Indian Special Forces

[Gessler]

Really? 1970s US cop stance seems to point to something else

@Gessler

For some reason, Indian units never did update their pistol stances & grips.

MARCOS managed to learn high-porting their rifles but I guess they never got around to observing how pistols are wielded these days (and modern pistols like the Masada they're holding are specifically designed to enable that grip).

I just don't get it - all it takes is watching a 5 min youtube video to realize what they're doing differently - and why the new way is better. I guess training SOPs are still very much top-down...so it's a matter of the right person getting the information, either through his own inquisitiveness or imparted via joint training.

 

[Noob]

These guys only want to pose


View: https://x.com/ksingh_1469/status/1869423396116942936?s=46

PLA will tear them up


View: https://x.com/ksingh_1469/status/1869841640111911060?s=46

The fact that PLA is hiring western Tier 1 sof dudes who have set-up in south east asia and providing them with big fat stack while their local industry continue producing the gear shows everything we wanna know about them. That's called professionalism. I am not saying we aren't going anything we are getting there but we are slow in it and our tactics aren't on par with Western sof ofc.

 

[Arad Operator]

For some reason, Indian units never did update their pistol stances & grips.

MARCOS managed to learn high-porting their rifles but I guess they never got around to observing how pistols are wielded these days (and modern pistols like the Masada they're holding are specifically designed to enable that grip).

I just don't get it - all it takes is watching a 5 min youtube video to realize what they're doing differently - and why the new way is better. I guess training SOPs are still very much top-down...so it's a matter of the right person getting the information, either through his own inquisitiveness or imparted via joint training.

They're more concerned about how their grouping is with the pistols from 10,20,30 or 50mtrs. Stance is the last thing they care about...

 

[username unkown]

Afghans did have SAMs and RPGs and took down many ISAF helos

For the entirety of Afghan ISAF bad maybe 100,000 personnel, for entirety of the much smaller JK India has how many times that density?

By the IA’s own admission there are only ever really ~200 tangoes in JK yet they inflict huge damages on the Indian units and that too with little more than small arms and occasionally an IED

Afghan did have manpads in negligible number Soviet leftover which werent much threat to you and still you had ungodly fire power against them still

In Kashmir it is completely diff than afganistan we had this conversation in length in ci CT thread
Kashmiri forest have thick vegetation with mountain deadly combo you can't use drone heli or anything you have send your troops on foot for search and destroy (SAD) and in this condition trts are hiding bin holes small caves in that condition they will spot you first and will fire at you first giving them proper advantage of terrain indian army is at disadvantage still we continue to eradicate thease pigs yesterday 5 were killed
Even with proper training and proper equipment your gora troops would have met same fate here in jnk army and security forces only allowed to use small arms and drones for survalence

 

[IWIarad11]

How much can one learn from YT videos and books if they are interested? (In terms of tactics like CQB, stance, etc.) - am asking on an SOF level not some larper who wants to learn for fun.

 

[Airborne22]

Afghan did have manpads in negligible number Soviet leftover which werent much threat to you and still you had ungodly fire power against them still

In Kashmir it is completely diff than afganistan we had this conversation in length in ci CT thread
Kashmiri forest have thick vegetation with mountain deadly combo you can't use drone heli or anything you have send your troops on foot for search and destroy (SAD) and in this condition trts are hiding bin holes small caves in that condition they will spot you first and will fire at you first giving them proper advantage of terrain indian army is at disadvantage still we continue to eradicate thease pigs yesterday 5 were killed
Even with proper training and proper equipment your gora troops would have met same fate here in jnk army and security forces only allowed to use small arms and drones for survalence

Lets not forget we are fighting on our own land. Our movement and how we operate follows the laws of the land. During peak in 1992-2005 mujahideens carried considerable amount of RPGs, IEDs, conducted fidayeens, infinite amount of RDX

 

[IWIarad11]

Indian SOF teams get wiped out fighting Pakis with dried fruit rations so you arguments about Afghanis in sandals is moot- those boys had 100kg IEDs, SAMs, HMGs etc.

Only a few posts above you have evidence that MARCOs don’t even practice proper shooting stances so I hardly believe they’ve fixed their dynamic movement skills
Within the last few months

When did entire Indian SOF team get wiped out? Don't bring up the Kandi ambush of 9 Para because I know you wouldn't know what exactly went down there. Blame the higher ups for whatever tomfoolery they do and use SOF for. The SF guys are doing the best they can on an unit level - buying new PPEs, upgrading their rifles, sending proposals for new weapons based on observation in joint exes. Criticism is fair and that's what we do here all day. But we also have a tendency to jump the gun and go berserk with our armchair assessments. Yeah Indian SOF is nowhere close to western SOF - but do they have the exposure, funding, relentless support or anything to come close? Be specific in your calling out game as much as you can. Because for every taunt of yours, there is a young lad from the hills, all of 24-25 who selflessly died by coming out of his cover and saving his other comrades when caught in an ambush.

 

[Airborne22]

How much can one learn from YT videos and books if they are interested? (In terms of tactics like CQB, stance, etc.) - am asking on an SOF level not some larper who wants to learn for fun.

These things are institutional. If it was for YT what was the need for hiring instructors ? Special units practice these basics so much that these become a stimulus. You have to watch very selective videos on YT to learn about the tip of the iceberg.

 

[IWIarad11]

These things are institutional. If it was for YT what was the need for hiring instructors ? Special units practice these basics so much that these become a stimulus. You have to watch very selective videos on YT to learn about the tip of the iceberg.

Thought so too.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

For learning these things the correct attitude for learning should also be there.

Except Col Singh,Maj Avinash and Maj Sushant how many officers in podcast showed such attitude..be honest to yourself.

I once asked Gen Pandey about why the Army is not modernising and why is Para SF taking so many hits and not doing anything..

He replied saying everything is fine and we have the best equipments and training.

I was shocked thinking if he truly believes that or he is giving me a propoganda version.

Turns out from his interview its a propaganda to make enemies fear us from his latest podcast.

You might want to watch from 22:50

Where he says we review foreign equipment and adapt.


View: https://youtu.be/TJmDZniV4q8?si=Eo0P6UKuAO2RqK9X

 

[GhatiyaOperator]

I am still so confused on that Kandi Forest ops, just seeking info not any debates
(Sorry to bring it up again but I was not that active in 2023 so only read some headlines)
can someone just sum it up what happened?
for the first few hours they labelled it as an IED attack but then later added details + paff footage surfaced, So thats all I can recall from headlines and few tweets but any other info on this

 

[IWIarad11]

I am still so confused on that Kandi Forest ops, just seeking info not any debates
(Sorry to bring it up again but I was not that active in 2023 so only read some headlines)
can someone just sum it up what happened?
for the first few hours they labelled it as an IED attack but then later added details + paff footage surfaced, So thats all I can recall from headlines and few tweets but any other info on this

That's army ka std sop for long. Bolo kuch aur as you gather more info on what the fuck happened. Problem is these inbreds started releasing footages. So an ambush party of 9 para went into the forests to kill the trts involved in a recent convoy ambush (on super botched intel). As they were advancing through a thin track lined by thick foliage on both sides, these inbreds ensconced in the bushes opened point blank burst fire that literally caught them in the face (after triggering a string of remote ieds that stunned the boys). They were probably moving in a file with distance in between each operator and the squad leader got hit first. Seeing the officer go down, the boys jumped in to save him and got severely shot at. Sadly they couldn't retaliate. Then the inbreds took headshots, punched their faces, stole their tavors, mocked and made videos. When later evacuated 2 of them lost lives in the hospital while other 3 died on the spot. The officer however lived on, miraculously. 3 months later, 9 para crossed into Neelum valley and chopped 4 heads in a PAFF training camp and took one back. They have since killed all but one involved in that ambush on different dates. For e.g. Umar Lone in Bandipora when 9 para joined RR and SOG to finish him off. The informant who gave the intel is also rumuored to not being heard of after that.

 

[Airborne22]

I am still so confused on that Kandi Forest ops, just seeking info not any debates
(Sorry to bring it up again but I was not that active in 2023 so only read some headlines)
can someone just sum it up what happened?
for the first few hours they labelled it as an IED attack but then later added details + paff footage surfaced, So thats all I can recall from headlines and few tweets but any other info on this

An ambush with anti personnel ied/grenade on an inclined tract -> almost all operators of that squad got fragmentation injuries -> firefight ensued quickly -> the terrorists were aware of the squad that was moving up the hill as they were pushed into this op quickly, Ogws gave the exact nos/composition and the route they were taking.
Note that you cannot climb such inclines taking some alternate route that too with heavy load. Try entering top down and terrorists will run away, try entering from the hill's base and you'll be spotted easily and your only path will be plugged off by the terrorists

ps - PAFF footages were after the firefight ended. The "potshots" that they were showing were taken after our soldiers were long dead.

 

[Jedi Operator]

Was missing the good old Abingdonboy rants like in the old forum.....it is so much better now

 

[GhatiyaOperator]

Also one more thing that I wanted to ask, I had read Vikramjit sir's article on that 48 RR (Dec'2023) ambush - he mentioned that Charlie Company commander received Video calls from anonymous numbers just before the ambush and the trts initially wanted to target that officer
Q.) How did they get his number? Is it common for these officers to give out numbers to people?

and one thing is clear from the start and this just supports it more that these smaller grps of trts which have good optics,rifles and training are just for Psy Ops like if they released the video of a company commander getting ambushed + mutilations . . .
Later they also ambushed Capt. Thapa's team (I think he was about to be promoted and was already an on-field Major)

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Also one more thing that I wanted to ask, I had read Vikramjit sir's article on that 48 RR (Dec'2023) ambush - he mentioned that Charlie Company commander received Video calls from anonymous numbers just before the ambush and the trts initially wanted to target that officer
Q.) How did they get his number? Is it common for these officers to give out numbers to people?

and one thing is clear from the start and this just supports it more that these smaller grps of trts which have good optics,rifles and training are just for Psy Ops like if they released the video of a company commander getting ambushed + mutilations . . .
Later they also ambushed Capt. Thapa's team (I think he was about to be promoted and was already an on-field Major)
View attachment 19026

Yes its common to have numbers of Army officers among villagers for help and all.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Was missing the good old Abingdonboy rants like in the old forum.....it is so much better now

He is not lying only thing is he is blunt which we are not.

 

[Baseplate]

An ambush with anti personnel ied/grenade on an inclined tract -> almost all operators of that squad got fragmentation injuries -> firefight ensued quickly -> the terrorists were aware of the squad that was moving up the hill as they were pushed into this op quickly, Ogws gave the exact nos/composition and the route they were taking.
Note that you cannot climb such inclines taking some alternate route that too with heavy load. Try entering top down and terrorists will run away, try entering from the hill's base and you'll be spotted easily and your only path will be plugged off by the terrorists

ps - PAFF footages were after the firefight ended. The "potshots" that they were showing were taken after our soldiers were long dead.

has the captured tavor with night sights recovered yet ?

 

[lexCommando]

As far as mordenisation ongoing in para sf i think something similar to it would be final result
View attachment 18995
View attachment 18996
Some unit may go for something diff than armasen like 1 para
View attachment 18997

You just have to add pvs31 or tata rajak nods
Or pvs 14 or tonbo spartan thermals in this photo
Headset might vary or diff in diff units but mostly I see chances of silynx clarus in ear , invisiyo t 7 over ear and otto 20m diver head set

I think this is more than decent
I think pvs 31 is good but it is bit older what about enhanced nvg with ti fusion i know drdo is working on it and getting tata rajak is a big upgrade fir para sf

Thermal are alot cheaper than nvg and lot more useful in combat i think thermal clip on should be given as std to every sf and ghatak operator

(For context
Nvg is useful in navigation and thermal in detection)

overall I see bright future

On camofage indian armed forces including sf will remain mr worldwide getting camp from all over the world and using them instead of actual std camo

Why do I feel like I have seen the third guy before too.. I don’t remember but maybe during a search op video from Kathua ig

 

[GhatiyaOperator]

Why do I feel like I have seen the third guy before too.. I don’t remember but maybe during a search op video from Kathua ig

Its from that video i think