Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Corvus Splendens]

Given the state of IAF now and in coming years, out best bet against pakis is :-

During wartime we can more or less sneeze on them and destroy half of their critical logi, airbases and ports in a matter of hours. Nobody is buying 5th fighters for pakistan in mind. Boogeyman was always china but we don't always say it.

 

[AbRaj]

It clearly mentions "...has 80 percent structural...commonality" which incidentally means airframe only.
So I don't know from where exactly are you citing this data of them being totally different. Would be great if you can quote it

SFF has a very lengthy discussion regarding development and evolution of Rafale M, with proper references. you can look into it.

As for comparing HAL with other manufacturers, I hope you're matured enough to understand that in big ticket items like aircraft we can't just compare some firm as a whole to another; there are nuances.

Why not ? Both are in market for selling their products, be it Apple/Google or Micromax and Lava. You may think its unfair to smaller inefficient companies, but its how market economy works.

OFB not being able to churn out a decent pistol in decades is one thing, but comparing HAL and Boeing!!!

again why not ? HAL is just few step behind OFBs in road to total collapse. Earlier it was believed that OFBs and HAL like BSNL, HMT, Hindustan Motors are essential for India's existence. some are already dead and buried and some are heading in that direction.

Just like you adviced me to be more specific, I'd like you to be more specific too.
Make a detailed chart of when exactly these companies were established, are they in a democratic country or an autocratic, how many different planes have they designed till now, what's the market share, do they've any civilian business to offset the R&D of defence department. Then do a comparison

sorry but I have no interest in writing thesis on origin and evolution of all the Aeronautical companies of the world. It just not worth it for me. If anyone is aiming for finding an excuse, he will find one regardless of all the efforts to show otherwise.

You also mentioned proper future roadmap and competent management. Then how come Gripen is considered to a sub par project? Why has Mikoyan Gurevich lost its edge?

Yes, many have outlived their life and like HAL succumbed to their mismanagement. And Gripen is far from a Subpar product. Performance wise and in electronics and EWs its amongst the best light fighters available

 

[AbRaj]

HAL is old company yes, but go look up how many aircraft it has exported to other countries. In terms of exports, HAL is still an infant child. Cannot be compared to global industry giants.

I dont think its IAF's fault. Or is it ?

 

[Ayan Barat]

SFF has a very lengthy discussion regarding development and evolution of Rafale M, with proper references. you can look into it.

That it not how citations work Buddy. Give me the exact source about this said thing of Rafale.

Why not ? Both are in market for selling their products, be it Apple/Google or Micromax and Lava. You may think its unfair to smaller inefficient companies, but its how market economy works.

And yet if I offer you to choose between a free Micromax and an iPhone...you'll always choose a Micromax!
Isn't it!?

again why not ? HAL is just few step behind OFBs in road to total collapse. Earlier it was believed that OFBs and HAL like BSNL, HMT, Hindustan Motors are essential for India's existence. some are already dead and buried and some are heading in that direction.

Again an extremely flawed and shallow interpretation of things.

There are already multiple firms like ASTR and SSS who're doing exponentially better than OFB. But in case of aerospace, ADA kept waiting for private industries to show up and not a single entity dared to come forward in one and a half year. So again, God knows on what basis is this few steps behind OFB is coming from.

sorry but I have no interest in writing thesis on origin and evolution of all the Aeronautical companies of the world. It just not worth it for me. If anyone is aiming for finding an excuse, he will find one regardless of all the efforts to show otherwise.

No issues Mate.

Not everyone has the appetite of doing an analysis based on scientific temperament; some people are happier with "HAL bad bad" "MiG good good" kind of analysis.

Yes, many have outlived their life and like HAL succumbed to their mismanagement. And Gripen is far from a Subpar product. Performance wise and in electronics

Again, a swallow take. My statement was "sub par project" not "sub par product". You must be well aware with the fact that a project is bit different than product. A project starts with need recognition, sales forecast, R&D...and is considered a success only if it's able to meet the forecasted sales figure in the stipulated time.

 

[Nutcracker]

F35B can actually do ski jump, so it makes sense to purchase it for navy too.
Regarding rafale we can buy 1 or 2 squadron more in case murrica sanctions us and F35 become unusable.

Rafale and F35B variant does not have foldable wings so wont fit into the lift. But Rafale is widest on posterior side hence it can hang its butt outside the life unlike F35B.

Only someone like Nutcracker could think like that.

You are again jumping into thread about which you don't have a clue about.

Both are essentially different planes altogether.

Define in percentage of parts/cost wise or don't make generic statement.

 

[Bleh]

leave it .

govt should have posted satellite image of hostel strike next day . they can still do it ,

IAF needs a 2nd balakot to get back its credibility . something i doubt will happen in near future.

They didn't even record shit. IAF needs & needed to be more active & aggressive.

Remember how we at DFI correctly predicted the Paki retaliatory action after the Balakot humiliation & were in such anticipation how IAF would be ready to pounce with SAMs & CAP loadouted Mig-29s at ready... Gazab KLPD ho gya! Pakis made a great comeback from embarrassment to celebratipn & GOI was fully responsible for it.

 

[Hari Sud]

Now with planned F-35 purchase, the Pakistani psyche has been fully damaged. Before that they were celebrating their purchase of third rate Chinese stealth fighter. They were quick to point out that PAF is 7 to 10 years ahead of IAF. That has been floored. Now they are going around to point out expensive purchase of F-35. Well, India can afford it because they are the one with a begging bowl in hand; India is ten times bigger economy, 50 times bigger cash reserves and exports of $800 billion. It is expensive for them. It is all right to India, if that is what it takes to pull them to the ground.

 

[Bleh]

Now with planned F-35 purchase, the Pakistani psyche has been fully damaged.

There is no plan F-35 purchase... it was it was stated that India eventually maybe might get offered the F-35.
Unless you hear news it's replacing the F-21 & SH-18 in MRFA, there's no F-35 being offered to India. It's those only.

If we buy then like good vasals, the lord wil consider it.

 

[Hari Sud]

There is no plan F-35 purchase... it was it was stated that India eventually maybe might get offered the F-35.
Unless you hear news it's replacing the F-21 & SH-18 in MRFA, there's no F-35 being offered to India. It's those only.

If we buy then like good vasals, the lord wil consider it.

May be or may be not. It is the Pakistani over confidence which has been damaged with even offer to purchase.

 

[Brood Father]

Rafale and F35B variant does not have foldable wings so wont fit into the lift. But Rafale is widest on posterior side hence it can hang its butt outside the life unlike F35B.


You are again jumping into thread about which you don't have a clue about.

Define in percentage of parts/cost wise or don't make generic statement.

I agree this might be radical and difficult but could solve a lot of problems for navy and IAF

What about IAF do with only 36 jets ? OTOH if IAF gets substantial F35 , that could be mainstay tip of spear and in the meantime they can induct Tejas Mk2 and AMCA
Navy however could fill it's gap with Rafales and could then focus on RnD on fifth gen deck based fighter

 

[ArjunMK1A]

If IAF is so eager with F35, should we just take Rafales from IAF , modify them and give those to Navy ?
IAF can have a bigger fleet of F35 in that way with capex saved in Rafale-M purchase.
I guess it shouldn't cost more than 1.2B$ to convert AF Rafale to Marine, ~35M each.
@BON PLAN what do you think about the commonalities between AF rafale and Marine rafale.

Need to swap the Entire wing structure. May be an easy work. But next part is to replace the undercarriage of M variant.

Again need to see these kind of modifications.

The closest is SU-27/30 to J-16. The former is all metal version compared to Chinese version which has significant composite body.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Too expensive. New Build F35s are cheaper than new build Su30MKIs.

Let that sink in. HAL maxxed out its line at 18 birds a year. LM Fort Worth will deliver 189 F35s this year. Economies of scale are altogether another ballgame.

HAL is useless at maximizing economics.

Order size of 1000s versus order size of 200-240 SU-30MKI.

HAL will not churn out 100+ for the above order size. Even Tejas is maxed out for 8 per year. 83 meaning 10 years. But if IAF goes with extra 97 then we can expect them to upgrade to 16 per year output.

Even LM is going on an decade production. HAL also doing the same. Only thing the order size is small and rate of production is low to maintain production line.

HAL still answerable to Share holders, if they mismanage like this, then their financials gets hit. Unfortunately aerospace sector still a no go for Private companies due to Huge Capex. IAF requirement is still dicey. TASL is one of the principle integator apart from HAL. But they went with C-295 which has India + orders. Other vendors becomes sub-contractor to HAL.

How much MWF you need? Whether it is 12 squadron. Will it increase on par with Chinese squadron size.
Are we going with MMRCA? Whether it is Rafale or anything else?
Are we going to ditch MMRCA with 5th Gen fighters like F-35 or SU-57?
If 5th Gen ordered from outside. What is the requirement of AMCA?


Current 42 squadron is enough to handle the current war scenario. Or do we need additional squadrons.

 

[Ayan Barat]

Now with planned F-35 purchase, the Pakistani psyche has been fully damaged. Before that they were celebrating their purchase of third rate Chinese stealth fighter. They were quick to point out that PAF is 7 to 10 years ahead of IAF. That has been floored. Now they are going around to point out expensive purchase of F-35. Well, India can afford it because they are the one with a begging bowl in hand; India is ten times bigger economy, 50 times bigger cash reserves and exports of $800 billion. It is expensive for them. It is all right to India, if that is what it takes to pull them to the ground.

Okay, now I'm seriously concerned. Why are you so obsessed with Pakistan Sir!?


Just one launching point, hidden well inside our borders, using just two types of missiles, that too lower tiered (BrahMos and Prithvi-III) we're able to cover pretty much the whole of the landmass...and still there you're, damaging their psyche!
Why Sir

 

[samsaptaka]

Guys guys guys important!



What's in it for the generals? How do they get the piece of the pie in case of foreign mal?



we need to explore the mechanics of corruption.

I don't think there is a report anywhere that explain how high ranking defense personnel conduct their money minting.

For a report you need to have an investigation first. For an investigation to happen, GoI or PMO should recognise that there is problem first and more importantly have the balls to conduct investigation against serving gernails and babooze, maulana has neither. So stalemate

 

[Nutcracker]

Not much of a difference because unlike other planes with two variants it lacks a folding wing. So changes should be limited to things like different undercarriage, arresting hook, etc. One tiring part of a theoretical conversion would be adding salt-water corrosion prevention measures to every single exposed part; but then again just tiring, not complicated.

But the conversion won't be the biggest issue; this would be...

No matter what happens, they're not giving up their newish planes. Especially with the kind of rift services have among them.

Thats why I wrote "we/MoD should take", something has to give. Airforce can start enjoying budget-rafale/MK2 by the time transfer takes place. 4 F-35 squadrons should satisfy AF's ego. Although apart from their ego, another problem is what to do with S-400 batteries. All S400 for Pakis, Kusha in 4-5 years for Xhina.

Need to swap the Entire wing structure. May be an easy work. But next part is to replace the undercarriage of M variant.

Under carriage, landing gears, yes.. wing structure doubtful.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Thats why I wrote "we/MoD should take", something has to give. Airforce can start enjoying budget-rafale/MK2 by the time transfer takes place. 4 F-35 squadrons should satisfy AF's ego. Although apart from their ego, another problem is what to do with S-400 batteries. All S400 for Pakis, Kusha in 4-5 years for Xhina.


Under carriage, landing gears, yes.. wing structure doubtful.

Regarding the wing. It should be swap. Most probably entire wing is an sub assembly. Similar to Tejas.




Then final will be certification of Upgrades by Dassault.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Thats why I wrote "we/MoD should take", something has to give. Airforce can start enjoying budget-rafale/MK2 by the time transfer takes place. 4 F-35 squadrons should satisfy AF's ego.

4 maybe 5 squadrons of F-35 are max what IAF can get past the CAG, and not without significant pushback and hours of power point chai biskit sessions. IAF is not going to fulfill their MRFA requirements of 120+ birds with F-35. I expect a repeat order of 36 Rafales for IAF.

 

[Bleh]

F35KMKB


View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1892598276005773771

View: https://x.com/Ray70409890/status/1892525199762870355

 

[Hari Sud]

Okay, now I'm seriously concerned. Why are you so obsessed with Pakistan Sir!?

View attachment 25666
Just one launching point, hidden well inside our borders, using just two types of missiles, that too lower tiered (BrahMos and Prithvi-III) we're able to cover pretty much the whole of the landmass...and still there you're, damaging their psyche!
Why Sir

Just to damage Pakistani psyche who had grown overconfident with their purchase of Chinese Stealth fighter.

 

[daya]

Keep cool, nothing is going to happen. Imports will be there. Tejas ko chhodo.