Indian Special Forces

[abingdonboy]

Yeah, just drop that fugly bullpup and use an AR , that would have made this pic perfect.
Yella ok Tavor yaake !

Tavor adoption is actually a symptom of the problem and can’t just be overlooked as everything else would be fine if not for it

How did India’s most ‘elite’ units across all 3 services end up with something so unsuited to SOF roles that even their domestic SOF (IDF) don’t use it?

If the selection was based on anything other than the merits of the rifle then how can anyone be sure of future equipment choices? Equally as worrying is if it was picked thinking it was the best option by ‘experts’ inside Indian SOF

Anything less than merit and utility and Indian SOF are fundamentally flawed, I think we all already know this is the case

All show, no teeth

 

[abingdonboy]

VBSS already have MP-5s in good numbers but not enough to phase out all the Sterlings, X-95 SMGs or MP9 they might buy due to similarity with the SF.

5th largest economy in the world can’t buy a few hundred 9mm SMG

 

[abingdonboy]

Please, explain to me how can a special forces unit provide quality training within just 150 acres(NSWTTC) OR 1500 acres (SFTS Bakloh) or >50 acres (INS KARNA). When other foreign special forces required more than 8000 acres of land for providing good training on basic special operations!!????
Please, explain to me if indian training centers are so good then why indian special forces soldiers who visited KASOTC were so impressed by training infrastructure there and took their time there more as learning new things than winning the competition they gone there to participate!!!??

Let me ask you something based on open source information, how could you even consider indian SF training as world class when Indians SF only got their 1st modular CQB training center in 2017, 1st indoor firing range in late 2018, 3rd generation NVG after 2015(till now it's not standard issued)!!???? Meantime their western counterparts had all these since 1980!!?? And it takes decades to develop tactics on new things.
Tell why indian SFTS don't have sniper firing range of more than 1500m!? (There is no concept of firing beyond 1500m in India and the current range got only after 2019, pakis developed a world class sniper training school in 2015, tho they got good sniper training from foreign countries since 2008). And Marcos doesn't even have a good sniper firing range of more than 1000m.
There is no concept of tactical driving among indian special forces (Marcos do get some from civilian off road driving teams on off road driving, noting beyond that, concept of TD doesn't exists in para SF's training syllabus, they don't have a training area for it).

Other than Garuds commandos training centre there are no runways in any of special forces training centers in India.

AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, HOW MANY SPECIAL FORCES SOLDIERS ACTUALLY GET THE CHANCE TO GET TRAINED AT SFTS !!??

I can go on about things which para SF doesn't even heard about but other morden SF have. But my argument with you doesn't change anything untill indian special forces decide to change themselves.

So many other things you could say but the point is the same

Special forces are special because of their skills not because they carry a Tavor and shout COMMANDO with a bandana on

Listen to any US SOF (even tier 2/3) and they are constantly on super niche courses, what are Indian equivalents doing? Learning parade marching/running around Kashmir in daylight? Tier 1 guys in America/UK get sent to literally learn how to break into safes and build SATCOM terminals, Indian SOF are maybe in the jungle learning how to skin a snake.

 

[username unkown]

With thermals you can still navigate but with NVGs you cannot detect.

NVGs take you from point A to point B and in between you can scan using a Thermal to check if you are not being ambushed or followed.

The best combo is NVG on your head and Thermal on your rifle..even if you have no NVG and can navigate with your eyes and have a thermal on your rifle you are still good.

You can also use Thermals to detect IED as various parts have different relation with temperate like Batteries vs soil or grass.

I agree in modern warfare a rifle and thermal are one of the most imp component eventrts have realised it and are using them
Thermal are cheap and much more useful so i think we should give them as std for our sf and even give them to Ghatak in big numbers

 

[username unkown]

Tavor adoption is actually a symptom of the problem and can’t just be overlooked as everything else would be fine if not for it

How did India’s most ‘elite’ units across all 3 services end up with something so unsuited to SOF roles that even their domestic SOF (IDF) don’t use it?

If the selection was based on anything other than the merits of the rifle then how can anyone be sure of future equipment choices? Equally as worrying is if it was picked thinking it was the best option by ‘experts’ inside Indian SOF

Anything less than merit and utility and Indian SOF are fundamentally flawed, I think we all already know this is the case

All show, no teeth

Muh gora sof
Keep larping that's what you do keep going

 

[abingdonboy]

Why is there such disparity between kits? The guy on the left looks squared away and then look at the rest!

In every modern military personal purchases are sanctioned as long as they conform to a published standard

In Indian frontline units- particularly SOF- you see no such conformity, here the boys are buying everything down to their combat clothing from disparate vendors.

I dare say there has been multiple fratricide incidents to date based on the inability of
The Indian military to enforce basic standards. After all these decades they are still not able to instill
The importance of uniformity or being identifiable. In Ukraine Russian and Ukraine units are sensible enough to wear opposing coloured armbands, in India who knows who that guy in combat fatigues is, until it’s too late………

 

[username unkown]

The something missing is- professionalism

High cuts exist because of US tier 1 units; they started to wear COMTACs under their ACHs during early days of GWOT but as they found this uncomfortable began cutting their ACHs into a high cut shape, OEMs came along and created a commercial version of this.

What are Indian units doing but blindly aping what they see others doing? LARPing but with less interest than actual LARPers. Everything on a Western SOF has a purpose and form follows function, Indian units are merely trying to *look* the part

It blows my mind that they appear so amateur after 20+++ years of actual CT experience but this goes deep into cultural differences that I don’t want to start right now

Suffice to say Indian units want to look the part, others are the part.

The fact that you wrote this in case of Marcos just show you are here to show muh gora sf superior
You are here just to spread hate keep going keep larping

 

[abingdonboy]

The fact that you wrote this in case of Marcos just show you are here to show muh gora sf superior
You are here just to spread hate keep going keep larping

I’m not here to make anyone feel better

In the real world full of professionals it’s clear to spot the LARPers from the real deal.

MARCOs are the least sh!t that’s all we can realistically say but if you watch videos and not just stare are ‘drip’ pictures you’ll feel the standard unease that comes whenever Indian SOFs disappoint you. Almost anytime there’s a video of these same guys they look absurdly uncomfortable and lacking dynamic movement

I hope someone can post that video of MARCOs practicing on a oil rig at night from 2-3 years ago, the amount of flaggings in that one video is more than I’ve seen from any western SOF in 10+ years- forget about how Rigid they look

 

[username unkown]

I’m not here to make anyone feel better

In the real world full of professionals it’s clear to spot the LARPers from the real deal.

MARCOs are the least sh!t that’s all we can realistically say but if you watch videos and not just stare are ‘drip’ pictures you’ll feel the standard unease that comes whenever Indian SOFs disappoint you. Almost anytime there’s a video of these same guys they look absurdly uncomfortable and lacking dynamic movement

I hope someone can post that video of MARCOs practicing on a oil rig at night from 2-3 years ago, the amount of flaggings in that one video is more than I’ve seen from any western SOF in 10+ years- forget about how Rigid they look

Look at any recent public appearance of Marcos in most of thease are with dynamic movement and comfort and Marcos used same gear in actual ops and demonstration on navy day para are also catching up but you are here to just spread hate and cry muh gora sof

I would have agreed to few of your points we could have had an constructive debate /argument but you are here to just spread hate and cry supir gora sf the best

And I am telling you right now the superiority gora sf enjoy will be shattered and they will soon be forced to fight near pear forces and not sone goat Herder with AK and sandals in afganistan

 

[abingdonboy]

Damn boy! This is literally going to be the most advanced shooting range in India or anywhere in Asia period

Ambition is very decent, will have to see what their execution is like but the good thing is there’s plenty of Indian companies specialised in combat sim stuff already and this can come up relatively quickly

Have to commend the navy- they genuinely seem to get the need to train realistically, they already have decent training facilities for MARCOs down in A&N, but this is in their culture- they have realistic damage control and sea faring simulators for their crews whilst the IA has their troops running around screaming COMMANDO against static targets

Sadly without a decent SOCOM capability India wilp
Always be backwards when it comes to SOF capability

 

[abingdonboy]

Look at any recent public appearance of Marcos in most of thease are with dynamic movement and comfort and Marcos used same gear in actual ops and demonstration on navy day para are also catching up but you are here to just spread hate and cry muh gora sof

I would have agreed to few of your points we could have had an constructive debate /argument but you are here to just spread hate and cry supir gora sf the best

And I am telling you right now the superiority gora sf enjoy will be shattered and they will soon be forced to fight near pear forces and not sone goat Herder with AK and sandals in afganistan

Indian SOF teams [DELETED - *MOD's NOTE - this is a falsehood] [Mod's edit* - ***sustained casualties***] &fighting Pakis with dried fruit rations so you arguments about Afghanis in sandals is moot- those boys had 100kg IEDs, SAMs, HMGs etc.

Only a few posts above you have evidence that MARCOs don’t even practice proper shooting stances so I hardly believe they’ve fixed their dynamic movement skills
Within the last few months

 

[abingdonboy]

??
View attachment 18874

Standard cope

We’ve all got eyes and the video is out there for all to see


View: https://x.com/ksingh_1469/status/1869424703104065987?s=46

Boys were wearing 0 PPE to save the civilians of course

 

[username unkown]

Tavor adoption is actually a symptom of the problem and can’t just be overlooked as everything else would be fine if not for it

How did India’s most ‘elite’ units across all 3 services end up with something so unsuited to SOF roles that even their domestic SOF (IDF) don’t use it?

If the selection was based on anything other than the merits of the rifle then how can anyone be sure of future equipment choices? Equally as worrying is if it was picked thinking it was the best option by ‘experts’ inside Indian SOF

All show, no teeth

You are talking about tavor adoption lets talk about xm 7 sig with almost no reliablety still getting military contract anyways
With xm7 bulky rifle can't do urban engagement
No cqb
Imagine clearing trenches in Ukraine using xm 7
And then due to big round vinstead of 30 round mag you get 20 round magzine
So with 7 magzine you go from 210 rds to 140 real progress

 

[username unkown]

Indian SOF teams get wiped out fighting Pakis with dried fruit rations so you arguments about Afghanis in sandals is moot- those boys had 100kg IEDs, SAMs, HMGs etc.

Afgan in sandals is moot point want to talk about big diff in geography of areas and terrain afghanistan and Kashmir have completely diff climatic condition
And ied hmg and taliban didn't have any sams and us and allies had air power you bombed afganistan and iraq like crazy
Off course kashmir and afganistan is two completely diff case

 

[abingdonboy]

Afgan in sandals is moot point want to talk about big diff in geography of areas and terrain afghanistan and Kashmir have completely diff climatic condition
And ied hmg and taliban didn't have any sams and us and allies had air power you bombed afganistan and iraq like crazy
Off course kashmir and afganistan is two completely diff case

Afghans did have SAMs and RPGs and took down many ISAF helos

For the entirety of Afghan ISAF bad maybe 100,000 personnel, for entirety of the much smaller JK India has how many times that density?

By the IA’s own admission there are only ever really ~200 tangoes in JK yet they inflict huge damages on the Indian units and that too with little more than small arms and occasionally an IED

 

[Gessler]

Really? 1970s US cop stance seems to point to something else

@Gessler

For some reason, Indian units never did update their pistol stances & grips.

MARCOS managed to learn high-porting their rifles but I guess they never got around to observing how pistols are wielded these days (and modern pistols like the Masada they're holding are specifically designed to enable that grip).

I just don't get it - all it takes is watching a 5 min youtube video to realize what they're doing differently - and why the new way is better. I guess training SOPs are still very much top-down...so it's a matter of the right person getting the information, either through his own inquisitiveness or imparted via joint training.

 

[Noob]

These guys only want to pose


View: https://x.com/ksingh_1469/status/1869423396116942936?s=46

PLA will tear them up


View: https://x.com/ksingh_1469/status/1869841640111911060?s=46

The fact that PLA is hiring western Tier 1 sof dudes who have set-up in south east asia and providing them with big fat stack while their local industry continue producing the gear shows everything we wanna know about them. That's called professionalism. I am not saying we aren't going anything we are getting there but we are slow in it and our tactics aren't on par with Western sof ofc.

 

[username unkown]

Afghans did have SAMs and RPGs and took down many ISAF helos

For the entirety of Afghan ISAF bad maybe 100,000 personnel, for entirety of the much smaller JK India has how many times that density?

By the IA’s own admission there are only ever really ~200 tangoes in JK yet they inflict huge damages on the Indian units and that too with little more than small arms and occasionally an IED

Afghan did have manpads in negligible number Soviet leftover which werent much threat to you and still you had ungodly fire power against them still

In Kashmir it is completely diff than afganistan we had this conversation in length in ci CT thread
Kashmiri forest have thick vegetation with mountain deadly combo you can't use drone heli or anything you have send your troops on foot for search and destroy (SAD) and in this condition trts are hiding bin holes small caves in that condition they will spot you first and will fire at you first giving them proper advantage of terrain indian army is at disadvantage still we continue to eradicate thease pigs yesterday 5 were killed
Even with proper training and proper equipment your gora troops would have met same fate here in jnk army and security forces only allowed to use small arms and drones for survalence

 

[IWIarad11]

How much can one learn from YT videos and books if they are interested? (In terms of tactics like CQB, stance, etc.) - am asking on an SOF level not some larper who wants to learn for fun.

 

[Airborne22]

Afghan did have manpads in negligible number Soviet leftover which werent much threat to you and still you had ungodly fire power against them still

In Kashmir it is completely diff than afganistan we had this conversation in length in ci CT thread
Kashmiri forest have thick vegetation with mountain deadly combo you can't use drone heli or anything you have send your troops on foot for search and destroy (SAD) and in this condition trts are hiding bin holes small caves in that condition they will spot you first and will fire at you first giving them proper advantage of terrain indian army is at disadvantage still we continue to eradicate thease pigs yesterday 5 were killed
Even with proper training and proper equipment your gora troops would have met same fate here in jnk army and security forces only allowed to use small arms and drones for survalence

Lets not forget we are fighting on our own land. Our movement and how we operate follows the laws of the land. During peak in 1992-2005 mujahideens carried considerable amount of RPGs, IEDs, conducted fidayeens, infinite amount of RDX