Indian Navy Developments & Discussions

[Azaad]

Thanks to TKMS there are 2 new sub builders in the world : South Korea and Turkey.
Indeed, very good job.

I would say it's still better than le Francais selling the Exocet to Argentina then passing on its secrets to Little Britain during the Falklands war.

It's called keeping one's part of the bargain , living up to one's word. Are these concepts alien to le Francais ?

 

[Rai89]

Tamal, India’s last imported warship, likely to be commissioned in June

View attachment 26223





https://www.thehindu.com/news/natio...o-be-commissioned-in-june/article69262725.ece

How do the upgraded Talwar Class ships compare to the Next Generation Corvette in cost and capability?

If we are getting the NGC for 500 million USD each then they seem a much better value than the Talwar class which will need to be upgraded with a modern VLS SAM and radar.

 

[haldilal]

US' MQ-9B Drones Better For Navy Than Indigenous TAPAS, Says Vice Chief

Indian Navy Vice Chief, Vice Admiral Krishna Swaminathan Tuesday said any kind of settlement with China resolving the ongoing border standoff at the Line of Actual Control (LAC) 'makes us happy'

news.abplive.com

 

[shade2]

US' MQ-9B Drones Better For Navy Than Indigenous TAPAS, Says Vice Chief

Indian Navy Vice Chief, Vice Admiral Krishna Swaminathan Tuesday said any kind of settlement with China resolving the ongoing border standoff at the Line of Actual Control (LAC) 'makes us happy'

news.abplive.com

will “fulfil” the need for surveillance of wide oceanic space and other requirements of the Navy in the maritime domain

The SeaGuardian drone is basically a sasta P8I as @mist_consecutive as explained in the past.
It also has sonobouy dispensers, adding even more to the sasta P8I moniker.

Tapas is a generic HALE drone by comparison

IN seems to be very dedicated on keeping an eye for those Chinku submarines.

 

[Binayak95]

The SeaGuardian drone is basically a sasta P8I as @mist_consecutive as explained in the past.
It also has sonobouy dispensers, adding even more to the sasta P8I moniker.

Tapas is a generic HALE drone by comparison

IN seems to be very dedicated on keeping an eye for those Chinku submarines.

What shit. P8I carries Harpoons, several Mk 46 torpedoes, has a significant SIGINT and ELINT suite.

the SeaGuardian brings ceaseless tireless vigil to the equation at less than a fourth the price of the P8I's operation.

The beauty is in getting kill tracks from a SeaGuardian and a SMART launched from mainland India.

 

[shade2]

What shit. P8I carries Harpoons, several Mk 46 torpedoes, has a significant SIGINT and ELINT suite.

the SeaGuardian brings ceaseless tireless vigil to the equation at less than a fourth the price of the P8I's operation.

The beauty is in getting kill tracks from a SeaGuardian and a SMART launched from mainland India.

I said sasta P8I didn't I?
ofc it can't carry torpedo and harpoon along with sonobouy dispensers

 

[Nutcracker]

I said sasta P8I didn't I?
ofc it can't carry torpedo and harpoon along with sonobouy dispensers

And since we've started making those sonobuoys, it might've become much cheaper to operate.
I've always maintained the position that Tapas should be shoved down to Army not Navy, Navy has to take return trip into the account, but Army can land it afar pre-decided airbase/port, get mini checkup, refuel and get back into the air.

 

[shade2]

And since we've started making those sonobuoys, it might've become much cheaper to operate.
I've always maintained the position that Tapas should be shoved down to Army not Navy, Navy has to take return trip into the account, but Army can land it afar pre-decided airbase/port, get mini checkup, refuel and get back into the air.

Yea, Navy has additional requirements for most of their platforms, lots of customization has to be done, for e.g Dhruv naval version and IMRH will need to have foldable rotor blades and foldable tail boom, plus whatever electronics are needed for ASW.

Current Tapas is generic, it's well suited for ground based roles but additional customization will have to be done for navy usage, which will take time, which will have to be tested, which also will take time, for what is a very small order.

 

[Azaad]

And since we've started making those sonobuoys, it might've become much cheaper to operate.
I've always maintained the position that Tapas should be shoved down to Army not Navy, Navy has to take return trip into the account, but Army can land it afar pre-decided airbase/port, get mini checkup, refuel and get back into the air.

The IN requires MALE drones to patrol the near seas. HALE drones like Sea Guardian will be used to patrol the far seas. In fact there's a good case to be made for Tapas induction by both the ICG & BSF.

 

[vampyrbladez]

How do the upgraded Talwar Class ships compare to the Next Generation Corvette in cost and capability?

If we are getting the NGC for 500 million USD each then they seem a much better value than the Talwar class which will need to be upgraded with a modern VLS SAM and radar.

Sensor/Frigate or Corvette Class	Type 054A	Type 056	Talwar (Batch III)	NGC	Advantage
Primary Radar	Type 382 radar	Type 360 Radar	Fregat M2EM	MF-STAR AESA (Corvette)	NGC
Range	250 KM	250 KM	300 Km	250 KM+	NGC
Secondary Radar	Type 344	NIL	Scanter 6002	3Ts-25E Garpun-B	Type 054A
Range	250km	NIL	177 Km	141 Km	Type 054A
Hull Mounted Sonar	MGK-335	MGK-335 (?)	HUMSA-NG (MK 2)	HUMSA-NG (MK 2)	NGC/Talwar
Range	27.8 km	27.8 km	40 km	40 km	NGC/Talwar
Towed Sonar	H/SJG-206	H/SJG-206 (?)	ACTAS	ACTAS	NGC/Talwar
Range	129.6 km	129.6 km	60 Km	60 Km	Type 054A/ Type 056

Weapon/Frigate or Corvette Class	Type 054A	Type 056	Talwar (Batch III)	NGC	Advantage
Surface to Air Missile (VLS)	32-cell VLS for HQ-16 SAM	1 x 8 HHQ-10 SAM (Box Launcher)	24-cell VLS for Shtil-1 SAM	16-cell VLS for Barak 8 SAM	NGC
Range	70 Km	9 Km	50 Km	90-100 Km	NGC
Anti Ship Missile (VLS/Launcher)	2 x 4 YJ 83 (Box Launcher)	2 x 2 YJ 83 (Box Launcher)	8 x BrahMos (VLS)	8 x BrahMos (VLS)	NGC/Talwar
Range	180 - 230 Km	180 - 230 Km	450-900 Km	450-900 Km	NGC/Talwar
Anti Submarine Rocket	32-cell VLS for Yu-8	NIL	1 x RBU 6000 for RGB-60	NIL	Type 054A
Range	20 km	NIL	8.5 Km	8.5 Km	Type 054A
Torpedo	2 × 3 324mm Yu-7	2 × 3 324mm Yu-7	2 × twin 533mm Varunastra	2 × triple 324mm Shyena	Talwar
Range	14.1 km	14.1 km	50 km	50 km	Talwar
CIWS	2 × Type 730/1130	1 × Type 730/1130	2 x AK 630	2 x AK 630	Type 054A
Range	5 km	5 km	5 km	5 km	Type 054A

Conclusion : Type 054A FFG >= Talwar Class =< Next Generation Corvette >> Type 056 Corvette

 

[shade2]

Sensor/Frigate or Corvette Class	Type 054A	Type 056	Talwar (Batch III)	NGC	Advantage
Primary Radar	Type 382 radar	Type 360 Radar	Fregat M2EM	MF-STAR AESA (Corvette)	NGC
Range	250 KM	250 KM	300 Km	250 KM+	NGC
Secondary Radar	Type 344	NIL	Scanter 6002	3Ts-25E Garpun-B	NGC
Range	250km	NIL	177 Km	141 Km	Type 054A
Hull Mounted Sonar	MGK-335	MGK-335 (?)	HUMSA-NG (MK 2)	HUMSA-NG (MK 2)	NGC/Talwar
Range	27.8 km	27.8 km	40 km	40 km	NGC/Talwar
Towed Sonar	H/SJG-206	H/SJG-206 (?)	ACTAS	ACTAS	NGC/Talwar
Range	129.6 km	129.6 km	60 Km	60 Km	Type 054A/ Type 056

Weapon/Frigate or Corvette Class	Type 054A	Type 056	Talwar (Batch III)	NGC	Advantage
Surface to Air Missile (VLS)	32-cell VLS for HQ-16 SAM	1 x 8 HHQ-10 SAM (Box Launcher)	24-cell VLS for Shtil-1 SAM	16-cell VLS for Barak 8 SAM	NGC
Range	70 Km	9 Km	50 Km	90-100 Km	NGC
Anti Ship Missile (VLS/Launcher)	2 x 4 YJ 83 (Box Launcher)	2 x 2 YJ 83 (Box Launcher)	8 x BrahMos (VLS)	8 x BrahMos (VLS)	NGC/Talwar
Range	180 - 230 Km	180 - 230 Km	450-900 Km	450-900 Km	NGC/Talwar
Anti Submarine Rocket	32-cell VLS for Yu-8	NIL	1 x RBU 6000 for RGB-60	NIL	Type 054A
Range	20 km	NIL	8.5 Km	8.5 Km	Type 054A
Torpedo	2 × 3 324mm Yu-7	2 × 3 324mm Yu-7	2 × twin 533mm Varunastra	2 × triple 324mm Shyena	Talwar
Range	14.1 km	14.1 km	50 km	50 km	Talwar
CIWS	2 × Type 730/1130	1 × Type 730/1130	2 x AK 630	2 x AK 630	Type 054A
Range	5 km	5 km	5 km	5 km	Type 054A

Conclusion : Type 054A FFG >= Talwar Class =< Next Generation Corvette >> Type 056 Corvette

NGC specs are out?
Last I checked people had eye-balled 16x MRSAM and the smaller MF-STAR radar from the 3d model in the one Navy video.
Rest all details from that one 2-3 second long shot were not clear, i remember one nibbiar here tried to even change the contrast of that picture to find out what other elements are visible

 

[vampyrbladez]

NGC specs are out?
Last I checked people had eye-balled 16x MRSAM and the smaller MF-STAR radar from the 3d model in the one Navy video.
Rest all details from that one 2-3 second long shot were not clear, i remember one nibbiar here tried to even change the contrast of that picture to find out what other elements are visible

 

[shade2]

https://www.aninews.in/news/national/general-news/mdl-building-four-submarines-without-foreign-overseeing-teams-speaks-about-success-of-tech-transfer-french-naval-group20250228204750/

MDL building four submarines without foreign overseeing teams speaks about success of tech transfer: French Naval Group

>French """ToT"""
>Imported French steel
>Imported French electronics
>Imported French engine
>Teach MDL to build hull from imported steel


WOW L'INDIENS, BEHOLD LE TRANSEUR DU TECHNOLOGIE DE FRANCAIS!!!!

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Found an interesting paper on AIP subs, might interest someone.

https://jmstt.ntou.edu.tw/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1152&context=journal

Some interesting snippets


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Im personally also interested in the viability of the older style of AIP, closed-cycle engines, since they could use much cheaper fuels. Although running an engine underwater on ethanol/methanol (more viable than diesel IMO for cleaner burn) would be much noisier than fuel cells, my guess is that it could give higher energy returns.

 

[Blademaster]

Im personally also interested in the viability of the older style of AIP, closed-cycle engines, since they could use much cheaper fuels. Although running an engine underwater on ethanol/methanol (more viable than diesel IMO for cleaner burn) would be much noisier than fuel cells, my guess is that it could give higher energy returns.

Running a noisier engine is a non-starter and ultimately self-defeating. What is the point of going through the whole exercise of trying to get silent runnings when you destroy it by getting more energy that will not save you in combat. In submarine warfare, silence is golden and saves lives while noise kills you.

 

[SwordOfDarkness]

Running a noisier engine is a non-starter and ultimately self-defeating. What is the point of going through the whole exercise of trying to get silent runnings when you destroy it by getting more energy that will not save you in combat. In submarine warfare, silence is golden and saves lives while noise kills you.

I mean, noisier doesnt mean noisy.... I'd like to see if its feasible, thats all.

Steam turbines are noisier too, but nuke subs are quiet enough.

 

[vampyrbladez]

Shivalik Class Frigate



32 x Barak 1 (VLS)

 

[eastern_bhartiya]

NASM-MR should be the missile of choice for corvette and missile vessel type ships , instead of on every ship ever. Our boats need more missiles given even our destroyers only carry 16 brahmos.

 

[BON PLAN]

I would say it's still better than le Francais selling the Exocet to Argentina then passing on its secrets to Little Britain during the Falklands war.

It's called keeping one's part of the bargain , living up to one's word. Are these concepts alien to le Francais ?

GB was, is and will remain a strong ally. We never can't forget that.
Even with some leaks about exocet range GB lost some ships due to exocet.... so Le Francais say you shut up.

And to speak about India, please don't forget Kargil, and the international ban (except France) after nuclear crisis.

 

[ArjunMK1A]

NASM-MR should be the missile of choice for corvette and missile vessel type ships , instead of on every ship ever. Our boats need more missiles given even our destroyers only carry 16 brahmos.

Agreed, we cannot use in NGC, NGMV due to high cost. NASM-MR provide an good alternative. Low cost and easy design. For Frigates and Destroyers hope DRDO perfect the Nirbhay and his sons. Because we are dire need of Tomahawk like missiles to reduce cost.