Indian Special Forces

Arad Operator said:
Met a GARUD squad during an official visit to a transport squadron, sometimes ago. All were in this exact MCP camo...:D
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So they made it standard?cause they still use the american desert marpat kinda camo during exercises
 
Airborne22 said:
One of the primary roles of Garuds is SEAD and I'm sure they are there for that alongside regular para-rescue esque operations
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Can't say that its a primary role but its one of the mandates! CCT(G) and other roles are also their...
 
Jedi Operator said:
boss they dont deploy under UN, they do ops in many of those countries, and my that I mean Africa. 2 Para openly stated that they observed the presence of SAS at that time. Similarly there was our MARCOS
And many of our guys studied JSOC or SAS very closely, mostly senior guys in the 90s and early 2000s even the 80s. Read India's Special Forces by Lt Gen PC Katoch, he has mentioned that Indian army attaches to UK were given access to UKSF training.
Heck we've even called former commanding officers or senior members of UKSF, French SF and others on seminars on Special Operations in our own country


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTntM2KMf4c
Just for the sake of it I'm presenting you with one example here on Yt, isko dekh le ek bari.
Click to expand...

Bro, Just answer this, if we study all the Top special forces units and follow their operations closely as you said, why is para SF still a glorified infantry unit who are trained to do para drop?
Do I have to tell you the pathetic state of para SF's urban warfare training is? In many of their room intervention videos para SF are acting like bunch of rebel force doing it for 1st time.
Look at their history, in 2016 EDI building ops they took 3 days to kill 2 terrorists. And lost 4 para SF soldiers.
Look at the equipments, they are the only special forces in this world who stops operations at night and wait for day light. We have seen that in all para operations. You still think they study SAS and JSOC operations? Even Americans were surprised in VAJRA PRAHAR when para SF comes up plans where they avoid night operations and wait for daylight.
Look at the weapons (especially pistol) handling skills of 3 para during their joint excercise with Americans in 2018 vajra prahar

Bunch of ret. Guys conducting seminars on how special forces would work won't make a difference unless active serving officers understands it and do something to improve the training.

Look at the command structure of so called special forces in India.
Do you think Para SF got the idea of mass conversion of airborne infantry into special forces came after their study of JSOC and SAS?

And SAS do conduct training exercises with other special forces who they think are true counterparts and they won't Publicis it

Here is the old pics of delta with SAS during their joint excercise in Norway.

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/C6OhPPRsHv3/?igsh=NTg1Y3M2OHcyODBv
 
Jedi Operator said:
boss they dont deploy under UN, they do ops in many of those countries, and my that I mean Africa. 2 Para openly stated that they observed the presence of SAS at that time. Similarly there was our MARCOS
And many of our guys studied JSOC or SAS very closely, mostly senior guys in the 90s and early 2000s even the 80s. Read India's Special Forces by Lt Gen PC Katoch, he has mentioned that Indian army attaches to UK were given access to UKSF training.
Heck we've even called former commanding officers or senior members of UKSF, French SF and others on seminars on Special Operations in our own country


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTntM2KMf4c
Just for the sake of it I'm presenting you with one example here on Yt, isko dekh le ek bari.
Click to expand...

SAS provides training to foreign special forces soldiers, why don't para SF send their soldiers to SAS for training?
Just giving some military attache some tours into SAS training facility in early 2000s won't make a difference unless Paras actively send soldiers for SAS training and bring SAS instructors to SFTS.
What para does now now is occasionally sending para officers to do US army Ranger course which is nothing but US version of Junior commando course conducted by Indian army in Belgaum. In the last 20 years, para SF never send a soldier to John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School. Even pakis does that.
 
hkdas said:
why don't para SF send their soldiers to SAS for training?
Click to expand...

May be they go who knows, but they will teach them about use of drones and modern tactics which they don't want to learn and go old school way like rambo in armour cart out in open. Past debates with professionals have proven it.
 
hkdas said:
Bro, Just answer this, if we study all the Top special forces units and follow their operations closely as you said, why is para SF still a glorified infantry unit who are trained to do para drop?
Do I have to tell you the pathetic state of para SF's urban warfare training is? In many of their room intervention videos para SF are acting like bunch of rebel force doing it for 1st time.
Look at their history, in 2016 EDI building ops they took 3 days to kill 2 terrorists. And lost 4 para SF soldiers.
Look at the equipments, they are the only special forces in this world who stops operations at night and wait for day light. We have seen that in all para operations. You still think they study SAS and JSOC operations? Even Americans were surprised in VAJRA PRAHAR when para SF comes up plans where they avoid night operations and wait for daylight.
Look at the weapons (especially pistol) handling skills of 3 para during their joint excercise with Americans in 2018 vajra prahar

Bunch of ret. Guys conducting seminars on how special forces would work won't make a difference unless active serving officers understands it and do something to improve the training.

Look at the command structure of so called special forces in India.
Do you think Para SF got the idea of mass conversion of airborne infantry into special forces came after their study of JSOC and SAS?

And SAS do conduct training exercises with other special forces who they think are true counterparts and they won't Publicis it

Here is the old pics of delta with SAS during their joint excercise in Norway.

View: https://www.instagram.com/p/C6OhPPRsHv3/?igsh=NTg1Y3M2OHcyODBv
Click to expand...

I'm sure he'll write up a good answer. Here's one from my end.
firstly - considerng your first point i.e - Para SF is being used as a glorified infantry unit, you yourselves answered your question - "Is being used"- By who - The Cmdrs in Charge and the Foreign/Domestic Policies.

Coming to the pampore incident, they had to clear 100+ rooms (incl halls, bathrooms and much more each with their own complexity) and even rescue several trapped hostages. The number of SF personnel tasked to clear the building from inside was miniscule compared to the one actually required to do so as a result we first lost Capt Pawan Kumar of 10 SF after which a team of 9 SF were inducted, the task was taken up by Capt Mahajan of 9 para, he set up eternal firebases with marksmen and 40mm to clear out as many rooms from outside before getting inside. There's no way they'd carry 100+ flashbangs with them for entry and all. We lost 3 SF operatives in the bid. The forces in support of the op - incl CRPF QAT and SOG weren't trained in CQB that extensively. The task was clearly meant for NSG and not given to them due to reasons we all know.

SF Operations do not stop at night, they are told to excercise strict ROE, nahi toh bhenchod ham bhi kisi bakarwal ko thok ke chhati peetein.

will try my best to answer the second part some other day. Adios mate
 
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hkdas said:
SAS provides training to foreign special forces soldiers, why don't para SF send their soldiers to SAS for training?
Just giving some military attache some tours into SAS training facility in early 2000s won't make a difference unless Paras actively send soldiers for SAS training and bring SAS instructors to SFTS.
What para does now now is occasionally sending para officers to do US army Ranger course which is nothing but US version of Junior commando course conducted by Indian army in Belgaum. In the last 20 years, para SF never send a soldier to John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center and School. Even pakis does that.
Click to expand...
I will try to answer this as per what little I know .
SAS , and US SFs (all of them ) do train other foreign SFs but the training is not same . For the countries that come under direct alliance like NATO , the training will be somewhat good and throughout but still some of the stuff will be kept from them . Even among Nato countries the training specs depend upon the level of trust/influence/control they have . For example the level of training they would give to Germany will be far better than what they give to turkey in a joint training exercise.
Now for a country like India which is close with Russia and is not under direct influence/control from US / UK the training will be pretty basic whic honestly we already know just some new things here and there , they will never teach us any juicy stuff or new SOPs . Like when paras joined Buds, they just took part in the physical selection part of buds , they were not allowed in the tactical training part .
Can't really blame them either training men needs lots of money and why will they invest in a place they will not get any returns .
Now for Ukraine who has practically become a NATOs vassal state and is fully under their control, they teach SBU everything from A to Z .

So for India to get the proper training we need from them either we need to pick a side and suck their dick and give up our FR sovereignty .

Now some blackpill
For a big ass country like india why the fuck do we need to send our men to other countries , our men have been fighting for the last 30 so years . If they are not able to formulate SOPs and research out new tactics and train their men accordingly and equip their men even after seeing so much blood and combat , no amount of foreign influence will work .
You don't spend on your men , don't give them the management and freedom they need , you don't learn , you don't upgrade but keep on expanding ....... training (with belts) our civ and mil babus is more needed rn .
 
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Baseplate said:
I will try to answer this as per what little I know .
SAS , and US SFs (all of them ) do train other foreign SFs but the training is not same . For the countries that come under direct alliance like NATO , the training will be somewhat good and throughout but still some of the stuff will be kept from them . Even among Nato countries the training specs depend upon the level of trust/influence/control they have . For example the level of training they would give to Germany will be far better than what they give to turkey in a joint training exercise.
Now for a country like India which is close with Russia and is not under direct influence/control from US / UK the training will be pretty basic whic honestly we already know just some new things here and there , they will never teach us any juicy stuff or new SOPs . Like when paras joined Buds, they just took part in the physical selection part of buds , they were not allowed in the tactical training part .
Can't really blame them either training men needs lots of money and why will they invest in a place they will not get any returns .
Now for Ukraine who has practically become a NATOs vassal state and is fully under their control, they teach SBU everything from A to Z .

So for India to get the proper training we need from them either we need to pick a side and suck their dick and give up our FR sovereignty .

Now some blackpill
For a big ass country like india why the fuck do we need to send our men to other countries , our men have been fighting for the last 30 so years . If they are not able to formulate SOPs and research out new tactics and train their men accordingly and equip their men even after seeing so much blood and combat , no amount of foreign influence will work .
You don't spend on your men , don't give them the management and freedom they need , you don't learn , you don't upgrade but keep on expanding ....... training (with belts) our civ and mil babus is more needed rn .
Click to expand...
What we are facing today in pir panjal and jammu region.. west and USA faced worse in 90s and during GWOT... I'm not saying the only option is to suck their dick, but the fact remains they have better exposure and modern SOPs/equipment. The question we should ask is if the IA/SF leadership willing to learn? Even our neighbors learn from their mistakes and imo considering what they are facing in NW Frontier, their forces are very good.. they don't even send SF in most ops and their efficiency regarding modernization is too good... almost like they are operating under black economy (which I'm sure they do) but still as long as IA isn't willing to leave its age old tactics/ rules/ SOPs/ rituals and every other shit, it can never modernize.. everything starts from basics like small firearms, proper vests, helmets, grips. That's why I say go like China way, hire retired western ex-SOF guys.. surely money isn't an issue. We have 80B$ budget bruh. 5 years.. in 5 years we won't even recognize most of the SF. That's just how much time and will it takes
 
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