were with Arjun tank development when it development started.

And please don't come with "just because he is in Army and high ranking officer doesn't mean a thing", yeah, your thinking is important.
His points in his article which is written after a long time when Arjun tank project was finally over per se is not important, right? Atleast for History read it.

For those lots, please do again read this.

THE ARJUN TANK SAGA | Salute

The first and the only MBT that India has ventured to produce and operationalise-The Arjun tanks- have a long and eventful history behind it.

salute.co.in

 

[Bleh]

I got banned on DFI for pointing out that Arjun is pretty shit .. mind you this was of Arjun without the blowout panels and that meme level apfsds it had at the time.

Arjun Mark 1 was pretty oversized & crudely designed... but so was Merkava Mk1.
There was no need for so much extra shit to be hurled. All will were banned were banned for how they were making their points, not what the points were.

 

[Blood+]

Arjun Mark 1 was pretty oversized & crudely designed... but so was Merkava Mk1.

But the thing is, the Israelis actually learned from their mistakes and kept addressing the shortcomings throughout the successive trenches which finally culminated into the now awesome Merkava Mk4M; something which never came about in Arjun's case and that's where all the contention lies - that we, as a people, are so averse to admit to our failures, let alone work towards learning from and finally rectifying them. A lot of us just refuse to learn from our mistakes, there by missing out on the chance to grow from them.
Oh and what, the MkIA is NOT crudely designed as per you??!! Don't tell me that you actually believe that.

There was no need for so much extra shit to be hurled.

There was very serious need for it in light of all the made up bs that were flying around, which often times rose to the point of blatant and unadulterated lies. All things considered, we didn't lambast it hard enough, as those same misleading made up bs is still going rampant to this day.

All will were banned were banned for how they were making their points, not what the points were.

Ummm.... not really, not for me anyway. I got banned primarily because of the owner of that GodOfParadoxes handle on X. Somehow, my pointing out the shortcomings of this utter travesty of a tank rubbed him the wrong way and he jumped in guns blazing, to defend the honor of the nation or something, it got heated in no time, one thing led to the other and ezsasa handed me that ban for insulting a reputable member (which was just me calling him a shriveled up mummy AFAIK), while completely disregarding all the vitriol and ad hominem he had hurled at me.

Fun fact, up until that point, the guy didn't even know what a NATO triple heavy target actually meant, LMAO!!

But you should remember all that, you were present right there. Heck, it was you who later advised me not to repeat the same once I had come back!!

 

[Blood+]

There are some guys out here who think they have learned about Arjun more than even the Liason officers who were with Arjun tank development when it development started.

And please don't come with "just because he is in Army and high ranking officer doesn't mean a thing", yeah, your thinking is important.
His points in his article which is written after a long time when Arjun tank project was finally over per se is not important, right? Atleast for History read it.

For those lots, please do again read this.

THE ARJUN TANK SAGA | Salute

The first and the only MBT that India has ventured to produce and operationalise-The Arjun tanks- have a long and eventful history behind it.

salute.co.in

I had come across this article when it had come out, but I gave it another read at your insistence but failed to find anything that'd actually dispel our concerns regarding the serious flaws in the overall base design of Arjun.

 

[Aaj Ka Hero]

I had come across this article when it had come out, but I gave it another read at your insistence but failed to find anything that'd actually dispel our concerns regarding the serious flaws in the overall base design of Arjun.

Well, my conclusion was something else.
But, you have every right to have a different opinion. So, let's end it there.

 

[Tridev123]

A lot of arguments being thrown around.

The pro Russian lobby saying that the Arjun tank in whatever avatar whether mk1,mk1a or mk2 is nothing but shit.

In contrast the pro US/Western lobby batting strongly for the viability of the Arjun platform.

No doubt, the Russians would like India to continue to import Russian tanks like the T72,T90 and the Armata.Subsidise the tank production units there. Actually after the collapse of the Soviet Union it was Indian orders which prevented the major tank design and production units in Russia from going bankrupt and shutting down.

(We ordered more Su30 planes from Russia surpassing at one time even the numbers in the Russian Air Force. )

Yes,both stood to gain.There is no doubt that Soviet/Russian weapons helped India maintain it's territorial integrity and largely independent foreign policy.

We are grateful but the India of today believes that it is capable of much more. We want to design our own weapons and manufacture them and not be perpetually dependent on imports. Whether from Russia or the West.

Coming to the Arjun, yes the Germans probably gave us some 1st generation Leopold tank technology. The engine is German along with the transmission system. There could be other European systems integrated into the tank. The import content in the Arjun should be calculated on volume and value basis.

It is true that the US and its allies would like India to dump all Russian weapons and replace Russian tanks with Arjun or it's derivatives. An selfish objective.

Yes,two lobbies trying to guard their turf.

But the central question is
' Should India design it's own tank and manufacture it'

Aren't we an big enough industrial power to dream of having an fully indigenous capable tank.

Considering our present scientific and industrial capability, maybe some external help is needed.

So,

Now the Russians can help us to realize that dream or leave the field open for the West.

Yes,the West is helping us on the Arjun project for it's own selfish reasons.

But why are the Russians intent on keeping India as a client state. Why not empower us in advanced design technology be it tanks,ships, submarines or fighter aircraft. Including sharing the production technology.

No doubt that the Soviet Union/Russia shared quite a lot of technology but they did not make India capable of independently designing and manufacturing advanced weapons. An invisible red line was drawn and not all technologies were shared.

I think almost 100% of Indians will support an fully indigenous tank development effort.

Whether we call it by the name Arjun or not.

The national objective of having our own tank cannot be faulted.We neither need Russian nor American tanks.

Probably we might not be able to match the best Western or Russian tanks as of today. But an effort has to be made to develop an largely acceptable indigenous tank.

The tank can be improved in successive iterations.