Indian Special Forces

[Arad Operator]

For army it always should’ve been
Tier 1-SF (name it whatever)
Tier 2- Airborne
And so on.
He explained it pretty good and iam happy people are finally talking about this.

Not even this, Airborne is no SF/SOF, its just a capability anyone can acquire!

Our SF was going to look something like this:-

1. Special Groups for Army HQ related tasks - Tier1
2. Special Forces under the SF Regt. - Tier2
3. PARA SF/Cdo(Airborne) under PARA Regt. - Tier3

But internal politics let us down!

 

[Mr.Evil]

Not even this, Airborne is no SF/SOF, its just a capability anyone can acquire!

Our SF was going to look something like this:-

1. Special Groups for Army HQ related tasks - Tier1
2. Special Forces under the SF Regt. - Tier2
3. PARA SF/Cdo(Airborne) under PARA Regt. - Tier3

But internal politics let us down!

And now we will not get this for upto a decade for fuck sake

 

[IWIarad11]

Is the Tavor a

Not even this, Airborne is no SF/SOF, its just a capability anyone can acquire!

Our SF was going to look something like this:-

1. Special Groups for Army HQ related tasks - Tier1
2. Special Forces under the SF Regt. - Tier2
3. PARA SF/Cdo(Airborne) under PARA Regt. - Tier3

But internal politics let us down!

Hope we get no. 1 after theaterization and another fight with airborne lobby. Bsdwale reel banayenge baithke, par balidaan badge pehenna hai. Hadd kardi, bechna hi chalu kardo chandni chowk pe ab.

 

[Arad Operator]

And now we will not get this for upto a decade for fuck sake

Atleast we got TRSOD, Theatre ke baad SF groups like SFGs bn jayenge most likely!

 

[Mr.Evil]

Atleast we got TRSOD, Theatre ke baad SF groups like SFGs bn jayenge most likely!

TRSOD bc ghanta kuch krrhi hai sath mai exercise krte rehte hai the level of equipment and training is still the same.
It will only work perfectly when theatrisation starts its operations

 

[Jedi Operator]

Lt Gen PC Katoch had this in mind

Two Tier 1 organizations

Tier 1 is Indian Special Forces Command (ISFC) which is Tri-Services with a Tri Services SFTS


The organisation of ISFC to start with should be about two battalion worth that can be expanded upon subsequently. The initial groupings of Special Forces Teams (SFTs) may individually comprise of anything from 25 to 50 per country or region specific operatives, duly prioritized. The size of the individual SFT will depend upon the country / region and its relative importance in terms of national security objectives. They should have institutionalised access to integrated intelligence, varied insertion and extraction capability and adequate support elements. The Insertion-Extraction Group should have the means to deliver and extract the SFTs through air, surface and underwater. It would be prudent to commence specialised training and preparation with some 300-350 operatives only.
I dont know why but AFSOD may have gained it's inspiration from here, and if so, then it is badly badly executed as of now

Tier 2 is ICC (Integrated Commando Command)


The balance of what really are Commando Forces should bereorganised into an Integrated Commando Command (ICC) directly under the CDS / Permanent Chairman COSC - in line with what the Naresh Chandra Committee has recommended. The ICC should integrate the Army Special Forces, MARCOS, Garuds, NSG and SFF. The Commander of ICC must be from Special Forces. The media has been talking of the Services raising three new Commands viz Cyber,Aerospace and Special Forces. There is a mention that the officer heading the Special Forces Command will be a three star rank officer. This will be problematic as a three star rank officer from Special Forces is a rare commodity in India though there have been exceptions where up to three Special Forces officers wore this rank at the same time. If this stipulation is followed rigidly, then the situation will be back to square one, as in the case of ADGMO (SF) in Military Operations Directorate – a non-SpecialForces officer heading the ICC.The ICC will axiomatically meet individual service requirements of the three services as well. Raising of a Marine Corps as part of the ICC and locating it in the Andaman & Nicobar Command (ANC) too needs to be given due consideration

 

[rkhanna]

One Sqn or Team is for CI-CT role, only for 6 months.

They're moving just like PARA SF but they're under RR just like GARUD or MARCOs!

Arey CI-CT me nobody wants to invest, this is the standard issue.

Didnt quiet understand - if a SG unit rotates into the Valley they adopt the kit of their host unit? They dont move with their own kit?

"Investing in CI/CT" is a moot point no? You investing in the Unit - not the operation.

Was not how SG did it in the 90s and early 2000s. an SG unit went to Kashmir and its tasking was ISR and to break the logistics and ability of the Opfor to Move and Communicate. They developed their own Humint and often worked with the Ikhwanis.

From what you are saying - they are now just another Alphabet Soup Infantry unit rotating to get "experience"??

 

[Arad Operator]

Didnt quiet understand - if a SG unit rotates into the Valley they adopt the kit of their host unit? They dont move with their own kit?

"Investing in CI/CT" is a moot point no? You investing in the Unit - not the operation.

Was not how SG did it in the 90s and early 2000s. an SG unit went to Kashmir and its tasking was ISR and to break the logistics and ability of the Opfor to Move and Communicate. They developed their own Humint and often worked with the Ikhwanis.

From what you are saying - they are now just another Alphabet Soup Infantry unit rotating to get "experience"??

When a Sqn of SG goes for a CI-CT tenure in the valley or NE, they're are issues Tar-21 Integrals(M21 or ACOG), PIKAs, SVD and Ak-63Ds as standard issue. You won't see them going into a CI Op with F2000 or HK-416s!

Well when 2-3 forces are involved at one Op, we invest in the Op and not in a single unit!

SG's mandates have been changing with the raising, disbandment and reraising of the the unit. MARCOs are way better regarding the ISR and other things you listed.

SG was only 'Special' when it was raised to undertake Army HQ level Ops or to undertake federal contingency roles such as CI-CT in urban area or Anti-Hijack, after NSG was created SG was of no use and hence disbanded. It was reraised with a different mandate but its at best is an Airborne Inf with Spec Ops capabilities(thnx to PARA SF element on deputation for 6yrs)....

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Surely they've better gear but their size is also small. If we go by the numbers in public domain, the combine number of both the MCF and GCF is not even half of PARA SF alone, leaving SFF apart...

But this is SG..

 

[Tier 1 Patriot]

French army equipment at another level
Aur Video kaise bnate hai yeh bhi sikhna chahiye french se
Indian army background music: jagga jitya miln vidhiyan

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Didnt quiet understand - if a SG unit rotates into the Valley they adopt the kit of their host unit? They dont move with their own kit?

"Investing in CI/CT" is a moot point no? You investing in the Unit - not the operation.

Was not how SG did it in the 90s and early 2000s. an SG unit went to Kashmir and its tasking was ISR and to break the logistics and ability of the Opfor to Move and Communicate. They developed their own Humint and often worked with the Ikhwanis.

From what you are saying - they are now just another Alphabet Soup Infantry unit rotating to get "experience"??

I dont understand why would SG need to get experience by doing petty ops?

They are made of the best operators of Para why do they need to go to such ops?

 

[DumbPilot]

I dont think there's one

Wait you're right it's no where on the net exept Google Books, for a guy who wrote 6 books on Indian Millitary history, two of them being his personal accounts and started a newsletter on the same topic, none of his books are available anywhere.

Do one thing, go to your local library, or if you're in college and can and place a "hold" or "reservation" on it. This means the library will notify you when the book becomes available. I ordered 3-4 books like that including Lt Gen PC Katoch's 2nd book in our college library lol

I think you can also order in some books of a more arcane nature. I ordered Erwin Rommel's Infantry Attacks and the famous On War by Carl von Clausewitz in my college library. The next guy who has an interest in that sort of thing will probably be delighted to see the library already has books like it, lol

 

[Mr.Evil]

4 PARA SF

 

[IWIarad11]

4 PARA SF
View attachment 9684
View attachment 9685

Think this is 11/12

Was held at Umroi

 

[gunna]

4 PARA SF
View attachment 9684
View attachment 9685

may be 11/12 PARA SF

 

[Mr.Evil]

Think this is 11/12

Was held at Umroi

may be 11/12 PARA SF

Mujhe bhi whi laga but @Arad Operator said 4SF

 

[gunna]

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/DAAjKtXx76D/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Col Kaushal

 

[rkhanna]

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/04/nx-s1-5100305/navy-commander-photo-rifle-scope-mounted-backward

The commander of a Navy destroyer that’s helping protect the San Diego-based aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt in the Middle East has been relieved of duty about four months after he was seen in a photo firing a rifle with a scope mounted backward.

Can You imagine Indian officers - let alone SOF personel being held to such a standard?!

 

[rkhanna]

When a Sqn of SG goes for a CI-CT tenure in the valley or NE, they're are issues Tar-21 Integrals(M21 or ACOG), PIKAs, SVD and Ak-63Ds as standard issue. You won't see them going into a CI Op with F2000 or HK-416s!

Well when 2-3 forces are involved at one Op, we invest in the Op and not in a single unit!

SG's mandates have been changing with the raising, disbandment and reraising of the the unit. MARCOs are way better regarding the ISR and other things you listed.

SG was only 'Special' when it was raised to undertake Army HQ level Ops or to undertake federal contingency roles such as CI-CT in urban area or Anti-Hijack, after NSG was created SG was of no use and hence disbanded. It was reraised with a different mandate but its at best is an Airborne Inf with Spec Ops capabilities(thnx to PARA SF element on deputation for 6yrs)....

1. This FNs and HKs were test batches if I remmember correctly - primarily in the hands of instructors and very few given out
2. if the HK is an active duty weapon system - its stupid its not getting used downrange. Kinda Like CRPF COBRA being issued the MTARs but not allowed to take it into the field incase they got damaged or lost
3. From What I can make out SG Mandates are by the CO running the unit at any given moment and his linking to CS/Army HQ
4. SG has infact done many special things over the years and not just limited to its original raising function - through the 80s/90s/and early 2000s as well
5. Even our Spec Ops units are essentially Commando Light Infantry units. Our Spec Ops capability has a ceiling IMO

I dont understand why would SG need to get experience by doing petty ops?

They are made of the best operators of Para why do they need to go to such ops?

I have been out of the loop of SG for few years now - all my contacts to that place are now either dead or too old to rememeber well. But my basic understanding is that "Best operators" bit may no longer apply for the following reasons from what i have surmized from various titbits here and there

- no longer run the type of ops that they used to
- very little value add for the Career Progression of Ofsars

Some of it tracks with what ARAD is saying above about its current "Status" (though I dont agree with everything he is saying - specially regarding its history)

 

[IWIarad11]

Mujhe bhi whi laga but @Arad Operator said 4SF

Arad operator sabko ulta seedha bolte hai taki no one can track the units and all. He is the real opsec guy!

SG ko normal airborne infantry bolte hai so that people dont make too many maverick reels