Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[NerVik]

Not really; there are definitely things that could have been improved like maybe tried a catamaran hull for faster speed or add 8 BrahMos instead of 4...but inclined launcher has nothing to do with being futuristic or obsolete.

Also one has to look that from where exactly someone is arriving at an exact design. See the boats that are supposed to be replaced by MGMV and you'd see why they would have such inclination for inclined launcher (pun intended).

Yup, most probably.
Also an inclined launching variant of BrahMos should be bit cheaper than VLS launching variant (my theory, I could be totally wrong) as you don't need those extra bits to do "" and instead it's just a simple "" launch.

Naval equivalent of what we call Combat Air Patrol during peace time; it's easier to do so with smaller vessels - crews.

In times of war these would be used either as "raiders" (like Trident or Python) or to overwhelm an attacking flotilla.

Yup, not very far away...Indian Navy.
All the Veers and Khukris and Koras are pretty much this only. Except for obviously stuff like radar and electronic, the armament gets kind of equivalent...they have 16 short ranged subsonic missile, these will have 4 long ranged supersonic ones.

Ummmmnnnn...it's better not to

Again, inclined launchers are in no way inherently bad. The gold standard of fast attack missile boats is the Norwegian Skjold Class and they have have inclined launchers
View attachment 18839
Though the reasoning is different; they went for it to reduce the radar cross section as much as possible and also they didn't have the sufficient draft to place them upright. For us it's cost cutting and keeping things simple.

But was it theoretical possible to use a VLS by say integrating it with the superstructure. Absolutely, see this new Chinese optionally manned vessel for example
View attachment 18840
But then someone might come up with the argument that it's always better to not merge your boom-boom stuff with soft-squishy stuff, there should be some degree of stand-off in case of a catastrophic failure. Like this Type 055
View attachment 18841
So as with every weapons designing, everything is a compromise between two parameters.

As for what could have been improved in this design, here's my opinion worth 4 aana
• The first and foremost and as I already mentioned, 8 instead of 4 BrahMos.
• Extendable inclined launchers on the sides would have greatly reduced RCS. For a basic idea
View attachment 18843
• Or how long are we going to continue with this DoorDarshan antenna set-up. Atleast in smaller ships where you don't need all those systems like multiple radars, multiple ECM/ECCMs, INT set-ups...you could have easily gone for a cleaner, RCS reduced mast-superstructure.

You won't believe Ezsasa how much I wish to engage in a constructive discussion with you but at the last moment I shy away fearing you might come up with some neighbour uncle like tough questions
So what do you do? How much is your in-hand kid? Don't talk to me unless you're currently working in WITCH.
Sad

Anyways, gonna take the risk...the problem with most of the Indian ships, especially those designed in India is that it's pretty hard to find a contemporary to compare as most are under armed in respect to their tonnage. So if you look for similar weighing ships, most of time they'd be over armed. And if you look for similarly armed ships, they'd be lighter.

Like all current cruisers and heavy destroyers are pretty much similar.
Ticonderoga - 10kT - 122 cells
055 - 12kT - 112 cells
Maya - 10kT - 96 cells
Sejong - 10kt - 100 cells
Pretty much in the range of 1 missile per 100 ton of ship. For us this number would be far more because of constrained budget. Even the upcoming P-18 might lack in this.

Baaki bhul chuk maaf Ezsasa Bhaiya

Why are our ships so under armed? It's really very curious to see. I can assume we have fewer AShM is because most of our ships are now moving to brahmos and maybe we can do same level of damage with fewer brahmos. But why is the SAM capacity so low? The most i have seen on our ships is 32 barak 1, that doesn't even give us proper SAM coverage let alone ABM capacity. What is the navy rationale for this design/policy?

 

[Ayan Barat]

Why are our ships so under armed? It's really very curious to see. I can assume we have fewer AShM is because most of our ships are now moving to brahmos and maybe we can do same level of damage with fewer brahmos. But why is the SAM capacity so low? The most i have seen on our ships is 32 barak 1, that doesn't even give us proper SAM coverage let alone ABM capacity. What is the navy rationale for this design/policy?

Go through the posts on this page

our pockets aren't deep enough

money is issue even our current VLSs remain empty

 

[Blademaster]

And you please don't go back to your "how can you be so derisive to quote a song lyrics" arc, we've already gone through that once. It ruins my mood when out of nowhere someone "behaves" like a boomer and lectures me for unnecessary stuff.

• There's nothing offensive or slang in my post.
• There enough informative stuff to focus on.

Learn to take a hint, boy.

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

View: https://x.com/indiannavy/status/1867174602151170250
L&T will make two of the five FSS

So first underbid and then dump the extra orders which they can't deliver on time to Private Shipyards to prevent penalties. How much more longer does this chutyapa goes? Why is L&T so miserly? Do they think they are some Parama Pativrata? Even LM, NG and BAE everyone bribes and secures contracts. No bribes policy doesn't take them anywhere and settle for crumbs eternally.

 

[Nutcracker]

So first underbid and then dump the extra orders which they can't deliver on time to Private Shipyards to prevent penalties. How much more longer does this chutyapa goes? Why is L&T so miserly? Do they think they are some Parama Pativrata? Even LM, NG and BAE everyone bribes and secures contracts. No bribes policy doesn't take them anywhere and settle for crumbs eternally.

Was there even a bidding ? iirc L&T didn't have designing capability, so HSL got the contract of all 5. Now HSL will share the design with L&T for the building of 2 FSS.

 

[Fatalis]

So first underbid and then dump the extra orders which they can't deliver on time to Private Shipyards to prevent penalties. How much more longer does this chutyapa goes? Why is L&T so miserly? Do they think they are some Parama Pativrata? Even LM, NG and BAE everyone bribes and secures contracts. No bribes policy doesn't take them anywhere and settle for crumbs eternally.

HSL was nominated to build the FSS by the MoD and the government. They are sharing their work with L&T for faster delivery.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Yup, most probably.
Also an inclined launching variant of BrahMos should be bit cheaper than VLS launching variant (my theory, I could be totally wrong) as you don't need those extra bits to do "" and instead it's just a simple "" launch.

It's more likely that the Indian Navy initially planned to use 8 x BrahMos NG and since it wasn't ready on time, Plan B was to use a 2 x twin BrahMos ER setup compared to the older render where the launchers were midship.

My only doubt with this design is the missiles in the middle of the deck don't seem to be . Won't they be too big to place in middle? Either it is NASM-MR or GlideFire but even if it comes out to then also no issue.

However using Occam's razor, the Indian Navy starts with 16 x BrahMos and divides by 2 as you go down each class.

Kolkata, Vishakapatnam Class DDG - 16 x BrahMos
Shivalik, Talwar, Nilgiri, P 17B(?) FFG - 8 x BrahMos
NGMV DEG - 4 x BrahMos

I managed to enhance the image of the banner from the event and there is a possibility of 16 x VL-SRSAM since the X-Band MFR radar is similar to the one in INS Rana.

We can see some kind of VLS peeking out behind the naval officer's ear in the photo.

 

[Ayan Barat]

It's more likely that the Indian Navy initially planned to use 8 x BrahMos NG and since it wasn't ready on time, Plan B was to use a 2 x twin BrahMos ER setup per the ol

You can be absolutely correct, but I don't think navy has at any point shown such profound interest for BrahMos-NG. They usually go for what's cent percent tangible.

In fact BrahMos-NG in itself is an utterly baffling topic for me.
Take the example of Astra, it was fired for the first time in 2014. [Remove an year or two because a party generally avoids defence spending after immediately coming into power or near an election, focusing more on welfare schemes. One two years more because of Chinese BatMan] 2021, DRDO was launching Astra as VL-SRSAM. By 2022, DRDO was already on Astra Mk-II. By 2025, we can expect an Astra Mk-III. Even without the leeway of 3-4 years, DRDO managed to churn out a new variant every 2-3 years.

BrahMos is not sarkaari, there's no babudom, no tight budget...still the only feat they've managed to pull till date is indigenized bits and pieces, "increase" the range to 850km (increase in quotation, because they didn't increase it, they simply unlocked the "actual Russian range" decreased due to MTCR), literally dropped one from Su-30 instead of ground launching...this much in two and a half decades since first firing. And none of these are as significant as DRDO stuffing a dual pulse motor or ground launching one. What happened to BrahMos-NG? What happened to the much touted AWACS killer air-to-air missile? And BrahMos-2?

And I'm completely ignoring the fact that most of these indigenization has been done by the likes of less appreciated firms like Astra Microwave, Alpha Defence Technologies, DRDO, Data Patterns and who not.

You'd see how BrahMos-NG is slowly getting replaced at all other non-BrahMos Aerospace booths like IAF/Navy/HAL by other systems like Rudram and CATS in all the exhibitions. Moreover, if I'm not wrong then the initial mock-ups of this NGMV has 4x regular BrahMos on each side of the superstructure.

So extremely sorry for long rant and TL;DR, my theory's those are just some random missile tubes like Harpoon that someone added to show tentative 8x AShM. Just like how the much circulated leaked image of P-18 is actually Italian DDX.

I managed to enhance the image of the banner from the event and there is a possibility of 16 x VL-SRSAM since the X-Band MFR radar is similar to the one in INS Rana.

We can see some kind of VLS peeking out behind the Naval officer's ear in the photo.

Those can very well be 8x VL-SRSAM VLS on each side.

But what are the chances of them being the dome of AK-630?

 

[vampyrbladez]

Those can very well be 8x VL-SRSAM VLS on each side.

But what are the chances of them being the dome of AK-630?

The VL-SRSAM can be put under the FFBNW (Fitted For But Not With) category until we see the launch of the actual ship.

This the render of the Kamorta Class and the final configuration for configuration.

However, without VL-SRSAM these vessels will be absolutely toothless to protect an ASW squadron (1 x Kamorta Class, 4 x ASW-SWC).

 

[ezsasa]

A Passenger boat en route to #Elephantacaves from #Gateway of India In #Mumbai capsized after Indian Navy's speed boat hit it. The owner of the capsized boat, Rajendra Padate alleged that a speed boat which was circling nearby came & dashed into the boat.


View: https://x.com/OzarkarVallabh/status/1869365395553243366

Mumbai Boat Accident | Maharashtra CM Devendra Fadnavis says, "Near Mumbai, at the Butcher Island, a Navy boat collided with 'Neelkamal' passenger vessel at around 3.55 pm. As per the information till 7.30 pm, 101 have been rescued safely and 13 people have died. Among the 13 deceased, 10 are civilians and 3 are Navy personnel. Two people who are critically injured are admitted to the Navy hospital. Using 11 craft and 4 helicopters, the Navy, Coast Guard and police have carried out the rescue operations. The final information regarding any more missing people will be available tomorrow morning. The bereaved families will be given Rs. 5 lakhs ex gratia from the CM relief fund. The whole incident would be investigated by the police and the Navy..."


View: https://x.com/ANI/status/1869396176019272075

 

[Ayan Barat]

The VL-SRSAM can be put under the FFBNW (Fitted For But Not With) category until we see the launch of the actual ship.

This the render of the Kamorta Class and the final configuration for configuration.

However, without VL-SRSAM these vessels will be absolutely toothless to protect an ASW squadron (1 x Kamorta Class, 4 x ASW-SWC).

Imagine if during actual launch it turns out that the only air-defence other than two AK-630s are 2-4 Twin VSHORAD launchers...keeping with the IN's legacy of using Strelas on Veer/Khukri/Kora

 

[Yuyutsu]

MARCOS were onboard?? apparently 3 navy guys died

A Passenger boat en route to #Elephantacaves from #Gateway of India In #Mumbai capsized after Indian Navy's speed boat hit it. The owner of the capsized boat, Rajendra Padate alleged that a speed boat which was circling nearby came & dashed into the boat.


View: https://x.com/OzarkarVallabh/status/1869365395553243366

Mumbai Boat Accident | Maharashtra CM Devendra Fadnavis says, "Near Mumbai, at the Butcher Island, a Navy boat collided with 'Neelkamal' passenger vessel at around 3.55 pm. As per the information till 7.30 pm, 101 have been rescued safely and 13 people have died. Among the 13 deceased, 10 are civilians and 3 are Navy personnel. Two people who are critically injured are admitted to the Navy hospital. Using 11 craft and 4 helicopters, the Navy, Coast Guard and police have carried out the rescue operations. The final information regarding any more missing people will be available tomorrow morning. The bereaved families will be given Rs. 5 lakhs ex gratia from the CM relief fund. The whole incident would be investigated by the police and the Navy..."


View: https://x.com/ANI/status/1869396176019272075

 

[vampyrbladez]

Imagine if during actual launch it turns out that the only air-defence other than two AK-630s are 2-4 Twin VSHORAD launchers...keeping with the IN's legacy of using Strelas on Veer/Khukri/Kora

The VL-SRSAM can be put under the FFBNW (Fitted For But Not With) category until we see the launch of the actual ship.

This the render of the Kamorta Class and the final configuration post commissioning.

However, without VL-SRSAM these vessels will be absolutely toothless to protect an ASW squadron (1 x Kamorta Class, 4 x ASW-SWC).

The NGMV is thus analogous to the Buyan Class.

Since there is no helipad on the ship, we cannot even deploy a modular Tor like missile system onto it as an interim measure like the Russians.

 

[ezsasa]

MARCOS were onboard?? apparently 3 navy guys died

looks like it. freeze the frame just before impact, there's a guy in camo.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

View: https://x.com/ZaidiWaseem7/status/1869432274523173312

Navy says technical difficulties

 

[NerVik]

View: https://x.com/ZaidiWaseem7/status/1869432274523173312

Navy says technical difficulties
View attachment 18881

Why was it undergoing engine trials this close to harbor waters with such heavy civilian traffic? Is this normal practice? And how many incidents will navy go through before over hauling their operations hand book? Every day it seems there is a new incident with navy. I am beggining to get fed up with these incidents that seem more about our pathetic chalta attitude than anything else.

 

[Vishnugupt]

The absolute Level of professionalism. This attitude is very prevent in Armed forces.

It's was not any problem with engine or boat. It was driver who might be driving it first time.


View: https://twitter.com/thedefencewatch/status/1869544840096321866?t=_sWZGRsDMQQc3BHLsqfHTQ&s=19

 

[RocketMan]

The absolute Level of professionalism. This attitude is very prevent in Armed forces.

It's was not any problem with engine or boat. It was driver who might be driving it first time.


View: https://twitter.com/thedefencewatch/status/1869544840096321866?t=_sWZGRsDMQQc3BHLsqfHTQ&s=19

Unfortunate incident. RIP ! Hope that our Navy reviews some SOPs . I think our rapid fleet expansion & introduction of new tech will take some time to adapt & train new sailors regarding the same.

 

[Migflug]

There are too many accidents in the Navy!!

 

[AbRaj]

Mumbai Boat Accident LIVE Updates: Survivor Files FIR Against Navy Speedboat Driver & Others​

Mumbai Boat Accident LIVE Updates: Survivor Files FIR Against Navy Speedboat Driver & Others - News18

Mumbai Boat Accident LIVE Updates: 13 Killed, 101 Rescued After Navy Speedboat Rams Ferry

www.news18.com

Ferry disaster passenger accuses Indian navy vessel of ‘showing off’ before crash

Ten civilians and 3 navy personnel killed

www.independent.co.uk

AFP News

doc.afp.com