Indian Special Forces

[Airborne22]

has the captured tavor with night sights recovered yet ?

I dont know about this particular thing sorry

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

2 decades still he know nothing about millitancy in Kashmir and not even basics damm what was he doing
You are blunt and I respect your criticism to para sf and understand them
But this guy doesn't know shit he seems retarded to me

That difference is there because i know that soldiers and young officers are pushed.

I being in India and belonging to a military family have privelages of human resources which he doesnt.

Also like i have said earlier Para SF is still the best SF in India for conducting any operation on land.

The basic soldiering of Para SF is far superior to anyone else.

What i dont like is the attitude of higher ups and senior officers for not taking stand.

All these ops where Para SF got pinned down are incidents where they should have not been there in the first place.

 

[username unkown]

That difference is there because i know that soldiers and young officers are pushed.

I being in India and belonging to a military family have privelages of human resources which he doesnt.

Also like i have said earlier Para SF is still the best SF in India for conducting any operation on land.

The basic soldiering of Para SF is far superior to anyone else.

What i dont like is the attitude of higher ups and senior officers for not taking stand.

All these ops where Para SF got pinned down are incidents where they should have not been there in the first place.

I agree firstly
ghataks should be used and with proper equipment
And all this casualty was majorly due to killhungry senior officer and flawed intel kashmir is mainly intel based no matter how much fire power you have without proper intel you won't have good day

if I am not wrong some soldier on old forum said same thing among other things

 

[IWIarad11]

has the captured tavor with night sights recovered yet ?

Night sight toh nahi tha afaik remember. Old gen tavor with itl mars and dual mags duct tapped together. Not recovered probably as it might have been disposed off later.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Night sight toh nahi tha afaik remember. Old gen tavor with itl mars and dual mags duct tapped together. Not recovered probably as it might have been disposed off later.

Could have been moved to POK as a war trophy to be flashed in propoganda videos.

 

[IWIarad11]

Could have been moved to POK as a war trophy to be flashed in propoganda videos.

Yes, very much possible. Not seen yet so disposed theory is still on. But sad anyway.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

Yes, very much possible. Not seen yet so disposed theory is still on. But sad anyway.

Chalta he bhai..part of war.

Unke SSG k ser k sath toh taliban football khelta he..hume kya hi dikha denge.

 

[IWIarad11]

Chalta he bhai..part of war.

Unke SSG k ser k sath toh taliban football khelta he..hume kya hi dikha denge.

Yeah.

 

[abingdonboy]

No they didn't inflict huge damages. You are engaging in hyperbole. Please back up your assertions.

These aren’t huge damages?

Militants attack Indian army base in Kashmir 'killing 17' - BBC News

Heavily-armed militants attack an army base in Indian-administered Kashmir, killing at least 17 soldiers in an attack officials appear to be blaming on Pakistan.

www.bbc.com

Five Dead in Rebel Attack on Indian Army Base in Kashmir

Suspected rebels attacked an army camp in Indian-administered Kashmir killing three soldiers before being shot dead themselves, police said.

thedefensepost.com

Recalling the Pulwama terrorist attack: what happened on Feb 14, 2019?

Five years ago, a Jaish-e-Muhammad terrorist rammed an explosives-laden car into a convoy of the CRPF. The incident led to a surgical strike in Pakistan by the Indian Air Force. Here's what happened.

indianexpress.com

Death Toll From Attack on Indian Air Force Base Rises

The attack on the Pathankot air force base, which started before dawn Saturday, left seven Indian troops and four gunmen dead.

www.nbcnews.com

In a serious country these would all be scandals of the highest order


Let’s just ignore the fact that this is decades into this conflict and they are still exploiting the most basic of SOP breaches

That’s not a wipe out. That’s sustaining casualties. The team was not wiped out.

Ahh that’s right, not a wipeout just a few more guys in boxes? Cause one guy had a heartbeat at the end of it it’s all good and another job well done.


What was Kandi? EDI? Kupwara? These are just off the top of my head. I can’t think of another ‘SF’ in the last 50 years that has seen such a high % of their insertions obliterated as Indian ‘SF’

If you really want to open this can of worms- the K/D ratio is always so abysmal when Indian units are involved. A handful of goat herders are able to evade and hit at will- 26/11, Pathankot, PAFF etc etc and then we are forced on these sites to sit around and defend them, to argue the minutia of why it was actually a tactical victory despite all the losses and time taken. Special forces are meant to be just that- superior in training, tactics, equipment and why? So they can disproportionately inflict harm on the enemy. A 1:1 kill ratio (at best) is not something to be proud of

Oh but these are all reactionary ops you’ll say, everyone else is hitting the enemy in their beds. Is this really an excuse? SF throwing themselves at every CASO and QRF mission going just further highlights my point that India has no SOFs because it has no strategic employment mindset.

 

[KumaoniReborn]

Oh God please make my weekend..

Kumaoni vs Abingdonboy

Its funny cuz 95% of his points are correct. Be it about upper brass. Be it about lack of modernization. Be it about Paras role as infantry and security. I only disagree with him about kashmir conflict and i feel like he gets wrong at the wrong people sometimes as individual units can only do so much for modernization.

 

[abingdonboy]

Again, small team ambushes are much harder to detect than larger group ambushes, especially if the team if well coordinated like they are in the Kashmir conflict. Not to mention the fact that the militants in Kashmir now are fighting a completely different battle as to the jihad tier combat that was seen in the 90s. We are seeing more of a ltte style of “hybrid militancy”

Not to mention, the fact that the IA doesn’t use any aerial assets or anything above platoon tier weapons in the conflict to avoid further collateral damage. The only means of hunting militants in kashmir IS intelligence.

Always the same Copium.

So if militants In JK are *so* advanced and sophisticated today why is the Indian security establishment’s response the same as it has always been?

Daylight CASOs, reactionary operations, static positions, large scale flooding of units area ‘domination’

Forget Afghan if it makes you guys happy, what about Northern Ireland? That has more parallels with JK at this point- were the SAS going around in daylight patrol to contacts? The IRA had a heavy bounty on any SAS operator for a reason- they were the only ones they feared

We’ve all seen that PAFF video where they are systemically dismantling an entire Para ‘SF’ squad in the broad daylight. How anyone can defend this nonsense is beyond me

And before you say this is what they are asked to do BS- you think modi/doval are on the phone issuing orders to brigades and companies? Politicians give mandates- it is firmly up to the ‘professionals’ how they execute

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

And before you say this is what they are asked to do BS- you think modi/doval are on the phone issuing orders to brigades and companies? Politicians give mandates- it is firmly up to the ‘professionals’ how they execute

Here i think your understanding of things are not correct imo

Modi or Doval dont look after such petty affairs.

The pressure comes from DGMO or COAS who put pressure on the Corp Commander who is a Lt General.

Lt Gen puts pressure on his Brigade Commander..Either Brigade commander or Let Gen above him decide that the Ghatak or Infantry units are useless in such high class ops and they are only worthy of overpowering a sorrounding enemy and shooting a RL.

So this decision is made to put Para SF.

A lot of pressure is put on the team commander directly from the Brigader or Lt General on radio..

Hello..ya whats the status..how much time..etc etc every few hours.

A Good officer takes the stand but some cannot which leads to casualties.

The op in Pampore is a classic case of such!

The young officer is dead and the higher ups are celebrities…reminds me of a cartoon where on one side General is having a whiskey with certificates on the wall and old parents of a matyred soldier are looking at the wall with a photo hanging of their son on the other.

During surgical strikes also such pressure was coming on from COAS to Northern Army commander who even told his radio operator to say he is not available for calls…As mentioned in an interview.

 

[abingdonboy]

Exactly this guy doesn't know anything about kashmir and is larping here n online forum and crying muh superior gora sof

Muh merit, muh professionalism, muh operational success

Am I doing this right?

 

[Airborne22]

SF throwing themselves

sf doesn't conduct ops at their own will

Here i think your understanding of things are not correct imo

Modi or Doval dont look after such petty affairs.

The pressure comes from DGMO or COAS who put pressure on the Corp Commander who is a Lt General.

Lt Gen puts pressure on his Brigade Commander..Either Brigade commander or Let Gen above him decide that the Ghatak or Infantry units are useless in such high class ops and they are only worthy of overpowering a sorrounding enemy and shooting a RL.

So this decision is made to put Para SF.

A lot of pressure is put on the team commander directly from the Brigader or Lt General on radio..

Hello..ya whats the status..how much time..etc etc every few hours.

A Good officer takes the stand but some cannot which leads to casualties.

The op in Pampore is a classic case of such!

The young officer is dead and the higher ups are celebrities…reminds me of a cartoon where on one side General is having a whiskey with certificates on the wall and old parents of a matyred soldier are looking at the wall with a photo hanging of their son.

Poetically Accurate descruption of the things that happen. Same was the case in kandi, all of the soldiers had a promising career but were pushed into action in haste. No the intel wasn't botched... it was the systematic pressure/ hastyness of higher ups and that fucked that op up.

 

[KumaoniReborn]

Always the same Copium.

So if militants In JK are *so* advanced and sophisticated today why is the Indian security establishment’s response the same as it has always been?

Because it’s the Indian Security Establishment?

Daylight CASOs, reactionary operations, static positions, large scale flooding of units area ‘domination’

Because the “Indian Security Establishment” #1 protocol is for a peaceful solution with pakistan lmao. Did you ever forget that Salman Kurshid literally told the Army General Bikram Singh back in 2012 to lower his voice over the beheading?

Forget Afghan if it makes you guys happy, what about Northern Ireland? That has more parallels with JK at this point- were the SAS going around in daylight patrol to contacts? The IRA had a heavy bounty on any SAS operator for a reason- they were the only ones they feared

Lmao Wireless intercepts of militants had bounties on both RR, SF, and COIN officers. In 1997, there was a muslim major in the kumaon regiment whose family received literal death threats because he had eliminated 10 hardcore militants in 2 operations (with 0 cas to own troops).

We’ve all seen that PAFF video where they are systemically dismantling an entire Para ‘SF’ squad in the broad daylight. How anyone can defend this nonsense is beyond me

Point to someone who is defending this please. And we did not see any entire video. The Kandi Op video in may of 2023 that you are talking about, hardly any action was properly shown on the PAFF side.

And before you say this is what they are asked to do BS- you think modi/doval are on the phone issuing orders to brigades and companies? Politicians give mandates- it is firmly up to the ‘professionals’ how they execute

No one blames modi or doval for the piss poor performance of a para squad in an operation lmao. Everyone, including me, have blamed the generals for not prioritizing NVGs, not having correct intel (indian humint networks are currently shattered in J&K). If you don’t have any aerial resources to detect militant locations, ambushes with severe casualties are bound to happen.

People blame modi for taking a passive stance against both Pakistan and China. The army works for modi/indian government, not vice versa. The reality is if that the Indian Government pushed for a more aggressive policy with Pakistan and China (like they did in the 60s/70s), the army would follow suit (like they also did in the 60s/70s).

 

[abingdonboy]

Here i think your understanding of things are not correct imo

Modi or Doval dont look after such petty affairs.

The pressure comes from DGMO or COAS who put pressure on the Corp Commander who is a Lt General.

Lt Gen puts pressure on his Brigade Commander..Either Brigade commander or Let Gen above him decide that the Ghatak or Infantry units are useless in such high class ops and they are only worthy of overpowering a sorrounding enemy and shooting a RL.

So this decision is made to put Para SF.

A lot of pressure is put on the team commander directly from the Brigader or Lt General on radio..

Hello..ya whats the status..how much time..etc etc every few hours.

A Good officer takes the stand but some cannot which leads to casualties.

The op in Pampore is a classic case of such!

The young officer is dead and the higher ups are celebrities…reminds me of a cartoon where on one side General is having a whiskey with certificates on the wall and old parents of a matyred soldier are looking at the wall with a photo hanging of their son on the other.

During surgical strikes also such pressure was coming on from COAS to Northern Army commander who even told his radio operator to say he is not available for calls…As mentioned in an interview.

This is what I said

Everyone below the civilians is a security ‘professional’ empowered and responsible for these matters, most of them with decades of experience in this field

Outcomes matter, everything else is just noise.

If the Indian security establishment after 30+ years of this mess are still employing their ‘special forces’ in this manner that is all you need to know. The individual team on the ground is not the issue it’s how that team ended up in that position.

I’ve been saying this repeatedly- one day in the not too distant future people are going to have to do their actual jobs, be it China, Pakistan, SL, BD or god knows what disaster in India’s interest sphere.

These guys’ inability to be competent at their actual mandate is a real strategic limitation as it means the Indian state has very limited options in the same way as having a fighter shortage in the IAF

Brave men are rare but still relatively easy to find, but if you waste them as generalists what have you actually got? The square root of jack sh!t

Today India has no SOCOM, it has no airborne divisions, it has no real marine infantry combined arms force- just a bunch of guys running around dreaming COMMANDO with bandanas on their heads and potentially a gleaming black Tavor. Well reality always wins

 

[IWIarad11]

Here i think your understanding of things are not correct imo

Modi or Doval dont look after such petty affairs.

The pressure comes from DGMO or COAS who put pressure on the Corp Commander who is a Lt General.

Lt Gen puts pressure on his Brigade Commander..Either Brigade commander or Let Gen above him decide that the Ghatak or Infantry units are useless in such high class ops and they are only worthy of overpowering a sorrounding enemy and shooting a RL.

So this decision is made to put Para SF.

A lot of pressure is put on the team commander directly from the Brigader or Lt General on radio..

Hello..ya whats the status..how much time..etc etc every few hours.

A Good officer takes the stand but some cannot which leads to casualties.

The op in Pampore is a classic case of such!

The young officer is dead and the higher ups are celebrities…reminds me of a cartoon where on one side General is having a whiskey with certificates on the wall and old parents of a matyred soldier are looking at the wall with a photo hanging of their son on the other.

During surgical strikes also such pressure was coming on from COAS to Northern Army commander who even told his radio operator to say he is not available for calls…As mentioned in an interview.

In EDI pampore capt mahajan and his team was sent in just after they came back from a 72 h long op. Capt Mahajan took as many preventive measures as he could; fired on the walls with ubgls to make holes for snipers, etc. He had trained in CQB with seal team 5. But a top down approach was denied - heli was available but not given. NSG was stationed but not called in. But not a single hostage lost their lives. Hell even the son of Hizbul's founder was rescued. The corps commander of that time now writes books and does sympathy farming for his beloved lost soldiers on SM.

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

sf doesn't conduct ops at their own will

Poetically Accurate descruption of the things that happen. Same was the case in kandi, all of the soldiers had a promising career but were pushed into action in haste. No the intel wasn't botched... it was the systematic pressure/ hastyness of higher ups and that fucked that op up.

View: https://x.com/psychewizard/status/1863476009586004249?s=46

 

[abingdonboy]

.

People blame modi for taking a passive stance against both Pakistan and China. The army works for modi/indian government, not vice versa. The reality is if that the Indian Government pushed for a more aggressive policy with Pakistan and China (like they did in the 60s/70s), the army would follow suit (like they also did in the 60s/70s).

At this point the politicians don’t have a choice- they are sat on a house of cards, they cannot afford a IPKF scale debacle where India is shown as all bark and no bite.

For a long time I pondered why with all these heavy stats and conventional heft India was so passive to even its (strength wise) inferiors but when you realise the answer it all makes sense

At least right now they can pretend to have some level of deterrence and dry powder, if they expose that the emperor has no clothes they have opened up Pandora’s box

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

In EDI pampore capt mahajan and his team was sent in just after they came back from a 72 h long op. Capt Mahajan took as many preventive measures as he could; fired on the walls with ubgls to make holes for snipers, etc. He had trained in CQB with seal team 5. But a top down approach was denied - heli was available but not given. NSG was stationed but not called in. But not a single hostage lost their lives. Hell even the son of Hizbul's founder was rescued. The corps commander of that time now writes books and does sympathy farming for his beloved lost soldiers on SM.

I know buddy and i know of many more such ops but….