Indian Air Force: News & Discussions

[RocketMan]

Indian MoD Opens Door for Russia in AMCA Engine Development – Indian Defence Research Wing

idrw.org

Su 57 mki with indian weapons & sensor package could be excellent option while we bulk up numbers with Tejas/ Mk II/ AMCA . 60 squadrons is a pipe dream , it'd be a miracle if we even have 20 squadrons by 2030.

 

[randombully]

Using NonLO FA as a benchmark to compare FGFA and higher standards is flawed to begin with ?
Benchmark should be oldest FGFA ie F22 or at least commercially available FGFA ie F35

Using NonLO FA as a benchmark to compare FGFA and higher standards is flawed to begin with ?
Benchmark should be oldest FGFA ie F22 or at least commercially available FGFA ie F35

nice point *BUT* in mrfa it's between rafale and su57.
We aren't getting f35, as while best option, it will come with amriki strings and the so called kill switch.

Tho, if you wanna quick and simple comparison between 5th gen.
F22<Su57<j20<f35.
Why f22 last? Its the most outdated 5th gen, no irst/eots( massive disadvantage), no Das etc.
Like one f35 maintainer Said, the difference between 2020+ f35 and mid2010s f35s feels like difference between f15C/D(su30mki standard) and latest f15EX, and f22 is even older.
So yeah russia did successfully made " raptor killer" in the end, but US now has f35 lightning II, the most stealthy( yeah f35 is more stealthy than f22, unlike the false propaganda) and most advance fighter in the world.
Infact if f22 is used as a bench mark of 5th gen then it's not wrong to call f35 and even j20 as 5.5+ gen.
Rafale f4 for example is more advanced even than f22 later blocks( except stealth).

 

[ArjunMK1A]

which files are being held up by mod babus ?

DRDO P-76 submarine project.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

Also the so called Offset thing is always a scam from Every country.

Russians.

https://www.business-standard.com/article/economy-policy/lockheed-offsets-mock-mod-norms-110121000031_1.html?utm_source=chatgpt.com

French with Scorpene. (ToT on paper)

 

[Bleh]

View: https://x.com/alpha_defense/status/1899487672697081961?t=1uvoCP8KSwnvAkDZkWhSYw&s=19

View: https://x.com/RishiChatt/status/1899811150390563203

Also opinion poll:

With the level of tech already ready for AMCA & MWF, shouldn't we roll out a downgraded AMCA ASAP, if possible with MWF?... Yes, it won't be 5th Gen but still a twin-F414 fighter with IWB & some of the stealth subsystems that are already here.

Sure it'll use IRST, but it's still be better than every jet in IAF at 2030.

 

[johny_baba]

perhaps the best way to make up some squadron numbers is to get desi Mig-21-esque fighter jet, means a conventional design jet made of conventional alloy with modern avionics, electronics
HAL's HLFT-42 design is sufficient for that, just fork that design for RD-33MK and mass manufacture it till we get other designs like Tejas MK2, AMCA, TEDBF and all ready

 

[Bleh]

perhaps the best way to make up some squadron numbers is to get desi Mig-21-esque fighter jet, means a conventional design jet made of conventional alloy with modern avionics, electronics
HAL's HLFT-42 design is sufficient for that, just fork that design for RD-33MK and mass manufacture it till we get other designs like Tejas MK2, AMCA, TEDBF and all ready

We'll have:
1. Optionally manned Mig-21, Kiran etc.
2. Unmanned wingmans
3. Drones like Ghatak
4. Manned Ghatak idea might take off (bombers)
5. Maybe LIFT platform instead of Hawk-i
6. Actual fighter jets.

Counting all 60 sqn. of 1080 are doable

 

[randombully]

perhaps the best way to make up some squadron numbers is to get desi Mig-21-esque fighter jet, means a conventional design jet made of conventional alloy with modern avionics, electronics
HAL's HLFT-42 design is sufficient for that, just fork that design for RD-33MK and mass manufacture it till we get other designs like Tejas MK2, AMCA, TEDBF and all ready

Hlft 42 is larger than tejas mk2, and with metal- even heavier.
Will need al31/al41 class engine for it.

But if we're going for this.
Then much better to develop another varient of tejasmk2 powered by a non US engine of same category as f414 or slightly bigger.

Tho both with not happen.

 

[johny_baba]

perhaps the best way to make up some squadron numbers is to get desi Mig-21-esque fighter jet, means a conventional design jet made of conventional alloy with modern avionics, electronics
HAL's HLFT-42 design is sufficient for that, just fork that design for RD-33MK and mass manufacture it till we get other designs like Tejas MK2, AMCA, TEDBF and all ready

there's another factor, like a slight hunch, cue 'economy' threads and discussions

say, if Mr. Trump's tariff gambling drags them down (and with them, us and everyone heavily dependent on globalised form of economies too)...at certain critical point in future can we, like, 'arm twist' them for big orders with proper offers on tech sharing if not outright ToT regd engine tech?

in other words, how's our ability to coerce economically struggling tech giants to give us what we want for some monies?

 

[iNorthernerOn9]

What's the update on Netra MK2?

I remember... like until 6 months ago people used to post the satellite imagery of the 6x ex Air India A-320's parked on some airport... are they still there?

When we will see the 1st aircraft rollout?

 

[vampyrbladez]

My gut feeling is that India will go for :

F 35 : 35-40 aircraft in the late 2020s to early 2030s. Lots of EU countries may back out due to Trump and GCAP availability by the mid 2030s.

Su 30 MKI : Upgraded variants (260 + 12 new orders) + tentatively 40 more as proposed by HAL previously upto early 2030s

Tejas MK1A : (83 + 97) Point defense, Trainer, CAP, A2G upto early 2030s

Tejas MK2 : 120-180 aircraft to replace all Mig 29s and Mirage 2000s by early to mid 2030s

AMCA : 40 aircraft in early 2030s to 80-100 by late 2030s closing off at around 200 aircraft by 2040.

Rafale : Possible order of 36 more by late 2020s to early 2030s to secure production line and spares and prevent another Mirage 2000.

AHCA/FXX (6th generation) : 20-30 aircraft (prototypes and LSP variants) by late 2030a to early 2040s.

 

[Spitfire IX]

My gut feeling is that India will go for :

AMCA : 40 aircraft in early 2030s to 80-100 by late 2030s closing off at around 200 aircraft by 2040.

AHCA/FXX (6th generation) : 20-30 aircraft (prototypes and LSP variants) by late 2030a to early 2040s.
by late 2030a to early 2040s.

AMCA : 40 aircraft in early 2030s? Not with the current system of build prototypes/test prototypes/decide to manufacture/negotiate price with manufacturer/order from manufacturer/build assembly plant/manufacture. 2040+ for 40 AMCA IMO.

Why? My guesses:

2028 AMCA FF
2031 finish testing
2032 decide to manufacture
203? price negotiated and order placed
203? assembly plant built
203? start assembly

No chance of 40 aircraft being produced in early 30's IMO.

AHCA by late 3030's? I would push that back to 2050's.

 

[vampyrbladez]

AMCA : 40 aircraft in early 2030s? Not with the current system of build prototypes/test prototypes/decide to manufacture/negotiate price with manufacturer/order from manufacturer/build assembly plant/manufacture. 2040+ for 40 AMCA IMO.

Why? My guesses:

2028 AMCA FF
2031 finish testing
2032 decide to manufacture
203? price negotiated and order placed
203? assembly plant built
203? start assembly

No chance of 40 aircraft being produced in early 30's IMO.

AHCA by late 3030's? I would push that back to 2050's.

Timeline per my estimates :

• Early 2025 - Full scale mockup (EMD)
• Late 2026 -Early 27 - Rollout
• Late 2027 -Early 2028 - First Flight
• Late 2031-Early 2032 - IOC Achieved
• Late 2032-Early 2033 - Limited Series Production/ Induction
• 2033 - First Squadron
• 2034 - Second Squadron
• 2035 - FOC Achieved
• 2038 - AMCA Mk.1 production completed at 100+ aircraft (20/yr)
• 2038 - AMCA Mk.2 IOC (?)

 

[aim120]

From first flight of AMCA to IOC will be a minimum of 10 years.

 

[AbRaj]

nice point *BUT* in mrfa it's between rafale and su57.

Original MRFA competitors were F16,Mig29 and M2000. Later iAF changed its ASQR because all of the contenders were near obsolescence (4th gen std) in view of newer entrants(what is unofficially called 4.5 gen std) like F21/F18, EFT, Rafale and as per Russians Mig35. If one is hell bent on buying 10 year old hardware, why not go for few more years back and buy F16 or Mig 29 which will be available at chump change compared to French overpriced and outdated crap.

We aren't getting f35, as while best option, it will come with amriki strings and the so called kill switch.

Those at the helm of affairs know better. Why propagate your own opinion as facts.

Tho, if you wanna quick and simple comparison between 5th gen.
F22<Su57<j20<f35.
Why f22 last? Its the most outdated 5th gen, no irst/eots( massive disadvantage), no Das etc.

F22 has many stuff, even F35 and Su57 don’t.

Like one f35 maintainer Said, the difference between 2020+ f35 and mid2010s f35s feels like difference between f15C/D(su30mki standard) and latest f15EX, and f22 is even older.

So is every other successful fighter program like F16, Mig21 etc. Its good that its being upgraded at rapid pace to iron out if deficiencies

So yeah russia did successfully made " raptor killer" in the end,

Russia didn’t made shit. F22 even one on one dogfight can kill Su57 in 8/10 times and lets not go to BVR in which Russians suck big time(Su30….F16……AMRAAM dodgers ….).Its a big lumbering metal piece in the sky against any competent FGFA.

but US now has f35 lightning II, the most stealthy( yeah f35 is more stealthy than f22, unlike the false propaganda) and most advance fighter in the world.

I don’t think so. F22 is a secret weapon of USAF unlike F35 for a reason.

Infact if f22 is used as a bench mark of 5th gen then it's not wrong to call f35 and even j20 as 5.5+ gen.
Rafale f4 for example is more advanced even than f22 later blocks( except stealth).

According to some French conmen only. Spectra is an over glorified DRFM EWS, not much different from Viper shield of F16 or DASS of EFT, or Gripen’s Arexis. Even Mig35 has one, as per Russians.

 

[randombully]

F22 has many stuff, even F35 and Su57 don’t

Such as?

Russia didn’t made shit. F22 even one on one dogfight can kill Su57 in 8/10 times and lets not go to BVR in which Russians suck big time(Su30….F16……AMRAAM dodgers ….).Its a big lumbering metal piece in the sky against any competent FGFA.

Well then, F22 ain't shit, I guess.
Where did you get the dog fight statistic from?
How does russia suck at bvr?
you are aware that pak had ew plane in the area right?

I don’t think so. F22 is a secret weapon of USAF unlike F35 for a reason.

If you don't think so your wrong then,
Secret weapon?


The fuck?
Secret weapon, lmao.

According to some French conmen only. Spectra is an over glorified DRFM EWS, not much different from Viper shield of F16 or DASS of EFT, or Gripen’s Arexis. Even Mig35 has one, as per Russians.

Rafale also has irst( f22 lacks it), rafale also has fso(f22 lacks it), spectra EW is better than an/alq 94 of f22, latest f16 blk72 vipers have more advanced versions of an/alq 94 ew suites.
F22 right now can't even use data link to guide the missile of another jet, rafale can, f35 can, su57 can, gripen E can, j16 can.

 

[AbRaj]

Such as?

Design- F-22A is a dedicated Air Superiority fighter
Super cruise-and very high power to wait ratio, giving it immense advantage in enemy engagements and survivability.
Thrust vectoring
It has specialised Electronic attack variant

Well then, F22 ain't shit, I guess.
Where did you get the dog fight statistic from?

Simulaton as per interviews of F22 pilots
(8/10 is not the exact number they said but something like that. They have videos on Youtube)

How does russia suck at bvr?

Inferior Radar
Inferior SPJ and EWS
Inferior missiles
Result :AMRAAM Dodgers medals to the pilots or if unfortunate Param Vir Chakra

you are aware that pak had ew plane in the area right?

Even India has assets in air. But result was ANRAAM shooting down Mig 21 and others like Su30 qnd Mirage2000 running away

If you don't think so your wrong then,
Secret weapon?


The fuck?
Secret weapon, lmao.

What part of the word Secret weapon you are not able to comprehend ?

secret weapon | meaning of secret weapon in Longman Dictionary of Contemporary English | LDOCE

secret weapon meaning, definition, what is secret weapon: something that will help you gain a big ...: Learn more.

www.ldoceonline.com

Rafale also has irst( f22 lacks it), rafale also has fso(f22 lacks it),

LOL again another French gimmick. FSO and IRST are basically same thing ( with additional camera for visual cueing) and Russians have been using it since many decades. Every 4th gen fighter now has it.
And its also available for F22 as a mission pod.

spectra EW is better than an/alq 94 of f22, latest f16 blk72 vipers have more advanced versions of an/alq 94 ew suites.

Its idiotic to even think that what is available on Maruti 800 can’t be done with Maruti Grand Vitara

F22 right now can't even use data link to guide the missile of another jet

but it can with Another F22 and E2D or E3.
Its just a compatibility issue

, rafale can, f35 can, su57 can, gripen E can, j16 can.