Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[AbRaj]

There are too many accidents in the Navy!!

Tripathi ji is busy thinking about welfare of Pakistan right now. No time for “small incidents” like these. Apparently it happens. Relax and talk future, not present

 

[jaijaganath]

Mumbai Boat Accident LIVE Updates: Survivor Files FIR Against Navy Speedboat Driver & Others​

Mumbai Boat Accident LIVE Updates: Survivor Files FIR Against Navy Speedboat Driver & Others - News18

Mumbai Boat Accident LIVE Updates: 13 Killed, 101 Rescued After Navy Speedboat Rams Ferry

www.news18.com

Ferry disaster passenger accuses Indian navy vessel of ‘showing off’ before crash

Ten civilians and 3 navy personnel killed

www.independent.co.uk

AFP News

doc.afp.com

I don't understand why these news channels and articles so eager to report which tends to be false most of the time
Navy has said it has lost 1 operator not 3

About incident it was a blunder to conduct tests in such waters where ferries and small ships are common

Better sop needs to be formed for such testing

 

[vampyrbladez]

Tripathi ji is busy thinking about welfare of Pakistan right now. No time for “small incidents” like these. Apparently it happens. Relax and talk future, not present

MODS : Can we cut down on the ragebait

@haldilal @Indx TechStyle @Blademaster

 

[Blademaster]

MODS : Can we cut down on the ragebait

@haldilal @Indx TechStyle @Blademaster[/USER
[/QUOTE]

Considering that it happened yesterday and people including members need to process their shock and anger at the loss of lives, there’s no need for us to step in as you ask for.

 

[Binayak95]

Considering that it happened yesterday and people including members need to process their shock and anger at the loss of lives, there’s no need for us to step in as you ask for.

This is not the place for using shock and anger to call names and be derisive.

Lets maintain standards, shall we? I am not consciously not engaging such posts, but it leaves a sour taste in the mouth nonetheless.

 

[Nutcracker]

Our all forces need a serious revamp of SOPs, even that Sub collision with fishing boat could've been avoided if there was an escort boat to shoo off the foolishly curious fishermen.

 

[Blademaster]

This is not the place for using shock and anger to call names and be derisive.

Lets maintain standards, shall we? I am not consciously not engaging such posts, but it leaves a sour taste in the mouth nonetheless.

Sorry but the anger and bile over 14 people dead greatly outweights the sentiments of a few butt hurt egos of several naval officers who cannot withstand any kind of scrutiny. Hell if this happened in the US, people would be calling for the Navy admirals' heads to roll and several heads would have been rolled by now. See how many naval officers were forced to step down or resign after any maritime accident. I have visited several US military forums similar to this one and they had no qualms expressing anger and hurling abuse against the military leaders.

14 people died and people want accountability and want to express anger. People call our elected leaders names and other stuff. If our elected leaders can easily shrug them off and not be butt hurted, then military officers are expected of the same. Look at the abuse hurled against Ashwin Vashinwav after that train derailment tragedy. Do you see him acting as butt hurt by those abuse? No he withstood them and understood public anger.

We are a democracy and we demand accountability of our leaders and servants. We are not like Pakistan where the armed forces is sacrosanct and any criticism is not allowed. See what Pakistan has end up like.

 

[shiphone]

something interesting...

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OtoBreda 76/62SR super rapid gun with DAVIDE/STRALES system for DART guided ammunition

 

[rohitb3]

No full picture of Nilgiri?

 

[Ayan Barat]

Can someone tell me how good (or bad) our CIWS [CIW System, not just the guns] are across our different vessels?

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Can someone tell me how good (or bad) our CIWS [CIW System, not just the guns] are across our different vessels?

I mean we only have 30mil rotary gun based CIWS. Every other serious navy has diversified goalkeepers. Like the RIM-116.



As for our AK-630s, only the P-15A/B class destroyers have decent firing coverage with 4 guns, and they sit at a lower point on the superstructure. Shivaliks have 2, Delhi class has 2 per ship, the new Nilgiris have 2, Talwars have 2. And a single BEL Lynx U2 lays every gun on each ship.


And even then the localized tracking performance of the AK630 doesn't compare to a Phalanx. Phalanx fires a lighter caliber from a slightly longer barrel with more muzzle velocity.


Then you have the chinese here blasting 30mil from an 11 barreled rotary gun. With integrated fire control radar and EO pods for each individual gun.


We don't have that for our AK-630s.


Then they also have their RIM-116 analog, HQ-10 to fall back to.


In short, our CIWS game is lacking.

 

[Ayan Barat]

And a single BEL Lynx U2 lays every gun on each ship

Bingo Crow Fren...you're pretty close to the exact issue I'm trying to point out.
(This was the only reason I emphasised on the whole system instead of just the gun)

 

[AbRaj]

it leaves a sour taste in the mouth nonetheless.

Least it should do is to make them feel responsible for lost lives, as intended and not just bad taste but we expect some actions too by our forces. People are loosing lives and resources due to this culture of extreme unprofessionalism. We provide hard earned money expecting them to value it and not to sink either in harbours or crash them with civilian boats killings themselves and civics in process.
PS: it mayn’t be the appropriate thread to express these incident and for that my apologies to mods in advance.

 

[AbRaj]

I mean we only have 30mil rotary gun based CIWS. Every other serious navy has diversified goalkeepers. Like the RIM-116.
View attachment 19136


As for our AK-630s, only the P-15A/B class destroyers have decent firing coverage with 4 guns, and they sit at a lower point on the superstructure. Shivaliks have 2, Delhi class has 2 per ship, the new Nilgiris have 2, Talwars have 2. And a single BEL Lynx U2 lays every gun on each ship.
View attachment 19142

And even then the localized tracking performance of the AK630 doesn't compare to a Phalanx. Phalanx fires a lighter caliber from a slightly longer barrel with more muzzle velocity.
View attachment 19141

Then you have the chinese here blasting 30mil from an 11 barreled rotary gun. With integrated fire control radar and EO pods for each individual gun.
View attachment 19137

We don't have that for our AK-630s.
View attachment 19140

Then they also have their RIM-116 analog, HQ-10 to fall back to.
View attachment 19138

In short, our CIWS game is lacking.

Do we have any local RIM 116 analogue in development?

 

[AbRaj]

Sorry but the anger and bile over 14 people dead greatly outweights the sentiments of a few butt hurt egos of several naval officers who cannot withstand any kind of scrutiny. Hell if this happened in the US, people would be calling for the Navy admirals' heads to roll and several heads would have been rolled by now. See how many naval officers were forced to step down or resign after any maritime accident. I have visited several US military forums similar to this one and they had no qualms expressing anger and hurling abuse against the military leaders.

14 people died and people want accountability and want to express anger. People call our elected leaders names and other stuff. If our elected leaders can easily shrug them off and not be butt hurted, then military officers are expected of the same. Look at the abuse hurled against Ashwin Vashinwav after that train derailment tragedy. Do you see him acting as butt hurt by those abuse? No he withstood them and understood public anger.

We are a democracy and we demand accountability of our leaders and servants. We are not like Pakistan where the armed forces is sacrosanct and any criticism is not allowed. See what Pakistan has end up like.

And engine failure story is total BS. The pilot was behaving like a reckless maniac like those KTM chapri bikers and probably misjudged the capability of boat and himself. What’s more pathetic is people trying to suppress voices even after series of high profile mishaps just because it puts sour taste in their mouth. They love jai ho

 

[Ayan Barat]

Do we have any local RIM 116 analogue in development?

No, not exactly. Our naval doctrine is slightly inclined towards the Soviet one and they always had a bit iffy history of naval air defence.

There's isn't any system that can be classified as a direct analogue, the closest we can get is VSHORAD. But just to get an idea of the difference between RIM-116 and VSHORAD; just the warhead of 116 weighs 11kg and the total weight of VSHORAD is 20kg.

 

[AbRaj]

No, not exactly. Our naval doctrine is slightly inclined towards the Soviet one and they always had a bit iffy history of naval air defence.

There's isn't any system that can be classified as a direct analogue, the closest we can get is VSHORAD. But just to get an idea of the difference between RIM-116 and VSHORAD; just the warhead of 116 weighs 11kg and the total weight of VSHORAD is 20kg.

Can it be done by modifying something we already have with minimum effort ? And what else will be needed besides the projectile?
Also looking at the pictures of USN and PLAN CIWS, ours look like ancient

 

[bakofbakchod]

And engine failure story is total BS. The pilot was behaving like a reckless maniac like those KTM chapri bikers and probably misjudged the capability of boat and himself. What’s more pathetic is people trying to suppress voices even after series of high profile mishaps just because it puts sour taste in their mouth. They love jai ho

Since when have any of the armed forces ever taken responsibility? Shooting own helicopter down, killing our own CDS due to 'pilot error', getting 'surprised' every other year, sinking multiple ships at dockyards, multiple onboard fires due to short circuits, killing hundreds of jawans before a war even starts due to faulty mines and munitions. Add this to the list. Top generals are more interested in demanding respect and people going saaar saaar, then ever taking responsibility.



You would think India would have the world's biggest navy looking at the number of accidents in this list.

 

[AbRaj]

Since when have any of the armed forces ever taken responsibility? Shooting own helicopter down, killing our own CDS due to 'pilot error', getting 'surprised' every other year, sinking multiple ships at dockyards, multiple onboard fires due to short circuits, killing hundreds of jawans before a war even starts due to faulty mines and munitions. Add this to the list. Top generals are more interested in demanding respect and people going saaar saaar, then ever taking responsibility.

View attachment 19150

You would think India would have the world's biggest navy looking at the number of accidents in this list.

Sometimes they do actually like that chopper shooting ( btw that was during actual war and probably due to equipment limitations and adr rush clouding the judgment of the operator). But the navy is in different league altogether. They are sinking billion dollar subs in docs, their surface ships are getting toppled and sunk while in repair shops and these ships are very costly and too few to begin with

 

[Corvus Splendens]

You would think India would have the world's biggest navy looking at the number of accidents in this list.

The AK-630 is gas operated, not an electrical drive. So as long as it has an ammo feed, gun is always live. Combine with hazardous work ethics and this happened. But to be fair, no similar incidents with the AK630 since, to Navy's credit.