Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Azaad]

Ching giving lecture on their J-10 development program and contrasting it with our Genrol


View: https://x.com/someplaosint/status/1877180866738160109

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In contrast to the blame game between IAF and HAL, here’s a page from the history book about China’s effort to develop J-10.Below picture shows General Liu Huaqing, the deputy chairman of the Central Military Commission (highest military post in China) inspecting J-10’s full scale model in 1994.He was the major proponent of the J-10 program. His full support secured J-10’s fate.In 1989, when China was given the green light to purchase and license produce Su-27, there was strong opposition against the J-10 program within the PLA. Because fund & resources were scarce and despite the J-10 program started around 1982, it was still very much on paper in 1989.General Liu himself was fully aware of the capabilities of Su-27 as he was also the driver for getting the Su-27 deal done.But still the J-10 program had his full support. As he once said: Regardless of good the Su-27 is, it is not like the child of our own. So no matter how many difficulties, we must develop the J-10.Liu retired on Mar. 5th 1998, after 68 years of military service. And J-10 took to the sky 2 and a half weeks later on Mar. 23rd 1998.

J-10 indigenous ? My ass. It's a rip off of the Lavi. The Israelis provided them with full documentation & blue prints. Have you ever wondered why's it the J-10 has a completely different design from whatever the Chinese have built before & since ? Which of their later planes resembles the J-10 ?

Besides their definitive J-10 , the J-10C came about a decade ago. So it's been a steep learning curve in spite of their shenanigans or perhaps in spite of it .

This of course has no bearing on their trajectory of building fighters or even transporters & now purportedly 6th Gen FA or civilian airliners . Their quality is unknown though but that's a debate for another day.

 

[Azaad]

Ok so if you want to believe that hal is able to develop futur programms on Time and with the current expectations, it is your privilege, I will not argues with you on that. It seems that you found what the issue is and it is your opinion.
But a company which wasn't able to develop a fighter (whatever the reason why)... How in even it is possible to develop another one ? Do your industry have this experience? No. They don't.
HAL is your main and only one industry with this ability and they don't have a good experience.
Since order and money has been given to HAL, how do you explain there are not able to provide products in volume ? How to explain issues with SU30 production? Issue with part production with Boeing, and Mirage 2000 crashes for which the technical fault has been identified on HAL side? Fifth aircraft modernized on 2000ti standard, first one under full responsibility of HAL.

Sometimes, getting some help in a win/win situation is not so bad...

Well made documentary with some minor blemishes but that's par for the course. Anybody who'd want a summation of the entire MMRCA saga & what followed wouldn't do worse than see your documentary.

HAL isn't a design cum mfg house. It's only the latter. The designing is done by ADA which was specifically created to be an independent design house from resources of HAL way back in the early 1980s.

Secondly HAL isn't an autonomous organization. It comes under the MoD who've the final word over that of HAL's senior management . That doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the management when you can have your decisions over ruled by bureaucrats. Finally like most if not all Public Sector Companies in India they've a very strong union who frequently interfere in the working of the company .

So if HAL needs to succeed in the future it needs to be professionalised. Right now the GoI / MoD isn't remotely interested in doing so. They're interested in everything else but this vital topic including getting the private sector in to some very vital projects but who lack the bandwidth or experience of HAL.

Finally the reason Dassault or rather DRAL didn't recruit from HAL could well be due to instructions from the MoD not to do so for recent initiatives like the Airbus Tata JV to mfg C-295 in India have recruited from HAL so Dassault's claim that HAL employees are under skilled or have a bad attitude just doesn't cut it .

 

[705-Lira]

In 20 years they have built 600 of them. It gives a comparison

You order more, you get more and at a quicker pace, it's simple economics of scale.