Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Azaad]

Arre I know,
The whole forum knows
The Chinki shills on the forum know
The Chinku who i quoted from Twitter also knows

But that's not the point.

The point is him showing how his country's Genrols gave Full Support to J-10 vs imports of Su-27 as compared to our Genrols who were stonewalling Tejas and would want to cancel it too if DRDO/HAL/Govt allowed to import first Mirage and then Rafale and in the future they will do the same with AMCA also to import F-35( US will be flying 6th gens till then )

It's a totalitarian system . What do you expect ? Orders flow in unidirectional way. Dissent ends in a gulag. Besides you think they don't have differences ? It's just it doesn't come into the open .

Plus the import option got shut down from the West once the Tiananmen Square massacre happened & post the patch up with Russia , after stealing their designs the Chinese discovered they weren't too far behind the Russians. So why not copy them & build on it like they've done all their lives.

 

[Azaad]

The rumors of the Israeli drawings are not credible,

they are unreliable information from a Russian, there is no evidence to speak of.

Mr. Song Man Chung's research on the canard layout began with the J9 model.

Chengdu J-9 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is a picture from 1984, which is the beginning of the development of the J10.

View attachment 21254

Yup. We've great trust in the Han . Everyone in the forum trusts everything that you've written. News of the MSS copying & stealing designs from the west are also just that - fake news.

 

[helin]

Yup. We've great trust in the Han . Everyone in the forum trusts everything that you've written. News of the MSS copying & stealing designs from the west are also just that - fake news.

Take the matter as it is.

Unless you have good evidence,

 

[shade2]

It's a totalitarian system . What do you expect ? Orders flow in unidirectional way. Dissent ends in a gulag. Besides you think they don't have differences ? It's just it doesn't come into the open .

Plus the import option got shut down from the West once the Tiananmen Square massacre happened & post the patch up with Russia , after stealing their designs the Chinese discovered they weren't too far behind the Russians. So why not copy them & build on it like they've done all their lives.

I think we also need to do an import shutdown, no other way, look at this Jernailzada who abingdonboy has replied to


View: https://x.com/navneetsingh411/status/1877440262344994938

>muh besht in wurld
>build only niche tech yo! import from 5 other places!

I unironically think we must import "proven" Jernails and Afsars from abroad.

 

[Azaad]

Take the matter as it is.

Unless you have good evidence,

In the free world i.e that part of the world where you don't require to access the internet with VPN has thousands of articles on this subject. Feel free to check them out.

Google Search

 

[shade2]

In the free world i.e that part of the world where you don't require to access the internet with VPN has thousands of articles on this subject. Feel free to check them out.

Google Search

Leave it, the ~5 wumaos know that it's an imported design and all but they can't admit even if they want to, otherwise they will get the Chinese equivalent of Black Vigo picking them up

 

[helin]

In the free world i.e that part of the world where you don't require to access the internet with VPN has thousands of articles on this subject. Feel free to check them out.

Google Search

“”The Chengdu Aircraft Corporation had begun work on the J-10 in 1988 under engineer Song Wecong, who can be seen next to a Lavi in this photo (fourth from the right).“”

1988 is definitely a false description

The Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute's proposal was selected in February 1984
In 1986, The State Council and the Central Military Commission approved the project

Where's the photo? I want to see

 

[Azaad]

“”The Chengdu Aircraft Corporation had begun work on the J-10 in 1988 under engineer Song Wecong, who can be seen next to a Lavi in this photo (fourth from the right).“”

1988 is definitely a false description

The Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute's proposal was selected in February 1984
In 1986, The State Council and the Central Military Commission approved the project

Where's the photo? I want to see

Which is the reason I wrote this

Yup. We've great trust in the Han . Everyone in the forum trusts everything that you've written. News of the MSS copying & stealing designs from the west are also just that - fake news

Besides is a photograph proof of everything ? Evidently you're of the belief photographs can't be doctored at least not in a totalitarian state.

 

[rockdog]

The rumors of the Israeli drawings are not credible,

they are unreliable information from a Russian, there is no evidence to speak of.

Mr. Song Man Chung's research on the canard layout began with the J9 model.

Chengdu J-9 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This is a picture from 1984, which is the beginning of the development of the J10.

View attachment 21254

Magazine in 1980 actually revealed the PLAAF already started to research such airframe, maybe not J10 yet.




I think PLAAF now has most ongoing projects in the world:

Major aircraft platforms:

SAC: J15T, J35 af，J35 navy, J35 Export, J16, J50
CAC: J10C, J20, J20S, J36
XAC: Y20B, H20, KJ200

 

[DumbPilot]

Magazine in 1980 actually revealed the PLAAF already started to research such airframe, maybe not J10 yet.

View attachment 21258


I think PLAAF now has most ongoing projects in the world:

Major aircraft platforms:

SAC: J15T, J35 af，J35 navy, J35 Export, J16, J50
CAC: J10C, J20, J20S, J36
XAC: Y20B, H20, KJ200

that looks like a F-16.. and if I put this into an OCR, the words are:

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

Sometimes IAF stuff goes to PLAAF thread.
Sometimes PLAAF stuff goes to IAF thread.

 

[rockdog]

that looks like a F-16.. and if I put this into an OCR, the words are:

View attachment 21295

I made a screenshot from badiu search engine.

China indeed quite inspired by F16 and US wanted to sell it at that time. It was honeymoon between big two.

 

[Azaad]

I made a screenshot from badiu search engine.

China indeed quite inspired by F16 and US wanted to sell it at that time. It was honeymoon between big two.

View attachment 21298

View attachment 21300View attachment 21301

So inspired by the F-16 that once the Chinese couldn't get their hands on it they took the next best option which is to go in for an F-16 rip off - the Lavi. So what do we have here in the J-10 ? It's a rip off of a rip off .

Rest assured Baidu search engine will not yield any results on it. For obvious reasons.

 

[Azaad]

that looks like a F-16.. and if I put this into an OCR, the words are:

View attachment 21295

Good catch ! @DumbPilot



I think the MSS must get better tools & deploy AI & ML but most importantly recruit ONLY Gaokao pass candidates . Otherwise the results will be the same as what we're seeing now . @rockdog

 

[bruno]

Well made documentary with some minor blemishes but that's par for the course. Anybody who'd want a summation of the entire MMRCA saga & what followed wouldn't do worse than see your documentary.

HAL isn't a design cum mfg house. It's only the latter. The designing is done by ADA which was specifically created to be an independent design house from resources of HAL way back in the early 1980s.

I didn't knew that HAL was only a factory and not the designer of the plane and/or systems. Thank you. I need to dig more into that.

Secondly HAL isn't an autonomous organization.

I know, it is explained twice in the video. Maybe I need to check the translation again

Finally the reason Dassault or rather DRAL didn't recruit from HAL could well be due to instructions from the MoD not to do so for recent initiatives like the Airbus Tata JV to mfg C-295 in India have recruited from HAL so Dassault's claim that HAL employees are under skilled or have a bad attitude just doesn't cut it .

This is what some guys from the company told me. And I can understand them. It is not that there are bad, but due to the difference in enterprise culture of work. it is mainly because they told me it is much more difficult for a company to make your employees un-learn something rather than take a junior and learn to him your way of doing things.

And Dassault doesn't work the same way of Airbus. So, if it is their decision...

 

[Azaad]

I didn't knew that HAL was only a factory and not the designer of the plane and/or systems. Thank you. I need to dig more into that.

It's a bit complicated. The LCA Mk-1 is completely designed by ADA. The Mk-1a which is basically the same version as Mk-1 with some improvements to the airframe apart from better avionics is being done in house by HAL.

Forthcoming designs like LCA Mk-2 , AMCA Mk-1 / Mk-2 & TEDBF will be designed by ADA & mfgd by HAL. However HAL has been designing & mfg helicopters & has been rather successful at it. HAL is also behind the design & mfg of Basic & Intermediate Jet Trainers as well as certain drones like the HAPS - High Altitude Pseudo Satellites.Then it's also into mfg of Turbo Fans & Turbo Shafts as well as small sized civilian planes .

That's one of the problem areas of HAL - lack of focus & thereby core competencies . It has its fingers in just too many pies .

I know, it is explained twice in the video. Maybe I need to check the translation again

Didn't notice if the sub titles did or didn't carry the information. Just as most people carry this misconception of HAL being a design cum mfg house, similarly there's this misconception of HAL being an autonomous unit .

This is what some guys from the company told me. And I can understand them. It is not that there are bad, but due to the difference in enterprise culture of work. it is mainly because they told me it is much more difficult for a company to make your employees un-learn something rather than take a junior and learn to him your way of doing things.

And Dassault doesn't work the same way of Airbus. So, if it is their decision...

 

[DumbPilot]

Good catch ! @DumbPilot



I think the MSS must get better tools & deploy AI & ML but most importantly recruit ONLY Gaokao pass candidates . Otherwise the results will be the same as what we're seeing now . @rockdog

its pretty pathetic on his end

 

[bruno]

I'll try to get more information about how design and manufacturing works between two different companies. I know the Russians do the same way, but not in other companies I know.

 

[Bhartiya Sainik]

SPOILER/HUMOR

BREAKING NEWS

Super-duper-Sukhoi upgrade finally revealed



Have a good weekend.

 

[AbRaj]

J-10 indigenous ? My ass. It's a rip off of the Lavi. The Israelis provided them with full documentation & blue prints. Have you ever wondered why's it the J-10 has a completely different design from whatever the Chinese have built before & since ? Which of their later planes resembles the J-10 ?

Besides their definitive J-10 , the J-10C came about a decade ago. So it's been a steep learning curve in spite of their shenanigans or perhaps in spite of it .

This of course has no bearing on their trajectory of building fighters or even transporters & now purportedly 6th Gen FA or civilian airliners . Their quality is unknown though but that's a debate for another day.

How are you able to regurgitate so much nonsense consistently?