Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Nutcracker]

If i was in charge of the IDF i would buy Su-35 if the Indian stealth fighter program was going well on time and budget, but if it was not, I would buy Su-57, no Rafales, no Eurofighter, just Su-35 since It would had commonality with my Su-30MKI fleet.

Better to update my Su-30MKI fleet with Su-35 hardware than waste money on fighters that give no real advantages

Russia has displayed in zhuhai airshow a better plug and play AL31 for Su-30. It is using metallurgical knowledge gained from AL51/su57 engine. It has smaller thermal RCS and higher service life. Probably more E power and better fuel consumption.

We should order 50 more Su30s from HAL which should consist these engines. Additionally indigenous AESA upgradations should be sped up.

 

[Spacemarine]

So with Trump in India could try for couple of squadrons of F-35 … test the waters and all don't go for any strategic big deal?

 

[shade2]

One quality of the Indian bureaucracy & diplomacy is that they are vengeful... they never forget.

All the Nanga naach Italian pappu did from 2017 to 2019 to malign the rafale deal was sponsored by Eurofighter consortium... yes it's true. Eurofighter walas should simply forget getting any deal. More than the BJP... pappu made life hell for the bureaucrats & diplomats who were involved in the deal.

Germany was leading the Eurofighter bid in India... on losing... German bhadwas got mad and leaked the details of Indian Scorpene subs online.

There is more history behind Eurofighter... they were favorites of congis. Rafale was never L1. The whole scheming(fixed match) was like this... "At some point talks will break down with the French due to high prices... & then govt will have no option but to go with L2 i.e. Eurofighter". Had congis came back to power in 2014... this is how it would have unfolded.

If it was so why didn't they declare Eurofighter as L1? Italy being a part of consortium was enough for the opposition(BJP) to throw cold water on it & create another bofors... so the congis thought of the above Scheme.

As soon as Modi came in office... Eurofighter began it's tantrums... within 10-15 days of him being in office Eurofighter wrote a letter to PMO in 2nd week of June 2014... offering to reduce prices by 20%... but at that time talks with French were ongoing and it was not right as per procedure to consider the L2.

But what frustrated the Eurofighter walas is that Modi went with Rafale even when it was expensive and never considered breaking talks with them & going to L2 Eurofighter.

How do you know all this?
And Eurofighter purchase is still dumb, it's like the Americunt reliability but 4x worse
Never know kisko human rights ka keeda lag jaye

 

[shade2]

So with Trump in India could try for couple of squadrons of F-35 … test the waters and all don't go for any strategic big deal?

Nijjers from Pentagon will prolly try to scuttle it over S400 deployment

 

[Binayak95]

So with Trump in India could try for couple of squadrons of F-35 … test the waters and all don't go for any strategic big deal?

F15EX seems more plausible tbh.

 

[GaudaNaresh]

If i was in charge of the IDF i would buy Su-35 if the Indian stealth fighter program was going well on time and budget, but if it was not, I would buy Su-57, no Rafales, no Eurofighter, just Su-35 since It would had commonality with my Su-30MKI fleet.

Better to update my Su-30MKI fleet with Su-35 hardware than waste money on fighters that give no real advantages

This is the problem with the indian babugiri mentality.
As soon as we start talking jets, we start seeing big picture,gaze shifts to shiny things, etc etc.
The objective of Mirage-2000 purchase is to ape the chinese/russians in their survivalist dire scenarios and MAKE UP ZE NUMBERS. they are meant to last another 10-15 years and that *IS* sufficient time to tide over and focus effort on either more rafales down the road of get engine going and pump out AMCA in mid 2030s-2040.
There are well over 150-200 mirage-2000 around the world and actually many airforces, like france or taiwan are loathe to get rid of them. That should tell us about their airworthyness and bang for the buck.
The Mirage-2000 is no joke, it is comparable to the F16 ( OMG!!!!!!!!! MURRICANS WILL YELL SACRILAGE) and in some ways better in h2h, such as carrying capacity. Yes, its older in the air forces we can shop for ( Greece, UAE, maybe taiwan, maybe some from france, etc) but they are definitely not a flying coffin or a bojha for the IAF but more like the gandhamadhan delivered to save it in a crunch IMO.

And if we shop around aggressively, we should be able to get 50-60 of them at fairly easy price of 1-1.5 billion. That instantly boosts IAF squadron numbers by 3 or so. That is the necessity and clear cut pathway to tide us over till some engines arrive from murrica or we make our own. Thats the bottomline i think.

 

[Nutcracker]

This is the problem with the indian babugiri mentality.
As soon as we start talking jets, we start seeing big picture,gaze shifts to shiny things, etc etc.
The objective of Mirage-2000 purchase is to ape the chinese/russians in their survivalist dire scenarios and MAKE UP ZE NUMBERS. they are meant to last another 10-15 years and that *IS* sufficient time to tide over and focus effort on either more rafales down the road of get engine going and pump out AMCA in mid 2030s-2040.
There are well over 150-200 mirage-2000 around the world and actually many airforces, like france or taiwan are loathe to get rid of them. That should tell us about their airworthyness and bang for the buck.
The Mirage-2000 is no joke, it is comparable to the F16 ( OMG!!!!!!!!! MURRICANS WILL YELL SACRILAGE) and in some ways better in h2h, such as carrying capacity. Yes, its older in the air forces we can shop for ( Greece, UAE, maybe taiwan, maybe some from france, etc) but they are definitely not a flying coffin or a bojha for the IAF but more like the gandhamadhan delivered to save it in a crunch IMO.

And if we shop around aggressively, we should be able to get 50-60 of them at fairly easy price of 1-1.5 billion. That instantly boosts IAF squadron numbers by 3 or so. That is the necessity and clear cut pathway to tide us over till some engines arrive from murrica or we make our own. Thats the bottomline i think.

If you look around how even Dassault is unable to ramp up the production line, even Israel will recieve its F15EX after 6 years, chances are very slim that any second hand jet is on sale right now.
If you try to search "aggressively", current operators will smell the blood then forget about getting it for 30M$ pop as you mentioned.

Israel signs $5.2 billion deal to acquire 25 F-15 fighter jets from Boeing

Israel's Ministry of Defense has inked a $5.2 billion deal with Boeing to procure 25 advanced F-15IA fighter jets. This agreement, part of a larger U.S. aid package, includes an option for 25 more aircraft and deliveries are slated to commence in 2031. The acquisition aims to bolster Israel's...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

 

[shade2]

F15EX seems more plausible tbh.

We already have "heavy fighters" though
Besides like the other guy said even Da Jooz who are a "priority" customer have to wait 6 years to get theirs

 

[shade2]

80% of it has been reported in media... rest 20% is derived from that.

Ok, I have heard this Eurofighter theory before but i always assumed it was the Americunts backing Raul to hawk F16s, not these eurofighter people.

They already do drama of making F16 wings in India saar, Apache fuselage section in India saar etc

Yet still Malai-Khors in Imported Air Force don't want their paki-pasand sh*t, for now

 

[Azaad]

If you look around how even Dassault is unable to ramp up the production line, even Israel will recieve its F15EX after 6 years, chances are very slim that any second hand jet is on sale right now.
If you try to search "aggressively", current operators will smell the blood then forget about getting it for 30M$ pop as you mentioned.

The situation being what it is with the mess in global supply chains there's very little we can do w.r.t fresh procurement or as you rightly pointed out procuring used FA for Air Forces possessing them may not prefer to retire them as replacements are not forthcoming immediately.

The only solution the way I see it is to focus on making as many airframes of the Mk-1a as possible , mate the TF with it as & when we get it , test it & deliver it to the IAF.

The second option is to speed up the upgradation program of the MKI & place fresh orders for 3-4 squadrons of the MKI in the Super Sukhoi configuration such that we get possession of them before 2030 though I'm not sure this is possible.

Still other procurement options appear less plausible like the induction of 2-3 squadrons of the Su-57 for various reasons.

I won't even touch upon the Rafales or the Eurofighter for obvious reasons for even if we sign a G2G with France today for a MII it'd be 2028 before the plant is set up & 2030 before series production begins which if we're going head on with the Chinese around 2030 isn't going to be of much help.

 

[Blademaster]

If i was in charge of the IDF i would buy Su-35 if the Indian stealth fighter program was going well on time and budget, but if it was not, I would buy Su-57, no Rafales, no Eurofighter, just Su-35 since It would had commonality with my Su-30MKI fleet.

Better to update my Su-30MKI fleet with Su-35 hardware than waste money on fighters that give no real advantages

If i had known that I would only be getting 36 Rafales, I would have junked Rafales and go full steam with the MKIs and its upgrade path and the LCA mk 2 and kaveri engine program and a back up engine program such as customizing RD-33 to fit into LCK mk 2 engine bay and go full steam on ORCA program that would have taken over the roles that Rafales and EuroTyphoon would have played 14 years ago.

 

[E-195]

If i had known that I would only be getting 36 Rafales, I would have junked Rafales and go full steam with the MKIs and its upgrade path and the LCA mk 2 and kaveri engine program and a back up engine program such as customizing RD-33 to fit into LCK mk 2 engine bay and go full steam on ORCA program that would have taken over the roles that Rafales and EuroTyphoon would have played 14 years ago.

In my personal opinion I would do something similar, I was saying go with Russia because from my opinion Russia and India are truly friends, but China is not so India and Russia have a common potential enemy so helping each other would be beneficial to both nations

 

[Spacemarine]

If i had known that I would only be getting 36 Rafales, I would have junked Rafales and go full steam with the MKIs and its upgrade path and the LCA mk 2 and kaveri engine program and a back up engine program such as customizing RD-33 to fit into LCK mk 2 engine bay and go full steam on ORCA program that would have taken over the roles that Rafales and EuroTyphoon would have played 14 years ago.

As per the deal the infrastructure is created for couple of squadrons in each Rafale base, I think if non Rafale MRFA is selected 2 more squadrons of Rafale will be bought and in case Rafale is selected than existing infra of 36 more planes are already there.

I say in case Trump pushes India for weapon buying ask F-35 I think that can work for us as Chinese stealth numbers are rising.

 

[Blademaster]

As per the deal the infrastructure is created for couple of squadrons in each Rafale base, I think if non Rafale MRFA is selected 2 more squadrons of Rafale will be bought and in case Rafale is selected than existing infra of 36 more planes are already there.

I say in case Trump pushes India for weapon buying ask F-35 I think that can work for us as Chinese stealth numbers are rising.

Forget it. With the way that US have saddled the F-35 programs with conditions and such, it is essentially worthless. We would not be able to use them without the blessings of US essentially making us as a vassal state.

 

[VictorDelta4]

Forget it. With the way that US have saddled the F-35 programs with conditions and such, it is essentially worthless. We would not be able to use them without the blessings of US essentially making us as a vassal state.

Since you mentioned the F35

F-35 Fighter Has Failed to Meet 'Annual Mission-Capable Goal' 6 Years Straight

The F-35 Lightning II, a cornerstone of U.S. military air superiority, faces significant readiness challenges. Despite the U.S. military operating 630 of the aircraft, a Government Accountability Office (GAO) report reveals that all three branches flying the F-35 have failed to meet...

nationalinterest.org

 

[Spacemarine]

Forget it. With the way that US have saddled the F-35 programs with conditions and such, it is essentially worthless. We would not be able to use them without the blessings of US essentially making us as a vassal state.

We are already stuck with US when we decided to go for US Jet engines, I fully understand how US will behave with F-35 but in case inbred islamists get chinese stealth before AMCA Indian hands might be forced to grab couple of squadrons of F-35…

 

[Bleh]

I have a stinking feeling the IAF will look to induct the Su-57 in the coming years. PAF would likely induct J-35 Export. Only a third of the Su-30MKI fleet is chalked up for modernization. Naturally IAF needs another heavy fighter as a replacement. The Su-57 is export ready now, and Iran might buy some. We'd lose some edge in the neighborhood while China, Pakistan, Iran (and Singapore) all operate 5th gen fighters. We lost the 5th gen edge to China already, but the Himalayas affect Air to Air combat up North. No such convenience down south. If we do end up inducting pthe Su-57, it'd better be mated to an Indian AESA and mission computer; missile compatibility and engine ToT are a given. I've always envisioned the Su-57 as, not a stealth fighter, but a heavy replacement of the Su-30. Since we don't have a comparable jet in the pipeline.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENBLpw6aemQ

Two-seater Sukhoi Su-57 patent registered in Russia - Aeroflap

Patent for the two-seat Sukhoi Su-57 indicates Russia's stealth fighter could be used as an aerial command post.

www.aeroflap.com.br

Fuck ToT, but in the current state of Super Sukhoi delays it's looking like we might actually get 2-3 dozens as stopgap solution like China did for Su-35... it's not proper 5th-gen but it's better than Su-35. While hopefully increase our Rafales' number to 72-90 total in follow-on order by MRFA deadbody.

In return gain 147kN AL-31FN for Su-30 fleet as well.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Two-seater Sukhoi Su-57 patent registered in Russia - Aeroflap

Patent for the two-seat Sukhoi Su-57 indicates Russia's stealth fighter could be used as an aerial command post.

www.aeroflap.com.br

View attachment 15442
Fuck ToT, but in the current state of Super Sukhoi delays it's looking like we might actually get 2-3 dozens as stopgap solution like China did for Su-35... it's not proper 5th-gen but it's better than Su-35. While hopefully increase our Rafales' number to 72-90 total in follow-on order by MRFA deadbody.

In return gain 147kN AL-31FN for Su-30 fleet as well.

I dont see GoI signing Rafale check unless locally made. The Su-57 can't be floated as part of MRFA. IAF will need to present a solid case for replacing/augmenting Su-30s. We never got around modernizing the Su-30 airframe with composites. But as a Su-30 replacement the Su-57 works well for the sheer amount of payload it can carry. Engine license and tot is big too. Russkies aren't in a position to say no to money currently.

Die-cast model as representational image. Two more internal CCM bays not shown in model.

 

[Bleh]

I dont see GoI signing Rafale check unless locally made.

Why not?.. Follow-on orders by staying MMRCA & MRFA were talked about multiple times.

IAF will need to present a solid case for replacing/augmenting Su-30s.

I think Chinese inducting hundreds of J-20s is a case solid enough. And we're not in a position to replace anything. Su-57 if considered, would be to augment the numbers. Even amogg the Su-30s only 90 odd will be upgraded to Super Sukhoi.