Indian Air Force: News & Discussions (51 Viewers)

[ArjunMK1A]

It’s all internal sabotage......always has been. If you're sitting on a $15 billion budget (IAF) and still find yourself in such a pathetic position, then honestly, nothing can be done here. Period..........Just look at the numbers.......for the price of the last major fighter jet deal, nearly ₹59,000 crore, you could’ve bought around 140 Su-30MKIs at ₹450 crore apiece.......Sure, it’s not a perfect comparison different capabilities, different roles but it highlights how absurd the planning and priorities have been...........The problem isn't funding, it's the complete lack of strategic clarity, accountability, and execution.......... Decision-making is paralyzed, indigenous programs are suffocated, and imported "prestige buys" take precedence over actual capability building............ If this isn’t sabotage from within bureaucratic, procedural, and political then what is ?

IAF purchases were always have political influence. Started from Rajiv Gandhi swedish fetish and then followed by entire Indian Political spectrum (Congress & BJP) coming together to support then Russian factory in Irkutsk, based on the request from Boris Yeltsin.

So in both the scenarios the victim is Mirage 2000. Rajiv Gandhi was screwing up with Saab Viggen and when IAF was going forward with Mirage 2000 orders, we as country decided to help Russians by ordering the SU30 MK which later become MKI.

So, SU30 came in 1999-2000 and then our MMRCA drama started in 2006 and ends up in one of the worst negotiations/mudslinging and then finally G2G in 2015 which is the first purchase after SU 30. Solid 15 years drama.

Now 30 years post SU30 purchase, what considered an non requirement at that time becomes the need of the hour for IAF.

An SU 30 MKI

1. Can carry huge armament in its arsenal. Approx 8.3 tonnes.
2. Can carry 10 Astra MK1
3. Can carry an A for stand off Strikes.
4. Can carry atleast 5+ CATS Hunter for standoff strikes similar to SCALP.
5. Can Launch ALBM like Rudram 3.
6. Being an Twin seater, Apt candidate for Combat Teaming systems like CATS, NSRT Abhimanyu.

Going to its capability, Rafale, MWF, Tejas MK1A and AMCA can't hold candle for the munitions this Ivan is carrying.


But surprisingly IAF is reluctant to order additional aircrafts to increase its numbers. The only answer for this either the cost of maintenance is high and that AL31 is made up of WAX and need constant MTBO. But the situation is basically you are without aircraft against you are with an aircraft with high maintenance/poor MTBO. They should have chosen the latter. But they are not doing anything for the platform which time and again proves highly versatile.

Choinese pretty much have 1000 flankers alone, LOL. USAF have around 500 F15 variants. Meanwhile we are OK with 272 SU 30 MKI.

We should have invested a lot of money on this platform and also it is good time to replace the construction from TI-AL to Composite body which we done for Tejas. Composites will give an lighter aircraft, better with RCS.

But changing to Composite mean the aircraft is officially an new plane and HAL needs to get certification from CEMILAC itself. Also, we may end up with J16 Scenario. But chinaman company Shenyang is ready to provide assurance and done the due diligence. HAL should do the same, since it has been 20+ years after you got ToT for the product.

Additional SU 30 MKI will be useful, when we can change few squadrons into EW planes. Extra planes mean we can take on PLAAF well in Tibet theatre.

But instead we are in the situation where IAF collectively looks clueless and struggles to get on par with PAF which is a shame when you are going against PLAAF.

Also MOD's consistent behavior of cost cutting when you are clearly don't have alternatives is a concern.

View: https://x.com/KSingh_1469/status/1936737252920398178

Thoughts of y'all nibbiars

C-295 is ideal replacement for An-32

It has more payload capacity than the an-32 and also a rear ramp door

View attachment 41410

Will be produced in India and is already ordered so repeat order would be easier rather than jhamela of new tender

I would prefer the C-390 from Embraer but since it can carry LT Zorawar

We should streamline this transport saga.

1. AN32 >>>> C295 (Manufactured in India)
2. C130J + C390 (Embraer is ready for manufacturing in India, get those guys since you are in so called BRICS and you are fiddling around) or C130J factory with same TASL
3. IL76, C17 >>>>> C17 (Boeing is reopening the factory and dangle the carrot with Trump and get the orders for it).

Just C295, C130J, C390 and C17 is enough.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Yeah, also future awacs, ISTAR, even Current P8i can perform lots of function of EW planes.
What we need would be a comjam jet( with other multipurpose functions too, signit, elnit, relay node, command node etc)

Google Image Result for https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOs-EJ2aAAIKGEC.jpg

COMJAM platform file is in MOD File cabinet, looks like Airbus trying to do money minting and MOD babus were counting beans.

 

[shade2]

IAF purchases were always have political influence. Started from Rajiv Gandhi swedish fetish and then followed by entire Indian Political spectrum (Congress & BJP) coming together to support then Russian factory in Irkutsk, based on the request from Boris Yeltsin.

So in both the scenarios the victim is Mirage 2000. Rajiv Gandhi was screwing up with Saab Viggen and when IAF was going forward with Mirage 2000 orders, we as country decided to help Russians by ordering the SU30 MK which later become MKI.

So, SU30 came in 1999-2000 and then our MMRCA drama started in 2006 and ends up in one of the worst negotiations/mudslinging and then finally G2G in 2015 which is the first purchase after SU 30. Solid 15 years drama.

Now 30 years post SU30 purchase, what considered an non requirement at that time becomes the need of the hour for IAF.

An SU 30 MKI

1. Can carry huge armament in its arsenal. Approx 8.3 tonnes.
2. Can carry 10 Astra MK1
3. Can carry an A for stand off Strikes.
4. Can carry atleast 5+ CATS Hunter for standoff strikes similar to SCALP.
5. Can Launch ALBM like Rudram 3.
6. Being an Twin seater, Apt candidate for Combat Teaming systems like CATS, NSRT Abhimanyu.

Going to its capability, Rafale, MWF, Tejas MK1A and AMCA can't hold candle for the munitions this Ivan is carrying.


But surprisingly IAF is reluctant to order additional aircrafts to increase its numbers. The only answer for this either the cost of maintenance is high and that AL31 is made up of WAX and need constant MTBO. But the situation is basically you are without aircraft against you are with an aircraft with high maintenance/poor MTBO. They should have chosen the latter. But they are not doing anything for the platform which time and again proves highly versatile.

Choinese pretty much have 1000 flankers alone, LOL. USAF have around 500 F15 variants. Meanwhile we are OK with 272 SU 30 MKI.

We should have invested a lot of money on this platform and also it is good time to replace the construction from TI-AL to Composite body which we done for Tejas. Composites will give an lighter aircraft, better with RCS.

But changing to Composite mean the aircraft is officially an new plane and HAL needs to get certification from CEMILAC itself. Also, we may end up with J16 Scenario. But chinaman company Shenyang is ready to provide assurance and done the due diligence. HAL should do the same, since it has been 20+ years after you got ToT for the product.

Additional SU 30 MKI will be useful, when we can change few squadrons into EW planes. Extra planes mean we can take on PLAAF well in Tibet theatre.

But instead we are in the situation where IAF collectively looks clueless and struggles to get on par with PAF which is a shame when you are going against PLAAF.

Also MOD's consistent behavior of cost cutting when you are clearly don't have alternatives is a concern.




We should streamline this transport saga.

1. AN32 >>>> C295 (Manufactured in India)
2. C130J + C390 (Embraer is ready for manufacturing in India, get those guys since you are in so called BRICS and you are fiddling around) or C130J factory with same TASL
3. IL76, C17 >>>>> C17 (Boeing is reopening the factory and dangle the carrot with Trump and get the orders for it).

Just C295, C130J, C390 and C17 is enough.

Thanks for the chronology,
It's either the UN Import Marshalls have been bought by Dassault.
Or Govt is too scared of offending the US and being hit by CAATSA if we buy more Su30MKI.

ofc it could also be chindipan and religious belief in "today is not the era of war"

 

[South Block]

They need to seriously dismantle that F-35 sitting at an Indian tarmac.....The most advanced fighter jet ever built , packed with cutting-edge stealth, sensor fusion, electronic warfare, and networking tech landed right on our soil, and we didn’t even take a proper look......This isn’t just another Western aircraft.....this is fifth-gen gold.......a platform that Russia and China would pay billions just to study up close.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

They need to seriously dismantle that F-35 sitting at an Indian tarmac.....The most advanced fighter jet ever built , packed with cutting-edge stealth, sensor fusion, electronic warfare, and networking tech landed right on our soil, and we didn’t even take a proper look......This isn’t just another Western aircraft.....this is fifth-gen gold.......a platform that Russia and China would pay billions just to study up close.

Cutting edge and bro decided to stay in Commie state for Monsoon season.


I am pretty sure that when UK comes to pick the plane, our Kerala Commies will ask for Nokku kooli for sitting outside the airport protecting the F35.

 

[Spitfire IX]

They need to seriously dismantle that F-35 sitting at an Indian tarmac.....The most advanced fighter jet ever built , packed with cutting-edge stealth, sensor fusion, electronic warfare, and networking tech landed right on our soil, and we didn’t even take a proper look......This isn’t just another Western aircraft.....this is fifth-gen gold.......a platform that Russia and China would pay billions just to study up close.

UK might see things differently. US definitely.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Thanks for the chronology,
It's either the UN Import Marshalls have been bought by Dassault.
Or Govt is too scared of offending the US and being hit by CAATSA if we buy more Su30MKI.

ofc it could also be chindipan and religious belief in "today is not the era of war"

Rafale chooran is so scary that till now we could not even integrate an Astra MK1 on single Rafale. I am all for 114 Rafale for MRFA. But does the Rafales can be integrated with Indian Weapons like Astra MK1, 2, 3. NG, CATS Hunter, Gaurav, Gautam, LACM Air variant, Rudram series. If yes, we are good to go. If not then boom we have 114 jet in your inventory which does not support any Indian weapons and we need to maintain separate weaponry of French origin.

SU30MKI decision is simply due to Rafale coming vro, coming vro. Also HAL Babus were shady liars. Their constant overpromise and under delivery is screwed up IAF.

That is the reason MWF itself should be given to another Lead Integrator. Lets build an 4.5th Gen manufactrer before going into AMCA. But GOI is moving with AMCA project. And for sake of god, do not give to HAL again.

PSLV tender basically went to HAL (One PSU to another PSU), while proudly bangle breaking first Private company PSLV bro.

 

[shade2]

They need to seriously dismantle that F-35 sitting at an Indian tarmac.....The most advanced fighter jet ever built , packed with cutting-edge stealth, sensor fusion, electronic warfare, and networking tech landed right on our soil, and we didn’t even take a proper look......This isn’t just another Western aircraft.....this is fifth-gen gold.......a platform that Russia and China would pay billions just to study up close.

It's going into a hangar saar.
You never know it may get "gang-raped" by 12 DRDO scientists while it's pilot looks away for a few seconds.

India after all is an untrustworthy country for Western wunderwaffe

 

[shade2]

Rafale chooran is so scary that till now we could not even integrate an Astra MK1 on single Rafale. I am all for 114 Rafale for MRFA. But does the Rafales can be integrated with Indian Weapons like Astra MK1, 2, 3. NG, CATS Hunter, Gaurav, Gautam, LACM Air variant, Rudram series. If yes, we are good to go. If not then boom we have 114 jet in your inventory which does not support any Indian weapons and we need to maintain separate weaponry of French origin.

SU30MKI decision is simply due to Rafale coming vro, coming vro. Also HAL Babus were shady liars. Their constant overpromise and under delivery is screwed up IAF.

That is the reason MWF itself should be given to another Lead Integrator. Lets build an 4.5th Gen manufactrer before going into AMCA. But GOI is moving with AMCA project. And for sake of god, do not give to HAL again.

PSLV tender basically went to HAL (One PSU to another PSU), while proudly bangle breaking first Private company PSLV bro.

We must get them to do some Astra and Rudram integration on the existing 36 Rafales before we sign any bigger orders

As you have said integrating our own weaponry is a must, it should be the main and non-negotiable point when buying from any party

 

[Drwho]

Rafaels is turning into a nightmare. Without proper deal to integrate our own system. This jet is just not worth if we can’t use our own weapons. French should be dealt with stern message . No more French hardware till we get the source code.
Looking at it current fleet i think our su and rest fighter are better option in war with AWACS’s. Specially with our weapons. This will be bigger problem in 5 years when we have better missiles ready and can’t use them on rafael . These will be just showcase jets.

 

[silentassassin265]

View: https://x.com/ShiroBarks/status/1938636915198103652

How will it destroy 5th gen fighter?
Due to curvature of earth ground based radars have hard time detecting low flying aircraft, that's why people use aewcs.
And in today's era albm can be launched from 300km distance safely which has hypersonic speed and is not easy to track compared to surface to surface missile.
Also the big radars emit big radar signatures and can be detected easily thanks to cheap uavs.

Only deterrence against 5th gen fighter is another 5th gen fighter or at 4th gen fighter with swarm drones( for protection ) with awecs

 

[silentassassin265]

This is just a figleaf.

Govt is only considering imports now because of literally dropping fighters and squadrons.
If we had a pipeline of 72 MKIs from 2019 they would be least bothered.

In effect the ultimate chindi govt has been forced to open it's wallet because the situation is that dire.



Won't be resolved, I can almost see the Orange Baboon placing export controls on GE engine export until "India doesn't import Big, Beautiful quantities of US Wheat, rice, soybean, pulses and milk"

The insistence on using only US or UK engines is a case of possible dalali in and of itself.



By some miracle if there are no GE engine issues they will say 4.5gen is obsolete, cancel existing order and import F-35 as a stopgap till AMCA is ready.

Lobbying for 5th gen it's unlikely as no country is willing to sell.
Burgers want monopoly on stealth jets and not allowing other western countries to make their own, they are also restricting colonies like japan from making 5th gen jets.
Russia is willing to sell su57 but we may not purchase it .
So amca doesn't have as much hurdles as 4th gen aircraft if we get some engines first.

We might need to overhaul our jet design and make it work on al31/41 engines.

 

[shade2]

Lobbying for 5th gen it's unlikely as no country is willing to sell.
Burgers want monopoly on stealth jets and not allowing other western countries to make their own, they are also restricting colonies like japan from making 5th gen jets.
Russia is willing to sell su57 but we may not purchase it .
So amca doesn't have as much hurdles as 4th gen aircraft if we get some engines first.

We might need to overhaul our jet design and make it work on al31/41 engines.

Burgers are definitely willing to sell us at a markup and after we sign all their ((( T&Cs ))).

Dalals are also ready here to force the Govt to buy it in due time.

You may have read the news of HAL not installing Uttam radar in any of the 83 Tejas jets contracted to them but installing the Jewish radar instead....

Imagine if they're not even leaving a bloody radar you think the dalals will let us have our own 5th gen fighter?

 

[silentassassin265]

Burgers are definitely willing to sell us at a markup and after we sign all their ((( T&Cs ))).

Dalals are also ready here to force the Govt to buy it in due time.

You may have read the news of HAL not installing Uttam radar in any of the 83 Tejas jets contracted to them but installing the Jewish radar instead....

Imagine if they're not even leaving a bloody radar you think the dalals will let us have our own 5th gen fighter?

I never said they will let us build 5th gen jet, we will have to let go of burgers and burger colonies engine and use the engine we already make (al31fp).

Burgers will surely send few dalal as salesman and make us sign a deal for f35, they will take our money and then never deliver anything at all just like f404 engine.

 

[redpanda]

What with this Alpha defence guy he is blaming APML instead of DRDO and HAL. I mean what with his love for HAL and PSUs? Anyways CEMILAC didn't certify the EW suite probably because DRDo don't have a test platform. And who should provide it? HAL.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

What with this Alpha defence guy he is blaming APML instead of DRDO and HAL. I mean what with his love for HAL and PSUs? Anyways CEMILAC didn't certify the EW suite probably because DRDo don't have a test platform. And who should provide it? HAL.

Alpha Defence has a bias towards DPSUs , its known.

 

[shade2]

What with this Alpha defence guy he is blaming APML instead of DRDO and HAL. I mean what with his love for HAL and PSUs? Anyways CEMILAC didn't certify the EW suite probably because DRDo don't have a test platform. And who should provide it? HAL.

Yes he's implying Astra Microwave is not producing the radar or having delays on their side therefore poor HAL has to use Yahudi Radar


View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1939018069013381344

I think this farman to use proven yahudi maal comes from the customers onlee but kya pata.

HAL baboos also might have taken some shekels from Elta

 

[redpanda]

Yes he's implying Astra Microwave is not producing the radar or having delays on their side therefore poor HAL has to use Yahudi Radar


View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1939018069013381344

I think this farman to use proven yahudi maal comes from the customers onlee but kya pata.

HAL baboos also might have taken some shekels from Elta

This guy was praising AMPL a few days back. He is a known HAL simp. He is probably trying to save HAL. I think HAL did some drama regarding price negotiation with AMPL guys. They don't want to pay the money AMPL guys are asking or were promised to given...Also I don't really understand his point. The delay is because DRDO couldn't test, that means they already have the initial batch of radar and EW suite to get certification. And it's HAL who didn't provide the platform. So what has AMPL not reacting to LoI has anything to do with that?

 

[Ajatshatru]

Since the Tejas Mk1A has already been delayed, it should now be equipped with the UTTAM AESA radar instead of ELTA EL/M-2052.

 

[redpanda]

Since the Tejas Mk1A has already been delayed, it should now be equipped with the UTTAM AESA radar instead of ELTA EL/M-2052.

Are bhai 2.5 saal hai 2nd batch k liye. That is enough for certification and negotiation. But HAL chaps somehow want to go for ELTA. All this reeks of corruption.