Indian Air Force: News & Discussions (35 Viewers)

bold part, focus of the hour.
=====
"The lessons from #OperationSindoor have reinforced what military strategists have long understood but perhaps not fully appreciated until now. Modern warfare, thanks to technology, has fundamentally altered the relationship between distance and vulnerability. Today, precision-guided munitions like Scalp, Brahmos, etc. have rendered geographical barriers almost meaningless, when weapons can targets can strike targets hundreds of km away with pinpoint accuracy, the traditional concepts of front, rear, flanks, combat zones and depth areas all become all become irrelevant... this new reality demands that we extend our surveillance envelope far beyond what previous generation could have imagined "


View: https://x.com/ANI/status/1932670686968905755
 
SU57 design is bad. If it was such a 5G and game changing fighter then why is it missing from action in the Ukrainian war?

You know SU75 is a much superior design to SU57. It is being developed jointly by Belarus and Russia now.
Good, bad or indifferent, Su-57 flies and is in production. IAF can only be equipped with a 5G fighter that is in production. Why so few have been produced I do not know.

AMCA will not be delivered to IAF for at least 10 years. F-35 may be too expensive, with use limited by the US and has a long backlog. The earliest a 5G version of KF-21 with IWB will exist will be some time in the 2030's. India won't be buying KAAN. Su-75 development looks like it has been on hold (no customer interest) The only 5G that looks like it could be available soon is Su-57. Transfer of source codes is offered.

Given the above, Su-57 looks like a sensible choice to counter PAF receiving a 5G fighter. If India is content for PAF to be equipped with 5G fighters for many years while IAF is not, fine. That is India's decision to make.
 
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VHF Radars can track but cant lock thats the biggest drawback and 400 kms is not correct …

Only if it can lock one can target an aircraft and even sending fighters to that area still be dangerous as they can also find it difficult to lock with their radars
i dont think VHF radars can track any stealth fighters. they can only detect stealth targets. but over the horizon radars can detect nd track steath targets nd ships from thousand kilometre distance. they also not effected by earth curveture.
we should make 2-4 over the horizon radars for pakistan nd china border. 3 over the horizon radars in sea (bay of Bengal, arab sea nd indian ocean). for indian ocean we should make two over the horizon radars, coz its bigger than two sea.
 
i dont think VHF radars can track any stealth fighters. they can only detect stealth targets. but over the horizon radars can detect nd track steath targets nd ships from thousand kilometre distance. they also not effected by earth curveture.
we should make 2-4 over the horizon radars for pakistan nd china border. 3 over the horizon radars in sea (bay of Bengal, arab sea nd indian ocean). for indian ocean we should make two over the horizon radars, coz its bigger than two sea.
There's a thing called "locking on" tracking and then there's " constant detection" can know the "rough" position, speed, direction of movement of target and constant updates on those metric, as long as it continues to be detected.

Launch a large missile like 40n6 with large seeker, or better also equip it with irst and TV camera, give it constant midcourse update on the updated "rough position" of the detected target, when it reaches near the target/ rough location of target, it's onboard sensors activate and start Scanning to look for the target.
For redundancy launch 4 such missiles, each coming from different direction to cover corners of radius of " rough location of target".

Can also use multiple vhf, radars to reduce the radius of "rough location" and get a relatively precise coordinates of detected target.

Now that's for " constant detection".

But vhf can can also "lock on and track" target.

View: https://x.com/Flankerchan/status/1926699864168996868
But for ' weapons grade Tracking " of stealth targets, range is still less than 100km( though still lot longer than x band radars used on ground and fighter jets).
But as Said before, you don't need tracking, once " appropiate" accuracy has Been achieved "constant detection" & providing midcourse updates to the missile on that "relatively accurate rough coordinates of the stealth target" is another way, and every country is exploring it.
Making a dense grid of multiple VHF radars, once stealth target detected, focusing other vhf radars in same direction to get " relatively accurate rough coordinates" to guide missile, that's what russia and China are doing, and now India is starting to do too.
 
bold part, focus of the hour.
=====
"The lessons from #OperationSindoor have reinforced what military strategists have long understood but perhaps not fully appreciated until now. Modern warfare, thanks to technology, has fundamentally altered the relationship between distance and vulnerability. Today, precision-guided munitions like Scalp, Brahmos, etc. have rendered geographical barriers almost meaningless, when weapons can targets can strike targets hundreds of km away with pinpoint accuracy, the traditional concepts of front, rear, flanks, combat zones and depth areas all become all become irrelevant... this new reality demands that we extend our surveillance envelope far beyond what previous generation could have imagined "


View: https://x.com/ANI/status/1932670686968905755

I think this can still be countered a bit by having many viable alternate airfields in depth with aircraft shelters (both hardened and environmental). Will be a problem if China develops a near 24x7 constant space based surveillance system.

Conceptually this will be kind of similar to USA's MX (Peacekeeper) missile, which was designed to be moved around between different shelters to make it difficult for USSR to target and destroy them. As USSR would need to target all shelters to get the missile before it is launched. Back then even considering the size of their arsenal, it would have become impractical for USSR to commit so many warheads to destroy a few missiles.
 
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I think this can still be countered a little bit by having many viable alternate airfields in depth with aircraft shelters (both hardened and environmental). Will be a problem if China develops a near 24x7 constant space based surveillance system.

Conceptually this will be kind of similar to USA's MX (Peacekeeper) missile program, which was designed to be moved around between different shelters to make it difficult for USSR to target and destroy them. As USSR would need to target all shelters to get the missile before it is launched.
Along with dispersed airfields( also dispersed everything in military, less concentrated high value targets the better)
Having a dense multi layered airdefense system will also help(a lot).
 
There's a thing called "locking on" tracking and then there's " constant detection" can know the "rough" position, speed, direction of movement of target and constant updates on those metric, as long as it continues to be detected.

Launch a large missile like 40n6 with large seeker, or better also equip it with irst and TV camera, give it constant midcourse update on the updated "rough position" of the detected target, when it reaches near the target/ rough location of target, it's onboard sensors activate and start Scanning to look for the target.
For redundancy launch 4 such missiles, each coming from different direction to cover corners of radius of " rough location of target".

Can also use multiple vhf, radars to reduce the radius of "rough location" and get a relatively precise coordinates of detected target.

Now that's for " constant detection".

But vhf can can also "lock on and track" target.

View: https://x.com/Flankerchan/status/1926699864168996868
But for ' weapons grade Tracking " of stealth targets, range is still less than 100km( though still lot longer than x band radars used on ground and fighter jets).
But as Said before, you don't need tracking, once " appropiate" accuracy has Been achieved "constant detection" & providing midcourse updates to the missile on that "relatively accurate rough coordinates of the stealth target" is another way, and every country is exploring it.
Making a dense grid of multiple VHF radars, once stealth target detected, focusing other vhf radars in same direction to get " relatively accurate rough coordinates" to guide missile, that's what russia and China are doing, and now India is starting to do too.

thnks....what is better:- dense grid of multiple VHF radars nd other ground aesa radars. or some VHF radars, other ground radars and some over the horizon radars.
i think mix of VHF nd over the horizon radar is better option. coz we see in history, that over the horizon radars detected B2 bombers from huge range.
 
By 2030, nearly all 183 Tejas Mk1A jets will be delivered, and around 40 Tejas Mk2s expected to be in service. AMCA prototype will likely be flying by then, yet India may still be negotiating with France for 126 Rafales under the MRFA.

Would India still be buying Rafales in 2030 when Tejas Mk1A and Mk2 are already in service? Indian Air Force could simply choose to order more Tejas Mk2s instead.
 
thnks....what is better:- dense grid of multiple VHF radars nd other ground aesa radars. or some VHF radars, other ground radars and some over the horizon radars.
i think mix of VHF nd over the horizon radar is better option. coz we see in history, that over the horizon radars detected B2 bombers from huge range.
Of course were gonna get over the horizon radar.
But were also gonna need create dense grid of vhf radars.
Along with dense grid of x band fcrs.

It's not choosing between both, they are complimentary.
 
Good, bad or indifferent, Su-57 flies and is in production. IAF can only be equipped with a 5G fighter that is in production. Why so few have been produced I do not know.

AMCA will not be delivered to IAF for at least 10 years. F-35 may be too expensive, with use limited by the US and has a long backlog. The earliest a 5G version of KF-21 with IWB will exist will be some time in the 2030's. India won't be buying KAAN. Su-75 development looks like it has been on hold (no customer interest) The only 5G that looks like it could be available soon is Su-57. Transfer of source codes is offered.

Given the above, Su-57 looks like a sensible choice to counter PAF receiving a 5G fighter. If India is content for PAF to be equipped with 5G fighters for many years while IAF is not, fine. That is India's decision to make.
The window of opportunity to export a 4th-generation fighter jet to India is closing rapidly, and by 2026—when the first prototype of Tejas Mk2 takes flight—it will close completely. However, India will still look to import a 5th-generation fighter as a stopgap measure before the AMCA becomes operational.
 
By 2030, nearly all 183 Tejas Mk1A jets will be delivered, and around 40 Tejas Mk2s expected to be in service. AMCA prototype will likely be flying by then, yet India may still be negotiating with France for 126 Rafales under the MRFA.

Would India still be buying Rafales in 2030 when Tejas Mk1A and Mk2 are already in service? Indian Air Force could simply choose to order more Tejas Mk2s instead.
Because of jets shortfall, we can't realistically make more than 16 a year.
There are too many imported component and supply chain is not established.
And western countries won't just let us become self sufficient in defence manufacturing .
 
Doesn't the reverse also hold true ? Porks allowing chings to have a close look at SUPER DUPER F16 and AAMRAM.? I mean their J10 or J7 (forgot which one) does look like an F16 though Jooz provided them their canceled KFIR plans is what I heard . Would be interesting to know if and how Unkil is preventing porks from allowing chings to spy on Amreekan stuff

A Tomahawk landed in Pakistan during Afghan war, it was sent to Choyna and then piglets bandied their share of it as the Babur missile
Besides the Amerisharts have super duper protections for F16 for the explicit purpose of chongs not allowed to spy on it.

Anyway the Amerisharts haven't donated any fancy new gear to the Pakis and you can guess why, Paki is a raand of a mulq, will sell the other's maal to their enemies for the right price


Gd morning.

Continuing from my last post. The more you dig the worst it goes it seems apparently.

ALIS is a nightmare it seems. Israel is the only country managing without ALIS connection on daily basis for F35s:ROFLMAO:.
View attachment 38817
There is only one global ALIS server, called the Autonomic Logistics Operating Unit (ALOU), where spare parts are ordered and reliability trends are analyzed. Each partner nation has its own server, called the Central Point of Entry (CPE), which stores sovereign data and transmits that information to the ALOU [Wow malware spying, US would know if we were to fly along Karakoram or in Lhasa via Kameng sector in Arunachal;)]
Individual squadrons operate locally with a server called the Standard Operating Unit (SOU), which communicates with that nation's CPE. Squadrons can operate independently and store data for about 30 days without connecting to the partner nation's CPE, Scott said. Then, when a connection is re-established, the SOU uploads the stored data to the CPE.;)

View attachment 38822

Soverign Data Leak f35
Spending F35
View attachment 38825



One more nightmare :ROFLMAO:
F22 & F35 don't talk to each other

[That communication, though, is largely limited to radio calls. The F-22 can’t transmit the most sensitive data it collects to any aircraft besides other F-22s. While it can receive Link 16 data from other aircraft, it can’t pass along its “God’s-eye view” to other players in the force. Even the other fifth generation fighter, the F-35, can’t communicate with the F-22 except at the voice level.

The situation wasn’t brought about by negligence. In developing the F-22—and later, the F-35—designers needed to preserve the jets’ stealth against rapidly evolving adversaries. Standard radio emissions would reveal their locations, which meant devising ways the low-observable fighters could talk to each other without giving away their position. Both jets have what are called “low probability of detection/interecept” communications gear to stay hidden. The F-35’s system—because it was developed 10 years after the F-22’s—takes a different approach.

As a result, Air Force combat communications can become a kind of Tower of Babel. While Raptors can receive over the Link 16 network—the standard across US and NATO aircraft—it can’t transmit over the system. Instead, it uses the F-22-only Intra-Flight Data Link (IFDL). F-35s can transmit on Link 16 to fourth gen jets and talk among themselves using the stealthy Multifunction Advanced Data Link (MADL), a capability the Air Force had planned to install on the F-22 but canceled because of cost about five years ago.]

Northrop Grumman has pitched a different way to help F-22s and F-35s securely talk in flight, by adding another aircraft—Northrop suggests its own RQ-4 Global Hawk—to fly in the area with its “Freedom 550” radio. This “production-ready … software-defined” radio is built using avionics Northrop developed for both the F-35 and F-22. That means the system can translate among IFDL, MADL, and Link 16. Loll :ROFLMAO:

One more Gem
MADL COST
MADL allows a lot. More information can be shared than via other methods and it’s hard to jam. The downside is that it’s really just for inter-F-35 communications. The B-2 Spirit bomber is MADL-compatible, and there were plans to upgrade the F-22 Raptor, but they were scrapped. There has been talk of other fighter upgrades to the new network, but it’s expensive and cumbersome.

And to fly F35 apparently Air Force needs to setup dedicated server that is in communication with Home IACCS C2 node and a server in United states using MADL where data is first uploaded. :ROFLMAO:
F35 Share
[During the exercise, Dutch F-35s operating in an Anti-Access Area Denial (A2AD) environment detected and identified multiple simulated ground targets. Utilizing the Multifunction Advanced Datalink (MADL), the targeting data was transmitted through Skunk Works’ Open Systems Gateway (OSG) into Keystone, the Dutch C2 environment. Keystone then relayed the information to a rocket artillery platform, which engaged and neutralized the target, completing the kill chain within minute]

Imagine Babu in MOD eating Gutka is told all this :LOL::LOL::LOL:

Thanks for this post, I have bookmarked it in case some F35 dallas materialize

No even Israel has developed a specific firewall based Sq level cloud server which then transmits data to central US servers. You require plugging in the F35 to central servers for Maintenance, even JDAM/AMRAAM require patches to work. Best one can do is spend dollars to prevent classified Mission data on uploading to Central server{even that is doubtful}
Damn for theoretical purpose imagine the headache for S400/BARAK8/Pinaka/Kolkata Class destroyer to fire from data of F35 it will require billions of Dollars to set up Sensors fused Networked Battlefield management system. Will require years of work/AI and computing to have a such system running.

Yes this is some Apple Ecosystem shit, you need F-35, then you need F-15EX for muh mizzile-trukk, then you need latest E-7 AWACS to control those BVRAAMs, then you need Patriots on ground, and your ships need AEGIS system to network with F-35

As for munitions, all Europiyya partners of F35 have to do the mujra of testing, certification and modifications to make their weapons work with F35.
 
The time the F35 will be really operational, you will have more options on the table.
I hope, your AMCA first. The are multiple reasons for India for not going for F-35.
You want some, Here one of the video I made (its automatically translated in english, not bad at all...)

View: https://youtu.be/VR2ZrgxAkfY

There is no way that the Rafale price is over 786 billion dollars. Even Million. If you want to replace one Rafale jet, it will be, at worst case scenario, over 80 millions a piece for production price, as you already have paid for everything else (maintenance, simulators, weapons, support package, specific enhancements)


Idk how much it costs, just mocking the people who cry on twitter about whatever sum of money is "lost" in the alleged shootdown of Rafale during Op Sindoor.
 
AMCA RFP for ADA work orders to be released in 15 days.

Su 57E is coming to India. No F 35 on the cards.

View attachment 39035

Basically in terms of planes we should
>Get 3 sqdrns of Rafale
>Speed up Super Sukhoi
>Speed up AMCA

Su-57 is a meme plane and won't turn up in time just like the other Ruzzian stuff ordered
 
AMCA RFP for ADA work orders to be released in 15 days.

Su 57E is coming to India. No F 35 on the cards.

View attachment 39035
This could be part of negotiation tactics in the larger India US context.

If they target India specifically with trade/tariff measures or side with Pakistan beyond a limit, then India will go own way and will deal with China separately and not in partnership/consultation with US/Quad.
 

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