Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

shade2 said:
Any of y'all nibbiars know the story of how Navy turned from (((buyer's navy))) to 🗿 builders navy 🗿

All i know is there is a certain Warship Design Bureau and they design the ships + decide which parts to procure or co-develop, and the actual building work goes to some DPSU shipyard.

As of now most of our surface fleet is built in Indian shipyards only based on Navy made designs.

I don't know which Mahatma Admiral created this design bureau however or what was the Navy's motivation considering there is a lot of malai to be had in importing warships from foreign vendors( France, Italy, Germoney, Holland and ofc Roosi all sell warships ).

Navy overall even has a good progression from importing requirement to indeginization, case in point that our INS Vikramaditya which was a modified Soviet "aircraft carrying cruiser" to the current INS Vikrant which is a purpose build Aircraft Carrier.

Out of the 3 only Navy seems to be the serious force about it's requirements, unfortunately it is least likely to see action in war time
Click to expand...
Theres this wonderful series of book by Vice Admiral GM Hiranandani called the Transitions series.

Transition to Triumph, Transition to Eminence and Transition to Guardianship that cover the history of the Navy to the 2000s from its origin. Its freely available at the Navy's website. Thats the most detailed and thorough coverage of the topic from the horse's mouth.


In brief though, the IN realised that the govt will GASLIGHT the shit out of the navy's budget thanks to our principal and primary threats being entirely land and air based - and thus from the need to getting the most out of the money that they were allocated, the IN decided from the 50s to build here.

Also good thing was that the british left enough infrastructure in India that basic repair and refurbishing skills were there insitu by default, so you had a small corps of skilled people by default and the navy was tightly integrated with shipyards from the get go.

Then the next smart thing IN did was to send some engineer qualified officers to the british yards for integration into the leander project - and that allowed them to modify on their own without british involvement the last two ships, Taragiri and Vindhyagiri, and give those ships the ability to operate the huge Seaking helos.

This modification was done by the then new Naval Design Bureau whose core team was ex British trained officers who had gone to the british yards to learn on the job.

Then we modified some Type 12 ASW frigates (ex RN) to take Russian missiles and FCR from the Osa class missile boats - which added to the IN's confidence (much to the stupefied shock of both the Brits and the Soviets)

and then P16 (Godavari class) just kicked open the doors to building everything here.
 
Binayak95 said:
Theres this wonderful series of book by Vice Admiral GM Hiranandani called the Transitions series.

Transition to Triumph, Transition to Eminence and Transition to Guardianship that cover the history of the Navy to the 2000s from its origin. Its freely available at the Navy's website. Thats the most detailed and thorough coverage of the topic from the horse's mouth.


In brief though, the IN realised that the govt will GASLIGHT the shit out of the navy's budget thanks to our principal and primary threats being entirely land and air based - and thus from the need to getting the most out of the money that they were allocated, the IN decided from the 50s to build here.

Also good thing was that the british left enough infrastructure in India that basic repair and refurbishing skills were there insitu by default, so you had a small corps of skilled people by default and the navy was tightly integrated with shipyards from the get go.

Then the next smart thing IN did was to send some engineer qualified officers to the british yards for integration into the leander project - and that allowed them to modify on their own without british involvement the last two ships, Taragiri and Vindhyagiri, and give those ships the ability to operate the huge Seaking helos.

This modification was done by the then new Naval Design Bureau whose core team was ex British trained officers who had gone to the british yards to learn on the job.

Then we modified some Type 12 ASW frigates (ex RN) to take Russian missiles and FCR from the Osa class missile boats - which added to the IN's confidence (much to the stupefied shock of both the Brits and the Soviets)

and then P16 (Godavari class) just kicked open the doors to building everything here.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply, didn't know that IN started this early and it was incremental development from foreign ship modifications to fully domestically designed and built ships

I used to assume that in the 70s-80s they may have decided this and directly started the Warship Design Bureau + domestic shipbuilding since iirc first domestically build ships started from the 90s onwards.

Wish the other two armed forces wings were also like this, pursuing incremental development of whatever they need.
 
Why is Indian Navy behaving like Import Air Force in case of Recent SSK drama? Why is that there is no confidence of DRDO AIP? I mean you have to start from somewhere right? How is importing a proven AIP related to capability building? Its not like they will serve its secrets on silver platter. I hope even if gone ahead, they select Navantia because TKMS maybe using this deal for Corporate Bullshit and everything on its is only on Papers. More so, L&T gets to build and they absorb this experience to far greater degree unlike PSU MDL which squandered two opportunities and still can't make a SSK.
 
Is there some problem with the P75I submarine program again?

Two articles from couple of days back


theprint.in

Field evaluation trials or price discovery: Germany and Spain await key decision on India’s mega submarine project

Navy is looking to acquire six new submarines with Air Independent Propulsion technology, which allows vessels to stay underwater for longer periods.
theprint.in theprint.in

Last i had heard a theory either here or on some news site that the requirements are designed to make the German AIP/Sub win but these articles seem to say that even the Germans won't match the requirements?
 
shade2 said:
Is there some problem with the P75I submarine program again?

Two articles from couple of days back


theprint.in

Field evaluation trials or price discovery: Germany and Spain await key decision on India’s mega submarine project

Navy is looking to acquire six new submarines with Air Independent Propulsion technology, which allows vessels to stay underwater for longer periods.
theprint.in theprint.in

Last i had heard a theory either here or on some news site that the requirements are designed to make the German AIP/Sub win but these articles seem to say that even the Germans won't match the requirements?
Click to expand...
Just the usual fuckery of
>Wants product
>Tries to buy it from foreign suppliers
>Starts a competition
>Forgets the first rule of buying weapons which is you will never get what you want on specifications and compromises are needed.
>A lot of companies exit the competition because of strict specifications
>The deal get hyped and politicised and national governments of the companies step in
>Nobody passes
>Either cancel or make a compromise that will piss the loosing country.
 
mist_consecutive said:
Do we have a design ready for indigenious SSNs ? Or will it just be Arihant minus Silos ?
Click to expand...
timesofindia.indiatimes.com

India clears two mega defence projects for 2 indigenous nuclear submarines & 31 Predator drones | India News - Times of India

India News: The Indian government has approved a major project to build two nuclear-powered submarines and acquire 31 MQ-9B Predator drones from the US, costing a
timesofindia.indiatimes.com timesofindia.indiatimes.com

"It will take around 10-12years for the first SSN, with a 190 MW pressurised light-water reactor and a displacement of almost 10,000-tonne, to roll out."

"Apart from anti-ship missiles and torpedoes to take out enemy warships and submarines, they will also have land-attack cruise missiles."
 
Adm_Kenobi said:
A serious matter of concern, BHEL needs to expand its production capacity to support the construction of new hulls. 32-33 new ships will require SRGM in the next ~10 years.

6 NGMV, 11 NGOPV, 8 NGC, 7-8 P-17A
Not including -
3 CTS, 2+2 MPV, possibility or SRGM on 6+6 ICG NGOPV.

It's time for us to look for another vendor for SRGM.
Click to expand...
Isn’t Kalyani defence getting into that foray ?

BHEL will always work on TOT from OEM they will never come up with their own gun.

It’s time that part of the business will go to private firm going forward.
 
Corvus Splendens said:
To carry 8x Brahmos and 32x MRSAM. Waste of tonnage. Absolutely infuriates me, when IN is supposed to compete with PLAN qualitatively.
View attachment 8392
Click to expand...
Higher tonnage in Indian context is designed due to longer deployment cycles I am assuming !!!

1.2 billion is way more then what it should cost, purely a shortcoming of manufacturing and management skills.
 
www.indiatoday.in

India, US sign Rs 32,000-crore deal for 31 Predator drones

The development comes less than a month after Prime Minister Narendra Modi and US President Joe Biden held talks about the acquisition of the Predator drones on the sidelines of the Quad Leaders' Summit held in Delaware.
www.indiatoday.in www.indiatoday.in

Deal is signed, do we pay the Jaziya all at once, or in installments depending on delivery of the drones?
 
shade2 said:
www.indiatoday.in

India, US sign Rs 32,000-crore deal for 31 Predator drones

The development comes less than a month after Prime Minister Narendra Modi and US President Joe Biden held talks about the acquisition of the Predator drones on the sidelines of the Quad Leaders' Summit held in Delaware.
www.indiatoday.in www.indiatoday.in

Deal is signed, do we pay the Jaziya all at once, or in installments depending on delivery of the drones?
Click to expand...
Jaziya……. Choose your words carefully.
 
Hari Sud said:
Jaziya……. Choose your words carefully.
Click to expand...

Yes it's the correct word for "purchases" from Uncle Sam.

Perhaps the most on the nose was for those 6 Apaches

There is a reason a majority of the pew-pew and boom-boom platforms used across the 3 forces come from Russia, France, Israel or other countries but not from the US.
 
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