Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[Gandaberunda]

I think more than F35, IAF wants Rafale. In fact it has been treating the Russian assets like stepchildren for quite some time now. We could have had a couple of squadrons of Super Sukhoi if the IAF were serious about it, but we have none at hand, which says a lot about the IAF's preference.

Given the Chief's comments and reports, one can deduce that IAF wants Rafle in MMRCA not only as a fighter but also to crush HAL's monopoly by having it manufactured by a private player. They would risk not having Su 57 and F35 for the time being, if Rafale is produced in large numbers(100+ ) by private Indian MIC

IAF wants Fifth Gen jet and if pak acquires then we will have to go for 5th gen F35/ Su-57. IAF wants Rafale ( not peacemeal 18-36 orders but 72-114 MRFA).

 

[Migflug]

IAF wants Fifth Gen jet and if pak acquires then we will have to go for 5th gen F35/ Su-57. IAF wants Rafale ( not peacemeal 18-36 orders but 72-114 MRFA).

Correct, Rafale to break HAL's monopoly, build quality/quantity while F35/57 as a 5th gen Stopgap. But Rafale is still the top most priority ahead of 5th Gens imv

 

[Gandaberunda]

Correct, Rafale to break HAL's monopoly, build quality/quantity while F35/57 as a 5th gen Stopgap. But Rafale is still the top most priority ahead of 5th Gens

HAL has monopoly because India private sector is busy in screwdrivergiri . HAL is just lead integrated for MK1A with all major sub systems are manufactured by private partners. HAL is ready to give up assembly lines to private players for MK2 production and for AMCA private players wasted 3 years and now govt back to HAL but govt still trying for PPP.
Rafale price is almost similar to F35 in overall acquisition and if IAF selects F35 then it’s curtains for Rafale. IAF wants Rafale in numbers and it doesn’t make any sense to procure 4.5+ gen jet over 5th gen jet in numbers.

 

[Azaad]

Correct, Rafale to break HAL's monopoly, build quality/quantity while F35/57 as a 5th gen Stopgap. But Rafale is still the top most priority ahead of 5th Gens imv

We're not getting the F-35. Period. The very fact the ACM- IAF has now made a public announcement stating there's no offer on the table should tell you their thinking else he would've qualified his statement with - there's no offer on the table but since President Trump has indicated the US can offer us the F-35 , we'd be approaching the DoD for further clarifications. Neither has the MoD or any one in the Cabinet made such an observation.

Bottom line - the status quo persists. USAF won't offer us the F-35 directly expecting us to approach them & we won't approach them directly nor would we be taking their baits on indirect offers. End of story.

 

[Gandaberunda]

We're not getting the F-35. Period. The very fact the ACM- IAF has now made a public announcement stating there's no offer on the table should tell you their thinking else he would've qualified his statement with - there's no offer on the table but since President Trump has indicated the US can offer us the F-35 , we'd be approaching the DoD for further clarifications. Neither has the MoD or any one in the Cabinet made such an observation.

Bottom line - the status quo persists. USAF won't offer us the F-35 directly expecting us to approach them & we won't approach them directly nor would we be taking their baits on indirect offers. End of story.

Trump offered F35 because Russians were offering Su 57 joint production and engine development. If we consider to go for fifth gen jets then trump will dangle F35. Also since Trump has announced US DoD will surely offer F35 to us to save the face of POTUS.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

Trump offered F35 because Russians were offering Su 57 joint production and engine development. If we consider to go for fifth gen jets then trump will dangle F35. Also since Trump has announced US DoD will surely offer F35 to us to save the face of POTUS.

You are extremely naive if you think Trump is serious about it. You can't take anything that comes out of Orange Baboon's mouth seriously.

 

[Gandaberunda]

You are extremely naive if you think Trump is serious about it. You can't take anything that comes out of Orange Baboon's mouth seriously.

All the QUAD members operate F35 except India and trump means business. He just wants business to his MIC and F35 sale to India can easily fetch billions. You can’t take anything seriously from his mouth but he is arm twisting us by hugging Modi for his benefits and now tariffs deadline issued despite reducing import duties.

 

[Migflug]

All the QUAD members operate F35 except India and trump means business. He just wants business to his MIC and F35 sale to India can easily fetch billions. You can’t take anything seriously from his mouth but he is arm twisting us by hugging Modi for his benefits and now tariffs deadline issued despite reducing import duties.

But buying F35 would be a disaster for IAF. It is an excellent platform, but we have never operated American fighter aircraft before and we won't be able to integrate it with our Air Force. If bought, it will work as a standalone platform in a silo. We can't this logistical nightmare for the next 4 decades.

 

[randombully]

but we have never operated NATO aircraft before

You may wanna edit this out.

 

[vishmoon]

Astra Mk3 Induction Could Shift India-Pakistan BVRAAM Dynamics, Warns Pakistani Analyst – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

 

[Migflug]

Most of the purchases may well have been done in the Pappu Sr era but they were mostly negotiated for or initiated during IGs era.

Clutterji is devastating in his punchline & this is an indictment on Leaderji's defence policies. Apart from gestures & anodyne statements every Diwali or Dusshera where he marches off to remote locations to spend time with them being filmed to glory by every news channel in India he's actually not reformed the system SUBSTANTIALLY in any way whatsoever.

To make matters worse the only one effective DM he's had in his cabinet the late MP bolted to Goa the first chance he got with the result his predecessors or successors have mostly been place holders reflecting in the policies & actions of the MoD.

Apparently talk is the MRFA tender is to be revived . Furthermore defence reforms will entail that procurement procedures lasting a decade or more will now HAVE to be closed in a couple of years at the most , Israel style , where no requirements last for more than 2-3 years meaning that official requirements once issued by the armed forces are met either thru local mfg or by buying from external sources within 2-3 years.

Marry the 2 together & you could have an agreement on the MRFA by 2028 whereas we're supposed to go up against China by 2030 .

Why wasn't this done all these years then especially since the previous ACM Chaudhari was adamant he wanted the MRFA tender expedited ?

Shows us the seriousness of this administration on such a critical matter of one of the arms of our forces confronted as we are by 2 N powers at our borders where those borders are live & expected to get more alive if there's such a term or livelier , in the next few years.

Absolutely pathetic state of affairs !

The government got the cold feet after allegations of the Rafale scam. Had that not happened, we would have been in a much better state today.
One thing I dislike about this government is the staggered approach to buying stuff which has led to many cost overruns.

 

[Migflug]

Trick or retreat: There’s a grand deception behind Indian military shortfalls, and in this column

It is fashionable to curse Rajiv Gandhi for Bofors and more, but the truth is that 1985-89 was the only period in our history when weapons acquisitions were proactive and futuristic.

theprint.in

View: https://youtu.be/8XDhhY7wFCA

 

[randombully]

Astra Mk3 Induction Could Shift India-Pakistan BVRAAM Dynamics, Warns Pakistani Analyst – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Could? Unless they buy a stealth jet.
It "definitely will".
It's not like Meteor limited to 36 rafale only

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

Could? Unless they buy a stealth jet.
It "definitely will".
It's not like Meteor limited to 36 rafale only

combination of good radar, effective numbers can counter Sealth jets too. Air defence is expensive , thus pakfauj will have to bend a lot of infront of chings to get them. project kusha AD should be inducted in heavy numbers.

 

[randombully]

combination of good radar, effective numbers can counter Sealth jets too. Air defence is expensive , thus pakfauj will have to bend a lot of infront of chings to get them. project kusha AD should be inducted in heavy numbers.

Yeah pak even with 2-3 squads of stealth jets is not that big of a head ache.
Tho china is, because of of massive no. Of stealth jets and able to fully utilize their capabilities.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

> ACM has clarified that IAF is not looking at F-35, neither has received an acceptable offer.
> ACM has clarified PAF is likely to get a 5th gen bird (J35).
> ACM has NOT clarified what platform they want right now to counter it.

>Has IAF decided that Rafales would be enough for job ?

>Or are they wink winking GoI to pursue a highly customized Su-57MKI packed with Indian AESA radar/Avionics and weapons ?

Because there are no other 5th gen options that IAF can get their hands on within a decade.​

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

> ACM has clarified that IAF is not looking at F-35, neither has received an acceptable offer.
> ACM has clarified PAF is likely to get a 5th gen bird (J35).
> ACM has NOT clarified what platform they want right now to counter it.

>Has IAF decided that Rafales would be enough for job ?

>Or are they wink winking GoI to pursue a highly customized Su-57MKI packed with Indian AESA radar/Avionics and weapons ?

Because there are no other 5th gen options that IAF can get their hands on within a decade.​

Su-57 mki might sound most logical here, but how many can ruskies make rn, shifting production lines here would take time, then thereis time to modify the whole platform, if we start working on su-57 from today, its gonna take a decade.

 

[randombully]

Su-57 mki might sound most logical here, but how many can ruskies make rn, shifting production lines here would take time, then thereis time to modify the whole platform, if we start working on su-57 from today, its gonna take a decade.

Get few squads of ruski su57 from Russia, while domestic production and mki varient is being developed.
If deal signed this year, than then delivery of russian su57 starts by 2027-2028, production facility modification done by 2028-2029, the testing of mki varient completed by 2029-2030, production of mki varient from 2030, by 2030 time we should have received 20-30 russisn standard su57 from Russia, from then on start receiving mki varient.
By 2035, 80-100 su57 in service.
( 20-30 russian su57, 50-80 su57 mki).
Then amca production start.

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

Get few squads of ruski su57 from Russia, while domestic production and mki varient is being developed.
If deal signed this year, than then delivery of russian su57 starts by 2027-2028, production facility modification done by 2028-2029, the testing of mki varient completed by 2029-2030, production of mki varient from 2030, by 2030 time we should have received 20-30 russisn standard su57 from Russia, from then on start receiving mki varient.
By 2035, 80-100 su57 in service.
( 20-30 russian su57, 50-80 su57 mki).
Then amca production start.

russians barely have 2 squadrons of them, i doubt they can deliver us by 2027-28, mki variant is definitely not getting manufactured by 2030.

 

[randombully]

russians barely have 2 squadrons of them, i doubt they can deliver us by 2027-28, mki variant is definitely not getting manufactured by 2030.

They have 2 squads because that's what their vks ordered, after 2 squads with al41 engine, vks wants all other jets to come with al51 engine( delay happened, but now development of engine complete, preparation for full swing production going on), also Algeria has put orders for su57( with al41 engine, sources say about 14 are ordered) engine, which are currently being produced and helps the production line stay active, it's expect that by mid 2026, 6 su57 will be delivered to Algeria.
Su57 with al51 should start being delivered to vks from 2026, at the start delivery of su57 for vks will be slow, as they they Will produced along side su57 for Alegria, later su 57's production is planned to cross 20+ jets per year.