Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Ayan Barat]

My whole argument was based around the assumption that you were talking about HHQ-9s.

And my argument is based on three successive statements
• Tor is an extremely maneuverable missile, with max speed of around Mach 3 and max acceleration of 30g
• FM-3000N is a Chinese copy of Tor
• Type-055 can quad pack FM-3000N

But the problem is that only statement one is definitely true. For other two statements we still don't have much concrete evidence to draw any conclusions.

By the way, you can use ANSYS??!! You a mech engineer or something??

I just tend to know a thing or two about all these stuffs. As for ANSYS, I can hardly do rudimentary projectile type simulations. Ask me to do some fluid flow thing and you'd find me playing Spider Solitaire.

But for anyone into things like CAD or FEA, it's not that tough to learn once you cultivate a curiosity for things. I'd say the biggest challenge is the fact that any good system's going to be insanely expensive, especially for hobbyist like us.

 

[shade2]

View attachment 20976

So much Empty Space in the area just before the helipad.
Surely they could squeeze a few VLSes in there for P-15B and two more AK-630s in P-17A.

Budgets..

 

[shade2]

View: https://x.com/Adm_Kenobi/status/1811384184382038030

What are y'all nibbiars opinions on this?
How do both the Adm Kenobi accounts know about this VLU redesign? Can't find info on the VLU anywhere else.

 

[Ayan Barat]

What are y'all nibbiars opinions on this?

First one is suboptimal (the space could have been better utilised) and second one is comical (you always try your best to never extend beyond the footprint of your system). Don't ask me what according to me should be the best design, not gonna tell unless you sign a NDA/NCC.

 

[Blood+]

View: https://x.com/Adm_Kenobi/status/1811384184382038030

What are y'all nibbiars opinions on this?
How do both the Adm Kenobi accounts know about this VLU redesign? Can't find info on the VLU anywhere else.

Total waste of a ship's real estate is what I think it is. Sale aur kuch nehi toh ekbar google pe hi kuch VLS designs search kar lete before creating this monstrosity.

 

[shade2]

First one is suboptimal (the space could have been better utilised) and second one is comical (you always try your best to never extend beyond the footprint of your system). Don't ask me what according to me should be the best design, not gonna tell unless you sign a NDA/NCC.

Total waste of a ship's real estate is what I think it is. Sale aur kuch nehi toh ekbar google pe hi kuch VLS designs search kar lete before creating this monstrosity.

Nah i was just wondering whether the VLU redesign news is true, very little i can find about the VLU as compared to the missile itself from other sources.

Also why are they building a standalone VLS for VL-SRSAM? Is it not possible to mod the ULVM from Aerospace to launch these missiles? they can also be quadpacked this way i guess

 

[Fatalis]

Nah i was just wondering whether the VLU redesign news is true, very little i can find about the VLU as compared to the missile itself from other sources.

Also why are they building a standalone VLS for VL-SRSAM? Is it not possible to mod the ULVM from Aerospace to launch these missiles? they can also be quadpacked this way i guess

The image of the updated VLU was leaked long back.

The VLU is dedicated for the VL-SRSAM so that it can be put on small surface combatant and auxiliary vessels.

For quadpacking it in UVLM we can send our suggestions to MoD but until then it is what it is.

 

[Fatalis]

Total waste of a ship's real estate is what I think it is. Sale aur kuch nehi toh ekbar google pe hi kuch VLS designs search kar lete before creating this monstrosity.

The old VLU was causing issue with plumes and the weight was not according to the naval requirement. The old design was very similar in looks to the Mk-41 so I think they had done their google search for the design way back but it didn't meet the criteria.

 

[Blood+]

Also why are they building a standalone VLS for VL-SRSAM?

Lack of an UVLS.

Is it not possible to mod the ULVM from Aerospace to launch these missiles? they can also be quadpacked this way i guess

BrahMos VLS are exclusively cold launch where as the VL-SRSAM is a hot launch missile, so you'll have your works cut out for you but it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Now, coming to quad packing, I'm not very certain about quad packing, as the cross section of BrahMos VLS is round rather than square. But you can definitely triple pack with adapters; something similar to what they did with K-15 missiles in the Arihant SSBN. Like this -

 

[Blood+]

The old VLU was causing issue with plumes and the weight was not according to the naval requirement. The old design was very similar in looks to the Mk-41 so I think they had done their google search for the design way back but it didn't meet the criteria.

Nah, just look at the abysmal packing density or the size of that whole god damned thing!! Forget about Mk-41, here's a side by side comparison with the Shtil VLS -

(Sorry @Ayan Barat bhai, appka kaam chura raha hun).
The Shtil weighs over 3 times as much as a VL-SRSAM by the way.

Further edit - and here's Mk-41:

And here is Sylver:

 

[shade2]

Nah, just look at the abysmal packing density or the size of that whole god damned thing!! Forget about Mk-41, here's a side by side comparison with the Shtil VLS -

(Sorry @Ayan Barat bhai, appka kaam chura raha hun).
The Shtil weighs over 3 times as much as a VL-SRSAM by the way.

Packing density meaning the cells per module( 8x here vs 12x of shtil ) or that the VL-SRSAM VLU has a lot of extra space all around it so putting these side by side will take up even more space?

 

[Blood+]

Packing density meaning the cells per module( 8x here vs 12x of shtil ) or that the VL-SRSAM VLU has a lot of extra space all around it so putting these side by side will take up even more space?

Second one.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Here's a fun idea, TEDBF's front fuselage, canards and nose, chop em off and stick a Su-57's rear fuselage + engine arrangement plus wings.


Refine tis Frankenstein's design with geometric stealth shaping, add a long bay and now it carries a internally.

 

[vampyrbladez]

A maneuver including both elevation and azimuth is very much possible and might be what a BrahMos actually does. But the reason I didn't consider that was because it would've been more favourable for the interceptor than the BrahMos itself; because as long as all its moves are going on in the azimuth (probably the xy plane in your model) it's in sea skimming mode, hidden within the clutters. As you start moving too much in the elevation (the yx plane) it becomes easier to see you on the radar.

BrahMos uses top attack during terminal phase like a Javelin ATGM IIRC.

The missile fired in top-attack mode hit the designated target, meeting all mission parameters.

“The BrahMos trial was a highly complex mission as it had three waypoints unlike one in earlier tests. The missile hit the target after making three curves (in a bid to avoid obstacles mid way) at a speed of one km per second. The missile proved its capability of escaping advanced air defence interception,” a defence official told TNIE

https://www.newindianexpress.com/na...t-on-andaman-and-nicobar-islands-2227409.html

 

[Blood+]

BrahMos uses top attack during terminal phase like a Javelin ATGM IIRC.

I think that was one of the land-attack variants but even still, such maneuvers can still be used against ships as well.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Nah, just look at the abysmal packing density or the size of that whole god damned thing!! Forget about Mk-41, here's a side by side comparison with the Shtil VLS -

(Sorry @Ayan Barat bhai, appka kaam chura raha hun).
The Shtil weighs over 3 times as much as a VL-SRSAM by the way.

Further edit - and here's Mk-41:

And here is Sylver:

If that means NMGV, NGC and Kamorta are getting 16-32 VL-SRSAM then it's fine.

 

[Blood+]

If that means NMGV, NGC and Kamorta are getting 16-32 VL-SRSAM then it's fine.

But it could have been so much better is what we are saying.

 

[shade2]

Lack of an UVLS.

They should get working on this
We have the following in development or in service domestic and imported SAMs

1. Barak-8 LRSAM
2. VL-SRSAM( should be quad-packed like ESSM/CAMM and all )
3. Shtil-1
4. Project Kusha all 3 missiles

Coverage for all ranges, better they make a UVLS also atleast for these or make some mod out of UVLM from Aerospace.

For land based atleast they say UVLM can carry Nirbhay missile also but on the SAM end there is lot of work to be done

 

[vampyrbladez]

Has India ever considered getting the Club-N or Club-S missile given that the UVLM for BrahMos was originally based on the USKS VLS for the Kalibr (Klub) missile. This will give us an ASROC capability of sorts.

Note : 91RTE2 anti-submarine ballistic missile (Club-N) differs from 91RE1 missile in size and booster design

Main characteristics:

Length, m:

• 91RЕ1: 7,65
• 91RТЕ2: 8,916

Diameter, m:

• 91RЕ1: 0,534
• 91RТЕ2: 0,645

Weight, kg:

• 91RЕ1: 2100
• 91RТЕ2: 3105

Operational range, km:

• 91RЕ1: 5…50
• 91RТЕ2: up to 40

Sustainer portion flight speed, m/s:

• 91RЕ1, 91RТЕ2: up to 830

Warhead weight, kg:

• 91RЕ1, 91RТЕ2: 500 (length 3.2, caliber 0.35)

Guidance system type:

• 91RЕ1, 91RТЕ2: united inertial+ acoustic target seeker

 

[GodEmperorDoom]

Not all ships need larger diameter missiles, the Chinese did UVLS but they still need two different kind of systems, one for Destroyers and another for Frigates.

They should go for a 24-Inch Cell size similar to Mark-41 for
1. Quad Packed Short Range SAM
2. Medium Range SAM
3. ASROC Short Range like 20-30km that drops Light Weight Torpedo
4. Stealth Subsonic Cruise Missile
5. Stealth Land Attack Cruise Missile... Nirbhay would fit in this I think.

For a 36-Inch cell,
1. Long Range SAM that is akin to beefed up SM-6. One in All for Anti-Air Long Range, Anti-Hypersonic, Low Endo Atmospheric Anti-Ballistic.
2. Exo Atmospheric akin to SM-3
3. Supersonic Cruise Missile like
4. Anti-Ship MARV
5. Anti-Ship Hypersonic Glide Vehicle
6. Mythical Hypersonic Cruise Missile.