Indian Small Arms and Weapons

[Mr.Evil]

 

[mcpo117]

View attachment 8160

how come we still be raw dogging that SIG?

 

[IWIarad11]

how come we still be raw dogging that SIG?

Trying out magnifier + holo combo from eotech. And some desi long range sights too. But mostly unitwise purchase/still testing. Even the holo on the ak ain't standard.

So we still running most of 'em nakedxD

 

[mcpo117]

Trying out magnifier + holo combo from eotech. And some desi long range sights too. But mostly unitwise purchase/still testing. Even the holo on the ak ain't standard.

So we still running most of 'em nakedxD

didn't the 716s come with specialized scopes tailored for them?

 

[IWIarad11]

didn't the 716s come with specialized scopes tailored for them?

Nope.

 

[Ayan Barat]

didn't the 716s come with specialized scopes tailored for them?

We got one for about $1,200 while it currently retails for almost $1,500.

Even a "cheaper" 1-6x LPVO would cost you around $350. And a "cheaper" Red Dot + 3x Magnifier would cost you $450.

That's 30-37% cost of the gun itself.

 

[Noob]

didn't the 716s come with specialized scopes tailored for them?

These were offered with all the Gucchi attachments but we said Naa we will save money

 

[me_itsme]

how come we still be raw dogging that SIG?

cause Indian army.

 

[Mr.Evil]

These were offered with all the Gucchi attachments but we said Naa we will save money

Bkl Cheap ass lobbying krrhe ho toh ache se toh krro

 

[username unkown]

These were offered with all the Gucchi attachments but we said Naa we will save money

sig romeo 4xtpro could have been great choice for us on AK 203 its 500 dollars something if we had orderedcit in bulk i think we could have gotten 400to 300 dollars per piece and romeo 4t series is one of the good budget red dot its performance is same as aimpoint t 2 but again sigs magnifier and other majorily optics are not that good exept few
If they wanted to same money sig have few very good budget optics notice only few

 

[Mr.Evil]

Iam very impressed with ASTR ATAL GEN 2 icl it looks very promising

View: https://youtu.be/AJnZi_mg02g?si=Wqmoxt7vGxMgiv5l

 

[spindrift]

Iam very impressed with ASTR ATAL GEN 2 icl it looks very promising

View: https://youtu.be/AJnZi_mg02g?si=Wqmoxt7vGxMgiv5l

They need to get that into 380 ACP or 357 sig

 

[Ayan Barat]

They need to get that into 380 ACP or 357 sig

No one would buy then.
.32 ACP is the only round made by OFB, hence you can get it readily and also kind of cheaply.

.32 ACP, .45 ACP (rare, a small number manages to get past customs) and 7.62x25mm (extremely rare, as the primary source is captured ammo) are the only three pistol calibre you'd find here. Everything else is Gucci

 

[spindrift]

No one would buy then.
.32 ACP is the only round made by OFB, hence you can get it readily and also kind of cheaply.

.32 ACP, .45 ACP (rare, a small number manages to get past customs) and 7.62x25mm (extremely rare, as the primary source is captured ammo) are the only three pistol calibre you'd find here. Everything else is Gucci

They can set up a ammo factory. We need private ammo manufactures and secondly authorized arms dealers can import ammo.

 

[Ayan Barat]

They can set up a ammo factory. We need private ammo manufactures and secondly authorized arms dealers can import ammo.

Ammunition manufacturing is somehow more difficult than firearm manufacturing.

In firearms manufacturing you hardly need any specialized machinery; everything is off-the-shelf. Which means firstly, they would be cheaper and secondly if God forbid your business fails you can use the same CNC meant for making cutting edge rifles to now make let's say keychains. Also there's a scope of innovation in firearms, so if you make something new then people would happily pay the premium, take the example of H&K guns.

But in ammunition manufacturing every single piece of machinery is specialized and niché. This results in millions of dollars worth of upfront fixed cost and also the fact that if somehow everything fails then you're in a deep trouble.
But the biggest problem would be to get ROI. In international market the price of a 9x19mm round is approximately 25 rupees...how are you going to compete against that price when you've to recover so much of fixed cost and there's hardly any scope of innovation?

 

[spindrift]

Ammunition manufacturing is somehow more difficult than firearm manufacturing.

In firearms manufacturing you hardly need any specialized machinery; everything is off-the-shelf. Which means firstly, they would be cheaper and secondly if God forbid your business fails you can use the same CNC meant for making cutting edge rifles to now make let's say keychains. Also there's a scope of innovation in firearms, so if you make something new then people would happily pay the premium, take the example of H&K guns.

But in ammunition manufacturing every single piece of machinery is specialized and niché. This results in millions of dollars worth of upfront fixed cost and also the fact that if somehow everything fails then you're in a deep trouble.
But the biggest problem would be to get ROI. In international market the price of a 9x19mm round is approximately 25 rupees...how are you going to compete against that price when you've to recover so much of fixed cost and there's hardly any scope of innovation?

Firstly, the ammo the IOF makes is crap. Secondly, if they make civilian calibers ammo provided the quality is comparable to imported ammo, they recover their investment in about 3 years time.

These are the prices from 2023 per round:
IOF .32 revolver Rs 80 per cartridge
Imported .32 wadcutter Rs 300-330 (Fiocchi)
.32 caliber hollow point imported Rs 500-550 (Magtech)
.32 Pistol hollow point imported Rs700-750 (Hornady)
.30-06 rifle cartridge imported Rs 350 (Sellier&bellot)

 

[Ayan Barat]

Secondly, if they make civilian calibers ammo provided the quality is comparable to imported ammo, they recover their investment in about 3 years time.

No...Indian market is too small and sensitive to depend on for a significant investment.
What percent of Indian civilian firearm market would be left if I remove .315, 12 gauge, .22 LR and .32 ACP? Also in these four calibre majority of people look only for the cheapest ammunition.

MKU survived because of foreign orders.
Tonbo survived because of foreign...
Bharat Forge survived...
SSS Defence...

 

[spindrift]

No...Indian market is too small and sensitive to depend on for a significant investment.
What percent of Indian civilian firearm market would be left if I remove .315, 12 gauge, .22 LR and .32 ACP? Also in these four calibre majority of people look only for the cheapest ammunition.

MKU survived because of foreign orders.
Tonbo survived because of foreign...
Bharat Forge survived...
SSS Defence...

30 cal tarkov (7.62×25)
.45 ACP
.30-30 WIN
30.06
6.5×55mm swedish
7x57 mauser
375 H&H Magnum

These are the calibers that are readily available.

 

[Ayan Barat]

30 cal tarkov (7.62×25)
.45 ACP
.30-30 WIN
30.06
6.5×55mm swedish
7x57 mauser
375 H&H Magnum

These are the calibers that are readily available.

This was my question

What percent of Indian civilian firearm market would be left if I remove .315, 12 gauge, .22 LR and .32 ACP?

Let me rephrase my question; out of all the guns sold in India each year how many do you think are chambered in the calibres you mentioned (7.62 Tokarev, 6.5mm Swedish...) and how many in the four calibres I mentioned?

 

[Gutenmorgen]

Firstly, the ammo the IOF makes is crap. Secondly, if they make civilian calibers ammo provided the quality is comparable to imported ammo, they recover their investment in about 3 years time.

These are the prices from 2023 per round:
IOF .32 revolver Rs 80 per cartridge
Imported .32 wadcutter Rs 300-330 (Fiocchi)
.32 caliber hollow point imported Rs 500-550 (Magtech)
.32 Pistol hollow point imported Rs700-750 (Hornady)
.30-06 rifle cartridge imported Rs 350 (Sellier&bellot)

Main problem is 200 round per year limit for civilians. That makes importing ammo more feasible. Webley was supposed to start manufacturing .45 rounds but so far nothing has turned up. Lets see what happens with that.

Astra should go for .45. A double stack 45 will get a lot of customers and will probably push Webley and Malhotra to make double stack 1911s.