Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

Azaad said:
USAF also tends towards hyperbole to increase their budget as do other arms of the US armed forces. It's a tactic they've learned & passed on since the Cold War .

Stealth itself is exaggerated. In the context of F-22 & F-35 it's VLO . That itself should tell you something about it . It's not ALL ASPECT Stealth . That's expected to come with the 6th Gen FA & later .

Even today civilian radars operating in L band can detect these "stealth " FA & so can the ordinary 4Gen & 5Gen Cellular phone towers using passive radars though this was purely unintentional. Tracking & generating a firing solution is another matter. That's where the next paragraph comes in to play.

Finally , you guys need to read up more on the radar network each of our armed forces have created & how they're interleaving those networks with civilian & weather radar systems networks along with cellphones network to create one hell of a grid , then add to this the fact we're importing the Voronezh LR radar systems from Russia besides recently deploying the first of our VHF radars to detect Stealth & then you may come to the conclusion that we've the capacities & capabilities to look beyond the borders deep into Tibet & Xinjiang & right across across our country.

Take away stealth & there's nothing to distinguish an F-22 or a F-35 from the other 4.5th Gen FAs , what to speak of the Su-57 or the J-20. I recall reading a senior general in the IDF predicting wat back in 2010-12 that stealth will no longer enjoy an advantage a decade later . Well here we are .

Besides China's already completed building the entire grid a few years ago . So what we're doing is nothing out of the ordinary. Of course having said that not many countries have accomplished this apart from Israel , China , Russia , the US & now India is on the way to deploying these capabilities. Not aware of any other country who're building / have built such capacities.



Please don't jump in between the movie & expect to understand what's happening. Also don't put your words in my mouth.

That's just your opinion. In the event we've contributed around 250 million USD to develop the FGFA & we haven't cancelled the contract yet , just said we're not going to partner with you anymore.

You're free to develop the FA the way you want & if you so please you can approach us to sell it. We'd evaluate it & if it suits our requirements things can proceed forward.
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No matter how much better Rafale is it can not be better than Su 57. A Su 57MKI with Indian electronics would be far superior to the Rafale F4/F5. The biggest advantage 57 has is that it has an internal weapons bay, so no matter what, with only an air-to-air weapons load, it will have a lower RCS than Rafale.
While we all agree the Russians have been left behind in terms of electronics, but in the sheer hardware they are still better than everyone bar USA. Only money is stopping them from developing better hardware than China.
Also, the philosophy of Su57 is different from the F35/22, hence it doesn't have stealth like them, its optimized for maneuverability with VLO.
Now we can debate on the Opex of Russian hardware, why Rafale could be a better option for IAF, how Su57 is not a true 5h gen etc but calling Rafale in the same league as Su57 is a stretch.
 
Azaad said:
Did you see the program or did you just feel the need to troll ? Besides are we to assume the armee de l'air never ever committed any mistakes throughout its existence ?
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It arrived we made a mistake or two.
But you, "les indiens", made absolutely all.
 
BON PLAN said:
for sure.
You just have to fine tune it and produce it.
rendez vous in 2070 ?
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Ahem.
Azad seems to be highly sceptical of su57.
What do you think current su57 with alf41 vs future rafale f5.
Which has edge?
 
BON PLAN said:
for sure.
You just have to fine tune it and produce it.
rendez vous in 2070 ?
Click to expand...
The Rafale due to its small nosecone will inherently have lower TRMs,
additionally small engines, hence lower power output, so eventually it will have a lower radar range than the Su57. While I do agree the Spectra is world-class, the L402 Himalayas electronic countermeasure suite is not bad either. And given the recent Indian advancements in avionics, I am confident that a Su 57 MKI will be better than Rafale.
However, there is a very good chance that we won't be buying Su57 !!
 
Azaad said:
The French members over in Strat Front claim the range of the meteor is close to 300 kms maybe more. Apparently their former president Hollande unintentionally revealed the range of the Meteor missile in his autobiography.

Now you can use your logic to guess what's the range of the RBE 2 radar. Once again just to remind you, kid, what you & I believe doesn't matter , it's what the IAF believes which matters & right now the IAF is enamoured by the Rafales not by the Su-57 .

Whether this love affair was worth it or a total waste will be known soon as will the performance of the J-16+ J-20 combo.

You can check with @BON PLAN
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Meteor official range is : "NEZ >60km".
That may be 65km, 70km, 80 km, 100km ???

The NEZ range of a missile is a very limited one. Some datas about MICA say that NEZ is somewhere in the 15-20km range and max range nearly 70 to 80 (Taiwanese AF destroyed a air target in 1996 at 67 km, but was this target agile ??? ).
So for a powder missile, max range seems to be 3 to 4 times bigger than NEZ.
Is it the same for a stato missile ? I don't have the knowledge. But if so the max range can be extrapolate to 180 to 240 km mini.
300km ? possible, but with little kinetic energy at the end course, so potent for a slow moving target as tanker or Awacs, not for a fighter.

About the radar : RBE2AESA range is in the 200km range for a 1m² target (the double of PESA radar).
Next gen radar, in GaN, will have a greater range and more antistealth modes.

Hollande autobiography : I didn't read it as he was the worst president of the last 50 years... But I think he spoke about the SCALP range and non the Meteor one, but I'm not sure.

If all goes weel, I will have the opportunity to meet the last french air force General commander next 14th of July, in a very restricted framework. I will try to have some datas about Rafale F5, Spectra, GaN radar and may be Meteor ranges (NEZ and max one).
 
randombully said:
Ahem.
Azad seems to be highly sceptical of su57.
What do you think current su57 with alf41 vs future rafale f5.
Which has edge?
Click to expand...
Absolutely no idea.
I just have found the russian jets in general deceptfull in Ukraine. And since not a single sell, except Su57 in Algeria but probably inked before.
 
Migflug said:
The Rafale due to its small nosecone will inherently have lower TRMs,
additionally small engines, hence lower power output, so eventually it will have a lower radar range than the Su57. While I do agree the Spectra is world-class, the L402 Himalayas electronic countermeasure suite is not bad either. And given the recent Indian advancements in avionics, I am confident that a Su 57 MKI will be better than Rafale.
However, there is a very good chance that we won't be buying Su57 !!
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Sole certainty : Su57 bird range > Rafale range.
For the rest we try to compare orange and strawberry. A heavy fighter and a light medium one.
Better to try to compare SCAF and Su-57.
 
BON PLAN said:
Sole certainty : Su57 bird range > Rafale range.
For the rest we try to compare orange and strawberry. A heavy fighter and a light medium one.
Better to try to compare SCAF and Su-57.
Click to expand...
yes, both are of different weight classes, but the cost is the ultimate decider. And the Rafale is more costly than the Su57. So, from an ROI perspective, they are in the same league, hence the comparison.
FYI, given the high per-unit cost of Rafale & its weapons and the high opex of Su57, I am assuming the LTC won't be much different.
 
BON PLAN said:
Sole certainty : Su57 bird range > Rafale range.
For the rest we try to compare orange and strawberry. A heavy fighter and a light medium one.
Better to try to compare SCAF and Su-57.
Click to expand...
One of the strong points of rafale is how much lift it generates, how much payload it can carry and how much range it gives for being relatively compact jet.
All three things desirable for naval jet, specially stobar one.
But that smaller nose cone was a bad decision.
Being twin engine it has potential to power a more powerful radar, somewhere between 1300-1600 gan trm Size radar.

That's also where the design of tedbf shined, maintaining strong suits of rafale but much wider node cone.
Tho for 2038 timeline, it needs to become fucking stealthified with IWB.
 
Migflug said:
View attachment 26730
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And all modern solutions start with

d9bdf0a7-bb37-4e2e-91b1-e16ef0c72689_text.gif
 
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