Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

Hmm 1080 fighters. (60 * 18)
LOL 1080 my a**, at the rate Import AF is inducting aircraft , and crying for MRFA like a spoilt child and HAL babooz screwing up the whole engine procurement and govt sitting on its rear not sanctioning required funding for mk2 nor for Kaveri dev or ftb, we might all as well do 1080 collective japa daily to our ishtadevata to resolve this pathetic situation than IAF getting 1080 aircraft !
 
Hmm 1080 fighters. (60 * 18)

1. Tejas - 40+83+97 = 220
2. SU-30MKI = 272
3. Rafale = 36

So we have so called Modern birds at 528.

What will be the remaining 552 aircrafts.

114 - MRFA (Most probable Rafale)

This mean we have remaining 438.

We have MWF and AMCA. Question is whether it will be 50-50 or AMCA will be preferred over MWF.

24 Squadrons Pending.

12 MWF and 12 AMCA.

Or

14 AMCA and 10 MWF.

Some how MWF is getting shorthand since we are trying to get MRFA jets.

only rafale fits the bill for 114 MRFA, IAF does not seem to have the institutional maturity to close any other deal with in this 5-10 year timeframe. if news comes out by next year that IAF is planning to conduct trials for F-15 and then take final call, we can take it as IAF is not serious about this project.

there is no way muricans will agree for India specific mods and integration of desi weapon systems on F-15. even if boeing agrees, their congress will block the deal. unnecessary headache.
 
only rafale fits the bill for 114 MRFA, IAF does not seem to have the institutional maturity to close any other deal with in this 5-10 year timeframe. if news comes out by next year that IAF is planning to conduct trials for F-15 and then take final call, we can take it as IAF is not serious about this project.

there is no way muricans will agree for India specific mods and integration of desi weapon systems on F-15. even if boeing agrees, their congress will block the deal. unnecessary headache.
F-15 won't be alone even, we will probably have to buy large number of aim-120s at bullshit prices. they will demand control over operations these jets, imo it would be worse than having no jet, at least we wouldn't pay anything.
 
Hmm 1080 fighters. (60 * 18)

1. Tejas - 40+83+97 = 220
2. SU-30MKI = 272
3. Rafale = 36

So we have so called Modern birds at 528.

What will be the remaining 552 aircrafts.

114 - MRFA (Most probable Rafale)

This mean we have remaining 438.

We have MWF and AMCA. Question is whether it will be 50-50 or AMCA will be preferred over MWF.

24 Squadrons Pending.

12 MWF and 12 AMCA.

Or

14 AMCA and 10 MWF.

Some how MWF is getting shorthand since we are trying to get MRFA jets.
how is MWF progressing, without engine supply from GE, these so called squadrons will only exist on paper. we will do TOT TOT jaap and end up getting cucked by muricans.
 
Don't waste your time discussing this new update of 60 sqds by 2047... the committee was headed by an IAS who will retire in next 2-3 yrs... and till 2047 India will have atleast 9-10 more defence secretaries and multiple changes in govt.

If you still want to continue this discussion... let me tell you there was something called "Field Artillery Rationalisation Plan" drafted in 1999 which called for induction of approx 3000-3600 guns by 2020... we are 5 yrs past the deadline yr and only about "280" of the planned guns have been inducted. That's less than 10% of the target in 25 fucking yrs.

The entire Artillery acquisition would have costed around 60,000 crores INR... the IAF proposal for 60 squadrons by 2047 which would need 40-42 squadrons(750-800) new fighters would cost 160 billion dollars... approx 15 lakh crores in current exchange rate.

Those who couldn't do the easier and much cheaper job of Artillery induction in 25 yrs... what makes you think they will achieve or even implement a 25x costly thing with just 22 yrs in hand.

So no need to discuss... IAS babu apna photo session khana purti kar liya... kaam khatam.

Most DAC approvals of past 2-3yrs have not reached contract finalization yet...huh... aur inse ghanta hoga.

This govt is good at creating news headlines through DAC approvals & now this.
 
There are so many wrong things in your post.
Listen man, su57 is not as good as f35, I would say not as as good as j20.
But it's better than rafale in stealth, and not inferior in terms of avionics even by a little but.
And those exposed engine, are for protypes, production varient is fully covered one.
Aa for spectra, it's a good suite but not some best in world suite, again it's a very good suite, but highly overhyped, many modern suites can rival it.


As for the Russian missile.
It's not just the missiles fault.
Bars radar of su30mki is easier to jam,also has significant clutter.
And pak had ew plane in the area.
And the radar and missile both are old.
Even latest Russian missiles are little bit behind, china.
But little bit only.


As for the radar of su57.
It's an GaAs aesa radar called no36 belka
Its based on su 35's irbis E radar which itself is lot better than su30mki'a no11 Bars radar.
It's the first aesa radar for fighter jets by russia so unproven, but they have experience in aesa tech in other areas, for example russia has developed and in service, early warning, long range surveillance and fire control Aesa radars for ground air defense


And su30mki is not shit that we need to upgrade it, in the last 25+ years avionics tech have evolved too fast.
It's the stupidity to churning out same standard su30 for 20 years.
Even russia moved on to su35 in mid 2010's.
eurofighters are also getting upgraded, as uk and germany made somewhat similar mistake as us, france on the other hand did the right thing, they rafale f1, rafale f2, rafale f3, now rafale f4 and in future rafale f5.
and unlike other countries where block have some advancement, in case of france these blocks had " significantly major upgrades"
Though su57 if we dif the same thing we did for su30mki, then by 2035 su57 will start getting outdated as both f35, j20 are getting continous upgrades.
russia also plans to go this continous upgrade route, that's why are not make a large single order for su57.
So far 76 orders for single seat 57 are given, while work on twin seat su57 has began Russia plans for 200+ by 2035-40.





For su57 The Mission computer is digital, the screen layout makes the cockpit look old.
And the layout is pretty old school looking, but all those screens are lcd, just not arranged together in wide signal display.


And as for the fit and finish, your probably talking about the prototypes again.

Eots= irst(flir) + Laser targeting pod in crystal dome.
Su57 doesn't have crystal dome and laser targeting pod, now crystal dome further help in some more rcs reduction
But for laser targeting there are some people who do question whether laser pods are still useful especially in future with the coming of gps/ins, EO, IR guidance.
Also su57 has side facing aesa radars array, and back facing too, the only one to have these.
It is also the only fighter to have DIRCM right now.

Now f35 will sure smoke su57, even j20 has better chances.
But f22, na.
It's a 30 year old plane that's overhyped.
It's the least capable 5th gen.
Su57 is second least capable one.
Infact the only thing "5th" gen in f22 are stealth and engines.



F22 lacks any irst/eots system.
Su57's irst, with good environmental factor will detect f22 first and track it first.
So russia did "succeeded" in making The raptor killer, though now it has to face f35 lightning2.

Plus f22 uses lot of metal in its construction
By structural weight f22 has about 37% composites, tejas has 50%, f35 has 65%.
Lot more metal, higher ir signature.

That's the reason f22 is undergoing "upgrades" to f35 standard, but avionics upgrades can't provide it the same stealth( yes unlike the propaganda, f22 is less stealthy than f35 from front, f35 is the most stealthy 5th gen fighter jet.) and reduced ir signature as f35, That's the reason usaf is testing those shiny coatings on f22, in an attempt to try to reduce it's ir signature significantly, so it can take on j20 and su57.

If this testing doesn't get any results then most likely f22 with go in retirement home, replace by f35 if usaf wants same stealth role, or f15 ex.
There's a reason there were talks about retiring f22 by 2030's.


For more detail here.
It's high time we better go for our weapons with rafale there is no need to purchase even single french weapon. And if this can't happen and french wont allow us using our mc, weapons then there is much better another option su57 which will cost as it costed in 36 rafale g2g deal.

They are so desperate they have opened all cards they literally offered integration of Indian avionics suit AMCAnised su57 . Which is itself much better than overall rafale.

Su57 with super sukhoi upgrade ew avionics suit would be much better choice for iaf as it wouldn't cost and arm and leg. There would be no need for importing expensive weapons this would drag down cost and would be much more sensible choice than that expensive rafale. Same mission computer as su30upg. so there wouldn't be much software level work instead integration of weapons in iwb of su57. The super sukhoi cost will be brought down as well. This is low hanging fruit as already existing su30 manufacturing plant with little modification can roll out su57s. Russians are so desperate they're offering are now making much more sense than it would before.
My friend. You can scream SU-57 improved in every areas, but it is an mediocre platform since Russians were shit in electronics. We already burned too much money on every Russian projects till now. You buy and it will be shit. You put money and make that turd to work. Happened with SU-30MKI, t-90, INS Vikramadithya with its WW2 era boilers, t-72s.

Russians in then HAL FGFA does not give access to Mission computer. Out of nowhere they will access now. Nice air castle building we are doing for decades now.

I don't want fighters which cannot be integrated within Indian Air command. The Americans will not give those access for an F-35 neither the Russians who declined the access of Mission computer even though HAL was an partner and spend millions on the project.

We are not some Middle east airforce where you can buy aircrafts from everywhere and operate. We need our aircrafts to be fully integrated since the adversary in PLAAF.
Brethen things have changed since then today russians are much desperate to sell su57.
First thing they have already offered Indigeneous sub systems integration. They have clearly stated in aero india 'AMCAnised' su57. If not AMCAnised Even super sukhoi su57 would work. It doesn't matter how shitty russian electronics are if they have allowed us to integrate our systems.

Cherry on top. If this wasn't enough they recently they offered to roll out su57s from nasik with few changes in plant.

Best choice instead of expensive not so future proof rafale would be su57 with super sukhoi. To make rafale future proof you will have to again pay an arm and leg let's not forget how much they charged for mirage upgrade where not even aesa radars were offered.

We can have our Radar absorbing structure along with RAM on it. To reduce its rcs.
Next thing all ew, avionics suit, mc can be indigeneous.
Borrow from super sukhoi.

Recently data patterns unveiled there next iteration of virupaksha radar which had 2700 gan tr modules. Imagine su57 with those powerfull electric output engines we will have huge leap in capability. We can also do quite experiment like adding our eots on it.

And coming to indigeneous weapons integration they had offered it much before all above offers mentioned. While Integration will take take time Which can be done in service.

Su57 have now become much more better option than rafale. It's makes much more sense than expensive rafale. It won't cost much.

We are in very good position to leverage. They have given up all there cards to brings us onboard.
What do you think @BON PLAN where does rafale stand against an AMCAnised su57 as an option?
 
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only rafale fits the bill for 114 MRFA, IAF does not seem to have the institutional maturity to close any other deal with in this 5-10 year timeframe. if news comes out by next year that IAF is planning to conduct trials for F-15 and then take final call, we can take it as IAF is not serious about this project.

there is no way muricans will agree for India specific mods and integration of desi weapon systems on F-15. even if boeing agrees, their congress will block the deal. unnecessary headache.
F-15 selection is idiotic. We already have its competitor SU-30mki.we can extend the order. The engine have shorter working hours. But still we have our own avionics and weapons integrated.

MMRCA supposed to complete by 2012. But it delayed to the point does do we really need an Rafale when AMCA around the corner. ( We can call delay, but there is clear sign that files were holding up by Mod Babus).

MWF is required since it will be go to plane due to ease of maintenance.





how is MWF progressing, without engine supply from GE, these so called squadrons will only exist on paper. we will do TOT TOT jaap and end up getting cucked by muricans.


We have few F414 engines for testing.
 


This 60 squadron jumla is to show everyone that 100+ rafale import won't come in place of mwf and there is space for both. So goi is hoping indigenous crowd will drop protesting against rafale.

Anyways airforce has to grew with economy.

By 2047 we should be 20 trillion economy if we grew at pace of bank FDs.

So I guess with this report and Dassaults decision to start assembly line in India , the plan is set for dual procurement.

Lca mk1a and mwf from HAL and rafale from Dassault line. That should give 24 + 12 == 36 jets per year when Dassaults line is ready . That's what IAF chief was pointing at .
Later Amca and tedbf .

Now let's see if they can actually make it happen. They are trying to reform procurement process to shorten it to 2-3 years. Let's see if it actually happens.

The good thing is that lca mk2 numbers are now almost guaranteed.
 
F-15 selection is idiotic. We already have its competitor SU-30mki.we can extend the order. The engine have shorter working hours. But still we have our own avionics and weapons integrated.

MMRCA supposed to complete by 2012. But it delayed to the point does do we really need an Rafale when AMCA around the corner. ( We can call delay, but there is clear sign that files were holding up by Mod Babus).

MWF is required since it will be go to plane due to ease of maintenance.








We have few F414 engines for testing.
It doesn't matter. It's an open competition so Boeing can participate with their F-15EX if they want as that is their only offering because the production of F/A-18E/F will be over soon.

Even if they participate, they won't win the tenders because of well reasons obviously.
 
F-16 - IAF will never procure it.
F/A-18E - Not being offered now
F-15EX - No to very low chances of winning
Gripen - Again not a chance as our Mk-2 is better than it.
Mig-35 - IAF is not going the Russian route
Typhoon - Too many approvals from different countries
Su-57 - Very low chances to procure

It only leaves Rafale as a finalist (and even though it is just my gut feeling but now it looks like 114 MRFA will indeed come).
 
It's high time we better go for our weapons with rafale there is no need to purchase even single french weapon. And if this can't happen and french wont allow us using our mc, weapons then there is much better another option su57 which will cost as it costed in 36 rafale g2g deal.

They are so desperate they have opened all cards they literally offered integration of Indian avionics suit AMCAnised su57 . Which is itself much better than overall rafale.

Su57 with super sukhoi upgrade ew avionics suit would be much better choice for iaf as it wouldn't cost and arm and leg. There would be no need for importing expensive weapons this would drag down cost and would be much more sensible choice than that expensive rafale. Same mission computer as su30upg. so there wouldn't be much software level work instead integration of weapons in iwb of su57. The super sukhoi cost will be brought down as well. This is low hanging fruit as already existing su30 manufacturing plant with little modification can roll out su57s. Russians are so desperate they're offering are now making much more sense than it would before.

Brethen things have changed since then today russians are much desperate to sell su57.
First thing they have already offered Indigeneous sub systems integration. They have clearly stated in aero india 'AMCAnised' su57. If not AMCAnised Even super sukhoi su57 would work. It doesn't matter how shitty russian electronics are if they have allowed us to integrate our systems.

Cherry on top. If this wasn't enough they recently they offered to roll out su57s from nasik with few changes in plant.

Best choice instead of expensive not so future proof rafale would be su57 with super sukhoi. To make rafale future proof you will have to again pay an arm and leg let's not forget how much they charged for mirage upgrade where not even aesa radars were offered.

We can have our Radar absorbing structure along with RAM on it. To reduce its rcs.
Next thing all ew, avionics suit, mc can be indigeneous.
Borrow from super sukhoi.

Recently data patterns unveiled there next iteration of virupaksha radar which had 2700 gan tr modules. Imagine su57 with those powerfull electric output engines we will have huge leap in capability. We can also do quite experiment like adding our eots on it.

And coming to indigeneous weapons integration they had offered it much before all above offers mentioned. While Integration will take take time Which can be done in service.

Su57 have now become much more better option than rafale. It's makes much more sense than expensive rafale. It won't cost much.

We are in very good position to leverage. They have given up all there cards to brings us onboard.
What do you think @BON PLAN where does rafale stand against an AMCAnised su57 as an option?
Agreed, even a vanilla SU57 is better than Rafale and an MKIed 57 would be far better. If we play our hands right, we might get good know-how of the Russian engine with this deal(far better than farce ToT of Su30). The only reason we might buy Rafale over 57 MKI would be not to upset the West.
 
F-15 selection is idiotic. We already have its competitor SU-30mki.we can extend the order. The engine have shorter working hours. But still we have our own avionics and weapons integrated.

MMRCA supposed to complete by 2012. But it delayed to the point does do we really need an Rafale when AMCA around the corner. ( We can call delay, but there is clear sign that files were holding up by Mod Babus).

MWF is required since it will be go to plane due to ease of maintenance.








We have few F414 engines for testing.
which files are being held up by mod babus ?
 
only rafale fits the bill for 114 MRFA, IAF does not seem to have the institutional maturity to close any other deal with in this 5-10 year timeframe. if news comes out by next year that IAF is planning to conduct trials for F-15 and then take final call, we can take it as IAF is not serious about this project.

there is no way muricans will agree for India specific mods and integration of desi weapon systems on F-15. even if boeing agrees, their congress will block the deal. unnecessary headache.
Just saying, you'll be surprised at how much cooperative US firms have become. Their is serious talk of manufacturing MQ9s here.

F15EX and F35, especially. are top contenders for induction, thanks to very low pricing compared to Rafales. Heck, new F15EXs will cost us less than new build Su30MKIs.

And GE has been persuaded, lets say, to deliver 1 engine a month this year and 20 a year from next year.
 
Agreed, even a vanilla SU57 is better than Rafale and an MKIed 57 would be far better. If we play our hands right, we might get good know-how of the Russian engine with this deal(far better than farce ToT of Su30). The only reason we might buy Rafale over 57 MKI would be not to upset the West.
The SU57 is a joke of a plane.

Its not stealthy, it's radars, EW and weapons package is a generation behind the rafale and even behind what we can make here (Virupaksha and the new MkIII astra).

Theres a reason why the CONGRESS govt walked out after sinking 300 million USD into it. Russian tech is frozen in the 90s after the collapse.
 
Where is f15 talk coming from.

I figured f16(21) was the most likely. The wings already being made in India etc
 
Just saying, you'll be surprised at how much cooperative US firms have become. Their is serious talk of manufacturing MQ9s here.

F15EX and F35, especially. are top contenders for induction, thanks to very low pricing compared to Rafales. Heck, new F15EXs will cost us less than new build Su30MKIs.

And GE has been persuaded, lets say, to deliver 1 engine a month this year and 20 a year from next year.
Even if f15ex is cheaper than su30 mki
But will we get half of freedom we have with su 30 with f 15 i dont think so
 
Even if f15ex is cheaper than su30 mki
But will we get half of freedom we have with su 30 with f 15 i dont think so
How much freedom do you think you have with the Su30? With the F15, or any non Russian aircraft, you know the comm standards, you know the interface bus (MIL STD 1553B ftw) and voila, everything from israeli rampage to Indian SAAW is now open for game.

Why do you think we insisted on Indian mission computers on the MKI?
 

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